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Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

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Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

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Old 07-31-2007, 08:34 PM
  #1  
kid chuckles
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Default Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

If so what was the experience like I tried and was told that I had to exhaust all other types of insurance I had and if they declined then I had to get a denial letter from them and send it in. In the meantime the guy's car I stuck my motor thru would just have to deal with it until I had all of that done and still don't know if the AMA ins. would have done anything. My Home Owners paid the 1800.00 body shop bill. I know some folks don't have home owners what do you do then?
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:49 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

I had to use it once about 3 years ago due to a mishap at the flying field that removed a piece of my third finger on the right hand. It was a terrible experience, (dealing with the AMA). I had to do the letter thing as you describe. The only time they will pay anything is if it isn't covered by your insurance. Anyhow, they assured me they would cover the emergency room costs. They didn't. The hospital reported me to the credit bureau. The only blimish on my credit report. They gave me a song and dance about how they'd just changed insurance providers and my case had "gotten lost" in the shuffle. It took over a year and a half to get everything straightened out on my credit report and they took the same amount to pay the bill. The only reason I still belong to the AMA is so I can go to other fields and participate. I've since taken out supplemental insurance so I'll never have to deal with them again. In short, I wouldn't wish that nightmare upon anyone. Best of luck.
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:18 AM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

You should re-read the entire AMA documents starting with the safety code. If you didn't know this information, then you prolly don't know much of the other important information. The AMA makes gathering information that you are looking for on their website easy, it's categoried under the type of questions you are asking. My advice is to start there, then come back here.
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Old 08-01-2007, 11:37 AM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

My advice is to start there, then come back here.
Canned response... I guess good advice tho...if you read enough there you might ascertain what kind of accident you can have and plan for it much better.[X(] Maybe let your lawyer give his interpretation also…might not do much good but you might feel better.

Truth of the matter is, there really is no way to be absolutely sure how things will be handled or what may be covered until you need it.

Case 1; One of the modelers here had a fire while charging his batteries while in route to the field. The fire consumed some expensive stuff before it could be put out. I told him that AMA insurance had provisions for such incidents. He contacted AMA and received some fine help and got a lot his damages taken care of.

Case 2; A little while later, maybe a month or so, another modeler here had exactly the same thing happen to him... charging batteries while in route to the field...fire consumed some expensive stuff. I gave him the same advice... and also relayed the experience of the other modeler had with the AMA. Boy, was I confident that I was giving some good advice now… The AMA would do nothing for him.


Both modelers were surprised that the AMA even had such provisions. The two modelers did not know each other as they belong to two different clubs. Two totally different cases…

These two cases were almost identical, but two totally different results. I guess it depends on the mood of whoever initiates the case within the AMA.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:27 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

What were the differences in the cases that caused the one not to be paid?
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:11 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

ORIGINAL: BobFE

What were the differences in the cases that caused the one not to be paid?
One incident happened in a blue Ford Ranger pickup bed and the other happened in a green Ford F150 pickup bed.


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Old 08-01-2007, 05:02 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

I think my homeowners would cover such an accident. If so, AMA would be secondary. that might be the difference between the two incidents.
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:08 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

AMA paid to have me stitched up a few times with no questions asked. Of course, this was years ago before they were supplimental only. Home owners will probably cover me now for any proiblems, but in an age of $4,000,000 spilled coffee lawsuits having that supplimental insurance makes me feel pretty secure.
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:02 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

the ama is a bunch of crooks
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:26 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?


ORIGINAL: chadstinson

the ama is a bunch of crooks

Then you need to call the sherriff, bear witness and have them thrown in jail..........Or was this just an uninformed opinion?????

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Old 08-01-2007, 09:58 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

It didn't happen to me personnaly but, it happened to my room mate so I sort of had a front row seat to it all. To include wittnessing the event and reading all correspondence.

Circa 1974 my roomie had an Ugly Stik 60 with which he punched a hole in the verticle stab of one of Uncle Sam's C-130's. Being a barracks rat he had no insurance of any kind. The AMA response was Uncle Sam is self insured so they get to cover it all. Some 60k if memory serves. And yes, we had permission to fly where we were flying. At least until the accident!

Would I ever try to use AMA insurance? I doubt I'd ever bother to give them the time of day let alone notify them!

The Mule
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Old 08-01-2007, 11:12 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

From what im reading here the AMA insurance cant be depended, on but then again
they have a mostly capative customer base so there is no real incentive to pay
all claims after all there is little one can do if they dont pay up.

The AMA insurance seems to be kind of like title insurance that you are forced to buy
when you purchase a home but very rarely do they pay up.
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Old 08-02-2007, 06:31 AM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

They way AMA liability insurance works is this .....

1) Any other insurance you have, most likely homeowners, is primary. It pays first. This keeps the cost of your membership down because the insurance company charges AMA not for primary coverge but for secondary coverage. Almost everyone has Homeowners or Condo or Tenant coverage that already protects against this stuff (read: you are already paying for the insurance so why have the AMA pay again and pass that cost on to you through the membership fee).

2) The AMA pays the next $250,000 out of their pocket. This is really the "deductible" on AMA insurance. This keeps the cost of your membership down, as the insurance company gives a further discount for the deductible. Since most claims don't get this big, that really means that the members are paying for most claims, which is why the AMA wants to make sure you have gone to your Homeowners or other policy first. I don't know about you, but I want the AMA to do this as it keeps the membership costs down.

3) If you have a significant claim that uses up your homeowners policyand costs your fellow flyers $250,000, then the AMA policy kicks in for another $2.5 million. Believe me, if you have a big claim, you will be extremely thankful that the AMA shows up with that money, rather than you having to liquidate your personal assets or paying some structured settlement for the rest of your life.

The AMA sees from 5-10 claims a month on average.
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Old 08-03-2007, 03:00 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

They gave me a song and dance about how they'd just changed insurance providers and my case had "gotten lost" in the shuffle.
The AMA sees from 5-10 claims a month on average.
Wow they only get 5-10 a month and still loose track of the claims. Seems like an organization I really want to join. Quick where do I sign up.

Almost everyone has Homeowners or Condo or Tenant coverage that already protects against this stuff
Most people who rent do not have renters insurance (http://www.iii.org/media/facts/statsbyissue/homeowners/). So if I rent and can't afford renters insurance I am maybe covered under the AMA. As long as they accept my claim and don't lose the paper work. Now comes the part where people say if you can't afford insurance how can you afford to fly? Ah the elitist mentality of the AMA. Flying does not have to be expensive, a good example is SPAD. Then again some AMA clubs won't allow SPAD on their fields.
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:45 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

They just had a change in personnel at the AMA to handle claims ... that could be the reason things got messed up. The AMA is not perfect, and my guess is, neither are you.

If you have no tenants coverage, then the AMA (read: membership) will likely pay your claim, as there is no primary policy.

I have been in the insurance business for 35 years and am familiar with the AMA insurance and claims processes. I think overall, based on what I have seen on the job, they do a pretty good job. As I said, they aren't perfect.

Also, not sure where you can go buy $2.75 million in liability coverage and a magazine for the price of the annual membership. That is definitely a good deal.
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Old 08-03-2007, 06:25 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

if your a hard working, law abiding citizen of this country, forget about it. their not paying. remember 45 million illegal aliens are counting on you.
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Old 08-03-2007, 06:29 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

Duplicate post
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Old 08-03-2007, 06:32 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?


ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield


ORIGINAL: ToyDestroyer

Almost everyone has Homeowners or Condo or Tenant coverage that already protects against this stuff
Most people who rent do not have renters insurance (http://www.iii.org/media/facts/statsbyissue/homeowners/). So if I rent and can't afford renters insurance I am maybe covered under the AMA.

Yes you are, and the rest of us pay for it through our dues. [>:]


As long as they accept my claim and don't lose the paper work. Now comes the part where people say if you can't afford insurance how can you afford to fly? Ah the elitist mentality of the AMA.

An now comes the mentality that cannot set priorities, take no responsibility and let others pay for it.

Flying does not have to be expensive, a good example is SPAD. Then again some AMA clubs won't allow SPAD on their fields.

Name just one that doesn't allow SPAD on their fields or we put this one in the BS file. [:'(]
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Old 08-03-2007, 06:33 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?


ORIGINAL: pilott28

They just had a change in personnel at the AMA to handle claims ... that could be . The AMA is not perfect, and my guess is, neither are you.
<snip>
I very much doubt that the personnel change is "the reason things got messed up." Having Ilona Maine respond to my inquiries a couple of months ago was vastly more satisfying that trying to get any useful information out of her predecessor. AMA has made a big upgrade in member service provided by that dept.

Abel
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Old 08-03-2007, 09:32 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?


ORIGINAL: abel_pranger


ORIGINAL: pilott28

They just had a change in personnel at the AMA to handle claims ... that could be . The AMA is not perfect, and my guess is, neither are you.
<snip>
I very much doubt that the personnel change is "the reason things got messed up." Having Ilona Maine respond to my inquiries a couple of months ago was vastly more satisfying that trying to get any useful information out of her predecessor. AMA has made a big upgrade in member service provided by that dept.

Abel

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but Carl was a principal in the claims process and when he retired, it left a hole. Not that it can't be filled, but I'm sure there was some impact. I certainly see it because I sit on the insurance committee and I'm not seeing some of the reports and data I used to.

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Old 08-03-2007, 10:18 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?


ORIGINAL: pilott28

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but Carl was a principal in the claims process and when he retired, it left a hole. Not that it can't be filled, but I'm sure there was some impact. I certainly see it because I sit on the insurance committee and I'm not seeing some of the reports and data I used to.
Keith-

Carl was around since dirt, and I don't doubt he was knowledgeable and capable when it came to providing information of the sort you miss, which is primarily ex post facto stuff. Getting anything out him before a liability incident occurred was another story. He wouldn't respond to "hypothetical" situations, and of course when evaluating the worth of an insurance policy before the need arises to file a claim, all such queries tend to the hypothetical. He had little regard for the intelligence of the membership, keeping the insurance policy close for many years, because we dummys wouldn't understand it. I guess we have different perspectives, i.e., from the supply vs. the demand side. As a hoi polloi member, my view is obviously from the demand side. From that POV and the bold presumption that customer service counts for something in AMA management, AMA Special Services is performing much better today than it did during his tenure.

BTW, good on you for your committee assignment. Your chairman seems to have the kind of leadership qualities that AMA sorely needs and has too long been deficient in.

Abel

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Old 08-05-2007, 07:30 AM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

Not long ago I recalled hearing a story of a insurance claim that was denied by the home owners policy because they don't cover aircraft accidents. That you need full scale aircraft insurance. Now before you start jumpping up and down that these are model planes, stop and take a breath! These are no longer model planes. The FAA only has two classes of planes in the sky for more than two years.And we fall under the FAA. There are no Model Planes, UAV, RPV, Rockets, Gliders,etc. theres only manned or unmanned period! Now the type of plane is annotated on the paper work. But this has left insurance companies a way out and they will take it!Not to get into the whole mess the question was asked who the Pilot in contol was? Then they pointed out some text that eliminaated them from any claim.Just like flood insurance!
Today most home owners do not reallize that there dog isn't covered if it bites the Mailman, till it does! I just found out that the insurance companies have a list of dogs by bread and type if yours is one of them you can either be dennied insurance or you cost will increase by more than twice. if you just have a dog its more than if you don't!
Just look at what happened in the Katrina night mare. One block of 20 homes was destroyed ans 19 homes were flood dammaged one wasn't. WHAT! ya it was wind and they didn't pay. Good news is it was a Congessman home and he's doing somthing about it. Just keep all this in mind as we continue to be scewed.
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Old 08-05-2007, 09:17 AM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?





The unfortunate reality is that AMA’s self insured exposure has the effect to naturally make them adverse to any claim made by a member. The AMA has an obligation to not pay a claim if any of the evidence can be shown that the claim is less than bust proof.

One of the best methods to disallow a claim is to point to safety code or club rule infractions. Club rules are a great source for the basis to disallow a claim and thereby leave an injured party without coverage. AMA enjoys quite a shed due to the club rules that most clubs relish and naively impose.

In our system, AMA and/or its representatives will likely take a position that is not necessarily in the best interest of an injured party, especially if that injured party is a member. You may very well find the AMA or its representatives testifying as expert witness against you if you are hurt. There is indeed at least one example here in this forum that demonstrates that fact quite well.
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Old 08-05-2007, 06:12 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger


ORIGINAL: pilott28

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but Carl was a principal in the claims process and when he retired, it left a hole. Not that it can't be filled, but I'm sure there was some impact. I certainly see it because I sit on the insurance committee and I'm not seeing some of the reports and data I used to.
Keith-

Carl was around since dirt, and I don't doubt he was knowledgeable and capable when it came to providing information of the sort you miss, which is primarily ex post facto stuff. Getting anything out him before a liability incident occurred was another story. He wouldn't respond to "hypothetical" situations, and of course when evaluating the worth of an insurance policy before the need arises to file a claim, all such queries tend to the hypothetical. He had little regard for the intelligence of the membership, keeping the insurance policy close for many years, because we dummys wouldn't understand it. I guess we have different perspectives, i.e., from the supply vs. the demand side. As a hoi polloi member, my view is obviously from the demand side. From that POV and the bold presumption that customer service counts for something in AMA management, AMA Special Services is performing much better today than it did during his tenure.

BTW, good on you for your committee assignment. Your chairman seems to have the kind of leadership qualities that AMA sorely needs and has too long been deficient in.

Abel

There must have been something more here. Carl was always very open to me ... long before I was even on the insurance committee and long before he even knew who I was, I had some questions and he was responsive and even sent me a full copy of the insurance policy. I never had a personal claim so I didn't have to rely on him for service, but we had many coversations about hypotheticals and he was always cooperative with me. You must have done something to piss him off .

Dave M. is doing a great job as chair of the committee ... Dave B. has some strong opinions but is very sharp on insurance issues too. They are starting to populate the IC with insurance professionals, which will bode well for the quality of recommendations to the EC in the future.
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Old 08-05-2007, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: Has anyone actually used the AMA Insurance?


ORIGINAL: stinky

Not long ago I recalled hearing a story of a insurance claim that was denied by the home owners policy because they don't cover aircraft accidents. That you need full scale aircraft insurance. Now before you start jumpping up and down that these are model planes, stop and take a breath! These are no longer model planes. The FAA only has two classes of planes in the sky for more than two years.And we fall under the FAA. There are no Model Planes, UAV, RPV, Rockets, Gliders,etc. theres only manned or unmanned period! Now the type of plane is annotated on the paper work. But this has left insurance companies a way out and they will take it!Not to get into the whole mess the question was asked who the Pilot in contol was? Then they pointed out some text that eliminaated them from any claim.Just like flood insurance!
Today most home owners do not reallize that there dog isn't covered if it bites the Mailman, till it does! I just found out that the insurance companies have a list of dogs by bread and type if yours is one of them you can either be dennied insurance or you cost will increase by more than twice. if you just have a dog its more than if you don't!
Just look at what happened in the Katrina night mare. One block of 20 homes was destroyed ans 19 homes were flood dammaged one wasn't. WHAT! ya it was wind and they didn't pay. Good news is it was a Congessman home and he's doing somthing about it. Just keep all this in mind as we continue to be scewed.
Virtually all insurance policies have an "aircraft" exclusion. This is to make sure that any risks associated with flying airplanes are covered and paid for under an aircraft owners policy. A number of years ago, the Insurance Services Office, an insurance industry standards organization, suggested some additonal wording to the exclusion that eliminated models from the definition of "aircraft". Most insurance companies have adopted this language.

Look at your homeowners policy under Section II, Liability. Find the exclusions section, the aircraft exclusion and check to see if this wording referencing modes is part of the policy. Then check the definitions section to see if it is there. If not, I would recommend you get a letter from your insurance agent stating that liability from flying models is covered under your homeowners. If it is not, I would suggest you look elsewhere for homeowners coverage.

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