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Even My devious mind never thought this!

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Old 12-10-2007, 02:30 PM
  #1  
Hossfly
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Default Even My devious mind never thought this!

This idea was recently brought to my attention. I was taken back a bit because even my devious conspiracy mind never thought about it. Maybe the subjects have not thought about it? So I will be waiting for the words of wisdom from the main-man with the words to circle the wagons around this topic, and inform me on all the twists, tangents, etc. that will be sure to be presented.

NOW THIS IS A "WHAT IF" kind of post and has no factual or otherwise basis. Just a WHAT-IF! [sm=idea.gif]

Please feel free to give yours.

As you are aware RCU has been purchased by Hearst Publications for something like 20 million U.S. Yankee $$$

Just what could a computer group like RCU management do with that kind of money?

Could they perhaps establish an organization for RC modelers, based on the EAA operation, where the front end is a profit making establishment for income to management and a couple NFPs in the background in which to hide a lot of assets?
In addition all the items now furnished by AMA could be included. IMO, a great potential for those with the means to do so.

Someone has been thinking and he doesn't live in New York, or Texas.
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:51 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

Would that conceptual RC Organization become the fabled Competition of AMA?

Could run on the cheap, with their background in internet service they dont need a $mil red print publication, or a lot of physical presense/overhead in cold places. Call up the Hartford for mass insurance with the classic Self Insured deductable... could have quite low dues....

Would be a good time to give it a whack, in concept,
now that the AMA ParkFlyer clubs are going to be hitting up landlords and the old guard clubs may be renegotiating for dual AMA club use of land. Why not throw in a 3rd player hitting the landlords/muni's too. Let the landlords see Apples vs Apples of the groups asking for land.
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:17 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

Heck, they would already know which troublemakers to not allow in the organization based on their access to information from RCU....[X(]
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:22 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

Hoss why don't you do it? Put together a business plan and call an investor. Sounds like you have it all figured out. The best way to start a company is with someone else's money or organic growth, not your own. Plus they are staying on board with Hearst with full time jobs, so it doesn't sound like they'll have time for both. BTW the deal was for RCU and Kaango, not just RCU.
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:33 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!


ORIGINAL: Hossfly

<snip>
Could they perhaps establish an organization for RC modelers, based on the EAA operation, where the front end is a profit making establishment for income to management and a couple NFPs in the background in which to hide a lot of assets?
In addition all the items now furnished by AMA could be included. IMO, a great potential for those with the means to do so.
<snip>
Hoss-

With that kind of capitalization, there is no doubt that they could.
The fly in the ointment is this: You don't possess the kind of smarts needed to acquire such means, and then use it for such folly. It would be akin to buying a hobby shop; I chose that example because I'm sure you can appreciate it. There are no cheaper skinflints than RC modelers of the AMA ilk. Most it seems were born into the Depression, and never grew out of it. Buy that bridge instead.

Abel
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:40 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!


ORIGINAL: abel_pranger

There are no cheaper skinflints than RC modelers of the AMA ilk. Most it seems were born into the Depression, and never grew out of it.
Abel
What a laugh, it is not the old timers that are crying about AMA or club dues and moaning about tiered membership and getting an unwanted magazine.
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Old 12-10-2007, 05:45 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

Why would you invest $20mil into something that has a return of near nothing. Instead, go to the Carib, and put that money in some instrument and make a $mil/year or better yet donate AMA $10mil to really help model aviation and take the other $10mil and make 1/2mil a year.

Otherwise, who wants the hassle of running a second AMA after you made $20mil anyway?
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Old 12-10-2007, 05:54 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

The real eye opener is waht kind of ad revenue is RCU gererating to command that kind of sale price. Must be alot of $ in the hobby industry, maybe the RC manufactures and distributors should be providing rc fields and forget AMA?
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Old 12-10-2007, 07:32 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

"The real eye opener is waht kind of ad revenue is RCU gererating to command that kind of sale price. Must be alot of $ in the hobby industry, maybe the RC manufactures and distributors should be providing rc fields and forget AMA?"


That might be interesting. But when you consider they have 53 (unpaid as far as we know) moderators, that keeps that side of the overhead down. I'm sure they have a bundle invested otherwise.

I doubt if they would at this time take on challenging the AMA with another similar organization.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:54 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!


ORIGINAL: STLPilot

Hoss why don't you do it? Put together a business plan and call an investor. Sounds like you have it all figured out. The best way to start a company is with someone else's money or organic growth, not your own. Plus they are staying on board with Hearst with full time jobs, so it doesn't sound like they'll have time for both. BTW the deal was for RCU and Kaango, not just RCU.

Your just mad you didn't think of it first!!! Besides, it gives you something else to argue with people about now.

Ronnie
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:02 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

But when you consider they have 53 (unpaid as far as we know) moderators

Heck, they don't need cheap mexican help when these big internet biz's can get help for free....

I guess most of you fellas (mods) don't mind working for a big biz for free, but I would tell'em to KMA. Pay up or find somebody else.



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Old 12-10-2007, 11:52 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

Ronnie, You think like I like to hear a man think. Just made me go and look in one of my boxes of memntos and there it is. A little booklet with a list of names from 1985.
The cover has a short essay written by Jack London back in 1915. Very good description of a certain type of individual associated with the working forces and management. Somehow I think you would like it. I do.
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:31 AM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

Your just mad you didn't think of it first!!! Besides, it gives you something else to argue with people about now.

Stay Puft
Funny but I think the AMA thought of it first. Emulating a corporation and then changing a tax status isn't exactly rocket science or an original idear.

I'm just wondering why this thread continues to stay open. What does one man's snooping of what others should do with their hard earned "Yankee" dollars have to do with the AMA?

Can we start a fantasy baseball league in this forum too? If we need to keep it on topic we'll use our AMA club names as team names to keep the discussion on topic of the forum. Or how about investment advisory talk and we'll use the AMA to base our equity positioning, wait, that's already being done here, Hoss thought of that first.
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Old 12-11-2007, 08:31 AM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

Just remember STL, there is a difference between hard earned dollars an ill-gotten dollars.......


Ronnie



Edit nothin special, just trying to keep up with stl on edit #'s
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Old 12-11-2007, 08:38 AM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

I just hope your not assuming that the people that run this board are ill-gotten. I just have a feeling that thread thread is going to spiraling down a very personal journey ... seems to be starting right about now. I give it 5 more posts max till it's closed, I just happen to bring my crystal ball to the office today. Make your peace while you can.
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:07 AM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!


ORIGINAL: STLPilot

I'm just wondering why this thread continues to stay open.
This thread is allowed to stay open for one simple fact. If somebody else starts up an organization that would compete with the AMA it most certainly is a subject that involves the AMA, and discussing it here is allowed.


I just have a feeling that thread thread is going to spiraling down a very personal journey
I'm counting on our membership to keep this from happening. For those that want to try and cause it to spiral out of control.... well, I'll deal with them if/when that happens.

Ken
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:24 AM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!


ORIGINAL: STLPilot

I just hope your not assuming that the people that run this board are ill-gotten. I just have a feeling that thread thread is going to spiraling down a very personal journey ... seems to be starting right about now. I give it 5 more posts max till it's closed, I just happen to bring my crystal ball to the office today. Make your peace while you can.

LOL...STL, I am not speaking of anybody that runs this board, your the one that is assuming.

I have nothing at all against any mods here. I do think that they are getting screwed by doing their job here for a large company for nothing though.

I HAVE noticed that most threads that get shut down usually have your posts in them....


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Old 12-11-2007, 09:32 AM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

ORIGINAL: RCKen


ORIGINAL: STLPilot

I'm just wondering why this thread continues to stay open.
This thread is allowed to stay open for one simple fact. If somebody else starts up an organization that would compete with the AMA it most certainly is a subject that involves the AMA, and discussing it here is allowed.


I just have a feeling that thread thread is going to spiraling down a very personal journey
I'm counting on our membership to keep this from happening. For those that want to try and cause it to spiral out of control.... well, I'll deal with them if/when that happens.

Ken
Sorry I don't mean to diss a mod publically, but I'm sorry, you are mistaken. The forum topic is the AMA, not membership organizations that serve aeromodelers. I understand when you create a forum call "ARF's" that is a very broad subject, but this forum is specific to the AMA. But hey I've had enough run in's with you guys to throw one back at ya.


I have nothing at all against any mods here. I do think that they are getting screwed by doing their job here for a large company for nothing though.
Right you have nothing against people that want to "work" for free. You ever notice that there are a few moslty male "jobs" out there that grown men want to contribute their lives too, I guess for their own self preserved reasons. Maybe it's for the status symbol? Maybe it's because they want to feel important. You know auxiliary firefighters, auxiliary police, lobbyists, soccer coaches, pro-bono attorneys, RCU mods.

No you don't have a problem with them, you just think they are getting screwed by the owners of this board. Only a few more posts to go!
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Old 12-11-2007, 01:44 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

Why would you invest $20mil into something that has a return of near nothing. Instead, go to the Carib, and put that money in some instrument and make a $mil/year or better yet donate AMA $10mil to really help model aviation and take the other $10mil and make 1/2mil a year.

Otherwise, who wants the hassle of running a second AMA after you made $20mil anyway?
Lets keep the concept straight:

From Post#1:
Could they perhaps establish an organization for RC modelers, based on the EAA operation, where the front end is a profit making establishment for income to management and a couple NFPs in the background in which to hide a lot of assets?
Who said they will get a return of near nothing?
Why would you assume that? Why wouldnt THEY run their next venture with empire growth like their last? Profit taken each year from RCU was probably not in scale with the $20mil just for handing over the deed & keeping their jobs. Why not apply that business plan to the AMA Competitor RC Org.

They could very easily step into the bidding for urban parks market that the AMA Parkie tier is grasping for. They could easily over insure & under dues that Urban Parkie Market in a drive to be more appealing to municipalities, and front the concept that public lands should be accessable to all groups that meet whatever insurance reqs the city puts up. They could easily be very much directly competeing AMA in that Urban Parkie market with URCO(UniversalRC.Org) SelfInsured & Hartford backed insurance .

They could focus on the bleading edge, rather than embracingt he past.
Their internet talents for mass net appeal could very well open up new Clan Based competition & will refer to cutting ribbon as Fragging. Gather up the youth from their Xbox & PSIII couches & put the sticks of a foamie in their hands. How do they reach these kids.... uh... the youth driven internet gaming sites. Those game devoted sites, the Clan sites, the cheat sites... all would love a few bucks more in baner adds for flying UniversalRC.org foamies.

How many banner ads does the AMA currently have at internet Shooter Game sites?
How much live webcast of events does AMA do?
How many yeas back is the AMA in exploiting the internet to cheaply provide service & content?
.... here is a hint, we get a column from the execs rather than a 1~3 minute vid streamed by Flash.

Why wouldnt THEY at URCO do all that & more to grow an AMA Competition empire & go public in a few years. We haerd all about how AMA isnt a monopoly, yet now we hear how even guys with $20mil cant really compete with a $10mil org?



Anyway,
URCO could indeed take on AMA head on in the Urban & Heli market... like the 2mil+ parkies out there... rather than trying to draw FreeFlight & Rubber away from AMA.



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Old 12-11-2007, 05:14 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

KE-

You make some good points. Frankly, I think the RCU guys or TheHobbyGuy or most any independent enterprise has a better chance of making a go of a PF organization than AMA does. Seems clear from the discussion here and in other groups that AMA has to overcome opposition from within before having a fighting chance, as well as a "too much baggage" image amongst the target market. So far the AMA PF program seems to be selling insurance, a quarterly magazine and discount coupons.

The secondary personal insurance has a limit not much above what most HO policies provide. The landowner's coverage hasn't been disclosed AFAIK. May not matter in civilized places like Texas that have placed limits on landowner liability when they have made their property available to model airplane hobbyists. I'd like to see AMA emulate the Texas club that pushed their state politicos to put that in the law books for the benefit all modelers, 'regular' and PF. Probably not going to happen, when insurance to cover that liability is the core product of AMA.

A quarterly magazine with a publication lead time like MA means any news will be 5-6 months old before it hits the street. That is eons to people that fly electrics, PF and others. Wonder what content it will have that can augment current material on-line.

Discount coupons? Who doesn't push them?

I think it is going to take much more than trying to convince the PFs they need the insurance, and the added fluff. At least half the existing members would drop AMA if they didn't have somebody telling them they must have it to gain admittance to the scarce facilities needed to accommodate their activity. Accommodations for PFs aren't (yet) scarce enough for that plan to work.

Maybe that 'something more needed' is in the program To Be Announced. We'll see. I think AMA needs the PFs to remain viable. But.........do the PFs need AMA?

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Old 12-12-2007, 09:08 AM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

I would imagine that some of these days somebody with a lot of $$$ will give the AMA a run for their money. If a lot of pf'ers start showing interest in this program, somebody will take notice an the race will be on.

Right now, I don't believe its going to go over as big as expected. Young people nowdays don't seem to be near as responsible as they were back in the 40's-70's. And whats bad, is a lot of it is our own fault.


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Old 12-12-2007, 09:26 AM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

Which story of his are you talking about?


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Old 12-12-2007, 09:45 AM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!


ORIGINAL: The Toolman

Which story of his are you talking about?

Ronnie
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Old 12-12-2007, 04:04 PM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!


ORIGINAL: Hossfly

<<snip>>

Could they perhaps establish an organization for RC modelers, based on the EAA operation, where the front end is a profit making establishment for income to management and a couple NFPs in the background in which to hide a lot of assets?
In addition all the items now furnished by AMA could be included. IMO, a great potential for those with the means to do so.

Someone has been thinking and he doesn't live in New York, or Texas.
Already proven to be a money losing proposition. Sport Flyers anyone!
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Old 12-13-2007, 02:00 AM
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Default RE: Even My devious mind never thought this!

Jerry-
While brevity is great in some places,
I dont quite understand you entire position with that short but sweet post.

Are you saying
a) THESE GUYS cant compete with the AMA, even with $20mil initial + whatever captitol they may care to raise
or
b) NOBODY EVER can compete with the AMA

Cause if competing with AMA needs something other than what THESE GUYS have
could you let us know what that is. Such as hiring an Operations Director with model aviation experience or some other hired hands for specifics.

And of course, the B side if A isnt how you feel:
If nobody ever could compete with the AMA,
does that make the AMA a Monopoly in your opinion?
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