A new year and a new AMA Forum.
01-01-2008, 11:18 PM
#1
A new year and a new AMA Forum.
Over the last few months the Administration and Staff of RCU have tried many ways of trying to clean up this forum and stop the outright attacks that have been going on in here. Unfortunately none of our efforts have been successful. As the new year is a time for many people to make changes in their life, so shall it be here on RCU. With the New Year ringing in we feel that it's time for a new attitude to be ushered into this forum.
There is a small group of people that regularly come to this forum and do nothing but attack each other. And recent posts in several different threads are a perfect example of what is going on. I’ve watched this forum for the last 6 months and now it’s my opinion that there are people in this forum that like to argue just for the sake of the argument. It’s incredible how the simplest topics can spin out of control and result in a knock-down-drag-out fight. I’ve seen grown men act like a bunch of second graders on the schoolyard bickering with each other. It’s really incredible what goes on here.
The troublemakers in this thread don’t fall into any category other than “troublemakerâ€. The ones that are causing the problems are both Pro and Anti AMA, so that’s not the issue. The problem is that there is a group of members that will cause problems, no matter what the argument. It’s rare that there is a discussion in this forum that doesn’t result an all out battle, many have resulted in the threads being removed or locked.
This forum is provided by RCU for the discussion of AMA matters. RCU intended it to be a tool to help the AMA improve and better serve it’s members, but as it stands now this forum is more a liability to the AMA than an asset. In the time that I have been moderating this forum I have received many PM’s from members who have told me that they would like to participate in this forum, or have questions they would like to ask, but are afraid to in fear that they may be attack by the pack of hounds that prowl this forum right now. What good does that do for the AMA? I have spoken with AMA officers that have said that they are afraid to participate in this forum because of the attacks and antics that goes on in here. What good does that do?
I feel that the AMA Forum on RCU can be a great asset to the AMA; it’s members, and the members of RCU. I feel that this forum could be a great tool that helps shape the AMA into an organization that can grow and accommodate the many rapid changes that are going on within this hobby. I feel that this forum could be a great tool to help new AMA members find their way through the many programs and benefits offered by the AMA. I’ve spent quite a bit of time talking with the administration of RCU (Marc and Nathan) about this, and they agree that this forum holds a lot potential for good. I’ve also spoken to the new AMA President Dave Mathewson about this as well, and we both agree that this forum could be a great thing. But it’s not going to get there in its current state.
So, what are we going to do about it? A little while back I posted guidelines as to how this forum would operate. This worked a little bit, but not like I had hoped it would. I was hoping that the members causing the problems would see this and correct their actions, but I was mistaken here. So, this leaves me in a bind as to what to do. Since I’ve already posted what RCU expects of the members it doesn’t me with many options of where to go next. I spent some time talking with RCU’s Administrator (Nathan) this weekend and I’ve discussed this with him. After talking with Nathan here’s what we decided is going to happen in this forum. You can rest assured that Nathan totally agrees with what we need to do here and backs this policy. And here is what is going to happen.
All of the crap stop right here, and right now. I don’t need to go into all the little details about what I mean by “crapâ€, because I know full well that everybody here knows what I am talking about. Every member that uses this forum needs to make a decision right now, they are either going to be part of the solution or they are going to be part of the problem. If you want to be part of the solution then I applaud you and welcome your help in cleaning up this forum. But if you are part of the problem, then things are not going to be fun. The Administrator and I agree that if you are part of the problems here then RCU may very well be better off without you. There has always been a bit of leniency given to rules that were broken in this forum, and that is part of why the situation has gotten so bad in here. The troublemakers knew they could get away with a lot because of this leniency. But that ends now. The rules of RCU will be enforced, period.
For those who don’t know what the rules state, I suggest that they spend some time reviewing the rules as there will be no slack given. They can be found here:
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_377662/anchors_377662/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#377662]RCU Community Rules[/link]
As to the rules, and what will be moderated there are a few things that I want to clear up.
[ul][*]Negative comments about the AMA will not be removed. There is nothing in the rules of RCU that states that bad things about an organization can’t be talked about. No group, club, or organization is perfect and they all have problems. The AMA is no different. There are problems with the AMA, and that is the fact of the matter. But problems will never be solved unless they are first talked about. In fact, that is one of the things that this forum is here for. To provide a venue for solving problems and issues and for making the AMA stronger. [*]Personal attacks on any member for any reason will not be tolerated. Every member, no matter what their opinions are needs to be treated with the same respect that you want to be treated. Many times on the Internet people will act differently because they are sitting behind a computer screen. These kind of actions and posts will not be tolerated.[*]There are a few of the troublemakers that know exactly where “the line†is and will stop just short of it, and not ever really break any rules yet still stir up lots of trouble. That ends right now. I’ve been watching this forum long enough to know exactly who you are and there will be zero tolerance for this kind of behavior. If I feel that you are posting to just cause problems the post is going to be removed.[*]It is not the moderator’s job to verify the accuracy of information posted here on RCU. If somebody posts false information please don’t expect me to remove it. If somebody has posted something that isn’t correct then you should post the correct information. If a discussion arises over this then it needs to be conducted in a civil manner. If a fight breaks out everybody involved will be dealt with.[*] PM's will be treated exactly the same as posts in the open forums. If members are attacked through PM's the attacker will be dealt with in the same manner as if they did it in the open forums. The basic rule is "Be nice". Sorry if that sounds sappy, but that's what needs to happen more often around here.[*]Please don’t hesitate to send me a PM if you want to discuss any of this. As I have said, I welcome all the help I can get in cleaning this mess up. Also, if you feel that I have done something incorrectly please feel free to ask me. I’m human just like everybody else, and I’m prone to make the occasional mistake. When they are pointed out I will gladly correct the situation if the facts are on your side. There are many examples of actions I have reversed after it was pointed out to me. So please feel free to let me know if you feel I made a mistake.[*]And lastly, contrary to what some here may think, I am not power hungry. When I first came to this forum I tried to keep a hands off policy with as little moderation as possible simply because I don’t like having to do things like that. But I’m left with little choice now. The people participating in this forum that are causing the problems are incapable of policing themselves and I am going to have to do it for them. I wish that this wasn’t the case, but unfortunately it is. If any member feels that I am acting outside of my realm as a Community Moderator here on RCU they are more than welcome to contact Nathan about this. But please know that I have discussed these issues at length with both Nathan and Marc.
As I said above, the troublemakers come from both sides of the debates here. Both pro and anti-AMA people are causing the problems. And I have a good idea that everybody that this applies to knows exactly who I am talking about here. If this doesn’t apply to some members I will apologize for having to take these steps, and you have nothing to worry about. But for those troublemakers that are causing the problems, please consider this your last warning. I am sorry that I have to say it in such a manner, but I just don’t know how to get your attention here. In my conversations with Nathan we have decided that the members will either help us fix this problem, or they will be the cause of the problem. If they want to fix it then we are more than happy to get that help and welcome those members. But for those that want to continue to be the problem, then RCU doesn’t need you here. It’s a black or white matter, and other factors such as age, length of AMA membership, length of RCU membership, level of involvement in the hobby, income, skill in the hobby, pro-AMA stance, anti-AMA stance, and any number of other variables just doesn't matter. If you are part of the problem your time on RCU may be very limited.
It’s my sincerest wish that this forum can turn in to the valuable asset that I know it can be. But before that happens there are going to be some changes. I do hope that the people causing the problems can see the error in their ways and start getting along with everybody else. I strongly urge everybody to stop and take a good look at themselves and see if they have been causing problems here, some may not even know they are doing it. And for those that know they are causing problems, shape up or ship out.
And for all those members that want to help make the AMA and this forum a great organization I thank you for your help.
Ken
There is a small group of people that regularly come to this forum and do nothing but attack each other. And recent posts in several different threads are a perfect example of what is going on. I’ve watched this forum for the last 6 months and now it’s my opinion that there are people in this forum that like to argue just for the sake of the argument. It’s incredible how the simplest topics can spin out of control and result in a knock-down-drag-out fight. I’ve seen grown men act like a bunch of second graders on the schoolyard bickering with each other. It’s really incredible what goes on here.
The troublemakers in this thread don’t fall into any category other than “troublemakerâ€. The ones that are causing the problems are both Pro and Anti AMA, so that’s not the issue. The problem is that there is a group of members that will cause problems, no matter what the argument. It’s rare that there is a discussion in this forum that doesn’t result an all out battle, many have resulted in the threads being removed or locked.
This forum is provided by RCU for the discussion of AMA matters. RCU intended it to be a tool to help the AMA improve and better serve it’s members, but as it stands now this forum is more a liability to the AMA than an asset. In the time that I have been moderating this forum I have received many PM’s from members who have told me that they would like to participate in this forum, or have questions they would like to ask, but are afraid to in fear that they may be attack by the pack of hounds that prowl this forum right now. What good does that do for the AMA? I have spoken with AMA officers that have said that they are afraid to participate in this forum because of the attacks and antics that goes on in here. What good does that do?
I feel that the AMA Forum on RCU can be a great asset to the AMA; it’s members, and the members of RCU. I feel that this forum could be a great tool that helps shape the AMA into an organization that can grow and accommodate the many rapid changes that are going on within this hobby. I feel that this forum could be a great tool to help new AMA members find their way through the many programs and benefits offered by the AMA. I’ve spent quite a bit of time talking with the administration of RCU (Marc and Nathan) about this, and they agree that this forum holds a lot potential for good. I’ve also spoken to the new AMA President Dave Mathewson about this as well, and we both agree that this forum could be a great thing. But it’s not going to get there in its current state.
So, what are we going to do about it? A little while back I posted guidelines as to how this forum would operate. This worked a little bit, but not like I had hoped it would. I was hoping that the members causing the problems would see this and correct their actions, but I was mistaken here. So, this leaves me in a bind as to what to do. Since I’ve already posted what RCU expects of the members it doesn’t me with many options of where to go next. I spent some time talking with RCU’s Administrator (Nathan) this weekend and I’ve discussed this with him. After talking with Nathan here’s what we decided is going to happen in this forum. You can rest assured that Nathan totally agrees with what we need to do here and backs this policy. And here is what is going to happen.
All of the crap stop right here, and right now. I don’t need to go into all the little details about what I mean by “crapâ€, because I know full well that everybody here knows what I am talking about. Every member that uses this forum needs to make a decision right now, they are either going to be part of the solution or they are going to be part of the problem. If you want to be part of the solution then I applaud you and welcome your help in cleaning up this forum. But if you are part of the problem, then things are not going to be fun. The Administrator and I agree that if you are part of the problems here then RCU may very well be better off without you. There has always been a bit of leniency given to rules that were broken in this forum, and that is part of why the situation has gotten so bad in here. The troublemakers knew they could get away with a lot because of this leniency. But that ends now. The rules of RCU will be enforced, period.
For those who don’t know what the rules state, I suggest that they spend some time reviewing the rules as there will be no slack given. They can be found here:
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_377662/anchors_377662/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#377662]RCU Community Rules[/link]
As to the rules, and what will be moderated there are a few things that I want to clear up.
[ul][*]Negative comments about the AMA will not be removed. There is nothing in the rules of RCU that states that bad things about an organization can’t be talked about. No group, club, or organization is perfect and they all have problems. The AMA is no different. There are problems with the AMA, and that is the fact of the matter. But problems will never be solved unless they are first talked about. In fact, that is one of the things that this forum is here for. To provide a venue for solving problems and issues and for making the AMA stronger. [*]Personal attacks on any member for any reason will not be tolerated. Every member, no matter what their opinions are needs to be treated with the same respect that you want to be treated. Many times on the Internet people will act differently because they are sitting behind a computer screen. These kind of actions and posts will not be tolerated.[*]There are a few of the troublemakers that know exactly where “the line†is and will stop just short of it, and not ever really break any rules yet still stir up lots of trouble. That ends right now. I’ve been watching this forum long enough to know exactly who you are and there will be zero tolerance for this kind of behavior. If I feel that you are posting to just cause problems the post is going to be removed.[*]It is not the moderator’s job to verify the accuracy of information posted here on RCU. If somebody posts false information please don’t expect me to remove it. If somebody has posted something that isn’t correct then you should post the correct information. If a discussion arises over this then it needs to be conducted in a civil manner. If a fight breaks out everybody involved will be dealt with.[*] PM's will be treated exactly the same as posts in the open forums. If members are attacked through PM's the attacker will be dealt with in the same manner as if they did it in the open forums. The basic rule is "Be nice". Sorry if that sounds sappy, but that's what needs to happen more often around here.[*]Please don’t hesitate to send me a PM if you want to discuss any of this. As I have said, I welcome all the help I can get in cleaning this mess up. Also, if you feel that I have done something incorrectly please feel free to ask me. I’m human just like everybody else, and I’m prone to make the occasional mistake. When they are pointed out I will gladly correct the situation if the facts are on your side. There are many examples of actions I have reversed after it was pointed out to me. So please feel free to let me know if you feel I made a mistake.[*]And lastly, contrary to what some here may think, I am not power hungry. When I first came to this forum I tried to keep a hands off policy with as little moderation as possible simply because I don’t like having to do things like that. But I’m left with little choice now. The people participating in this forum that are causing the problems are incapable of policing themselves and I am going to have to do it for them. I wish that this wasn’t the case, but unfortunately it is. If any member feels that I am acting outside of my realm as a Community Moderator here on RCU they are more than welcome to contact Nathan about this. But please know that I have discussed these issues at length with both Nathan and Marc.
As I said above, the troublemakers come from both sides of the debates here. Both pro and anti-AMA people are causing the problems. And I have a good idea that everybody that this applies to knows exactly who I am talking about here. If this doesn’t apply to some members I will apologize for having to take these steps, and you have nothing to worry about. But for those troublemakers that are causing the problems, please consider this your last warning. I am sorry that I have to say it in such a manner, but I just don’t know how to get your attention here. In my conversations with Nathan we have decided that the members will either help us fix this problem, or they will be the cause of the problem. If they want to fix it then we are more than happy to get that help and welcome those members. But for those that want to continue to be the problem, then RCU doesn’t need you here. It’s a black or white matter, and other factors such as age, length of AMA membership, length of RCU membership, level of involvement in the hobby, income, skill in the hobby, pro-AMA stance, anti-AMA stance, and any number of other variables just doesn't matter. If you are part of the problem your time on RCU may be very limited.
It’s my sincerest wish that this forum can turn in to the valuable asset that I know it can be. But before that happens there are going to be some changes. I do hope that the people causing the problems can see the error in their ways and start getting along with everybody else. I strongly urge everybody to stop and take a good look at themselves and see if they have been causing problems here, some may not even know they are doing it. And for those that know they are causing problems, shape up or ship out.
And for all those members that want to help make the AMA and this forum a great organization I thank you for your help.
Ken
01-01-2008, 11:23 PM
#2
RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
Well said Ken! I stopped reading the AMA forum for the very reasons you stated, I just couldn't take it any longer! Hopefully with the above guidelines, things will change. Nice job on the post!
FB
FB
01-02-2008, 12:10 PM
#6
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
RC Ken:
I'm with you 100 % on this one. No need for all this animosity. There is no reason why different views on AMA topics cannot be discussed without getting downright nasty. If I see this forum cleaning itself up in the near future, I and others might join in on the discussions, but not as they are now.
I'm with you 100 % on this one. No need for all this animosity. There is no reason why different views on AMA topics cannot be discussed without getting downright nasty. If I see this forum cleaning itself up in the near future, I and others might join in on the discussions, but not as they are now.
01-02-2008, 07:54 PM
#8
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RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
Ken
This sounds great, I have just about quit posting here because of certain individuals. I don't need the sneaky chickens**t pm's I get from one individual either.
I'm thinking about going back to the other parts of this site where there's not a village idiot constantly causing trouble on every thread.
Ronnie
This sounds great, I have just about quit posting here because of certain individuals. I don't need the sneaky chickens**t pm's I get from one individual either.
I'm thinking about going back to the other parts of this site where there's not a village idiot constantly causing trouble on every thread.
Ronnie
01-03-2008, 10:06 AM
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RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
Ken, I want to thank you for taking a tough stand. Your words are so true.
As I see it everybody starts the New Year with a clean slate. From this point, if I feel a member has posted beyond respectable decorum, I will express that opinion by way of the “REPORT†button.
I invite my fellow lurkers to do the same to help Ken clean house.
As I see it everybody starts the New Year with a clean slate. From this point, if I feel a member has posted beyond respectable decorum, I will express that opinion by way of the “REPORT†button.
I invite my fellow lurkers to do the same to help Ken clean house.
01-03-2008, 10:32 AM
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RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
Good plan Ken!
My father told me when i was very young, (You dont learn anything while you are talking, you have to listen to learn)
It stands to good reason, that when people argue, there is not much, if anything learned or accomplished.
Im here to learn. So ill shut up now
My father told me when i was very young, (You dont learn anything while you are talking, you have to listen to learn)
It stands to good reason, that when people argue, there is not much, if anything learned or accomplished.
Im here to learn. So ill shut up now
01-05-2008, 11:27 AM
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RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
As my post count would reflect, I do not often post in this or other forums. I have ONLY posted or replied when I had a strong enough conviction or could no longer stand the direction things were taking. Any who know of my forum activities will know that I have always tried to be fair and objective and have often been praised for my posts.
That said - I MUST also ring in with my appreciation for Ken's attempt to bring the AMA forum back to its positive roots. I use the word positive, because I am intelligent enough to know that civil discussion, debate, or even argument can produce POSITIVE results. I am not one that believes, "can't we all just get along" is properly understood or projected. In reality - no we can't. It is our differences that make us individuals and our individuality that allows us to grow - as individuals and as a society. It is our tolerance, understanding, and respect that make us true human beings. It is our right and ability to disagree that produces change.
The AMA is not one person, one face, or one voice. AMA is represented by EACH and EVER one of its members - whether they post here or not.
KEN - good luck, I sincerely hope this succeeds. If it does, my post count might even break 1000 someday and I will no longer hesitate to direct new hearts and minds to this forum.
-K
That said - I MUST also ring in with my appreciation for Ken's attempt to bring the AMA forum back to its positive roots. I use the word positive, because I am intelligent enough to know that civil discussion, debate, or even argument can produce POSITIVE results. I am not one that believes, "can't we all just get along" is properly understood or projected. In reality - no we can't. It is our differences that make us individuals and our individuality that allows us to grow - as individuals and as a society. It is our tolerance, understanding, and respect that make us true human beings. It is our right and ability to disagree that produces change.
The AMA is not one person, one face, or one voice. AMA is represented by EACH and EVER one of its members - whether they post here or not.
KEN - good luck, I sincerely hope this succeeds. If it does, my post count might even break 1000 someday and I will no longer hesitate to direct new hearts and minds to this forum.
-K
01-05-2008, 06:30 PM
#13
RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
Ken
I had an idea I noticed that some of the topics of discussion can get rather long
here and I think that may cause some of the meaning in a thread to be lost.
And also it may cause some of the info to be repeated, how about something
along the line of a three post per topic rule maybe six if you are replying to a
post that is directed at you, otherwise we could take it to the PM section.
I had an idea I noticed that some of the topics of discussion can get rather long
here and I think that may cause some of the meaning in a thread to be lost.
And also it may cause some of the info to be repeated, how about something
along the line of a three post per topic rule maybe six if you are replying to a
post that is directed at you, otherwise we could take it to the PM section.
01-05-2008, 09:48 PM
#14
RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
Ira,
While that may be a good idea, policing it would be next to impossible. I think that once we get some people to realize that these forums aren't their own little battlegrounds the thread will take care of themselves. I have already seen people start to post in this forum that have never posted here before, or haven't posted in a long time. I think that part of the reason the threads wander so far off topic is because the cronic bickerers in here have to find new and novel ways to attack each other.
Ken
While that may be a good idea, policing it would be next to impossible. I think that once we get some people to realize that these forums aren't their own little battlegrounds the thread will take care of themselves. I have already seen people start to post in this forum that have never posted here before, or haven't posted in a long time. I think that part of the reason the threads wander so far off topic is because the cronic bickerers in here have to find new and novel ways to attack each other.
Ken
01-11-2008, 07:56 PM
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RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
I have been an AMA member for 30 years and have been in many clubs ( moved around while in the military). I support AMA and enjoy reading MA each month. I hope this Forum becomes a place to discuss and exchange ideas.
Rusty
AMA Leader Member
Rusty
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02-14-2008, 01:37 PM
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RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
its sounds unfair, however , I beleive that the Moderator has the authority to Block any and each member that Violates the ground rules. try it. you can't lose much. dick
02-14-2008, 04:42 PM
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RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
Nice work Ken, you have to stay out front as best you can. I will admit that it is kind of sad when you come to a forum just to watch the train wreck, and that is what happens here alot.
Stick by your pistolas!
Stick by your pistolas!
02-15-2008, 04:41 AM
#19
RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
This is a first looking in here. Sorry to here of all the discord. I appreciated reading the initial post by Ken, and glad not to have seen the apparent ugliness that may have proceeded earlier. Looking foreward to seeing substantive contributions here.
03-25-2009, 07:22 AM
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RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
I'd say it was a great idea, but it apparently hasn't worked. Thank goodness for the ability to block the posts of the half dozen or so posters who drag the threads down and off topic. In the short time I've been following this forum, every active thread has degraded to personal attacks. I have a hard time understanding why people can't accept the fact that everyone has a right to their own opinion. There are nicer ways to say that 'I don't agree with you and here's why' or 'I think I understand where you're coming from but here's why I feel differently'. Don't make it personal.
One note, even though I block some posters, I do periodically unblock hoping that they're being less attacking. To date, they haven't.
One note, even though I block some posters, I do periodically unblock hoping that they're being less attacking. To date, they haven't.
03-26-2009, 06:49 PM
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RE: A new year and a new AMA Forum.
ORIGINAL: skipperwayne
I'd say it was a great idea, but it apparently hasn't worked. Thank goodness for the ability to block the posts of the half dozen or so posters who drag the threads down and off topic. In the short time I've been following this forum, every active thread has degraded to personal attacks. I have a hard time understanding why people can't accept the fact that everyone has a right to their own opinion. There are nicer ways to say that 'I don't agree with you and here's why' or 'I think I understand where you're coming from but here's why I feel differently'. Don't make it personal.
One note, even though I block some posters, I do periodically unblock hoping that they're being less attacking. To date, they haven't.
I'd say it was a great idea, but it apparently hasn't worked. Thank goodness for the ability to block the posts of the half dozen or so posters who drag the threads down and off topic. In the short time I've been following this forum, every active thread has degraded to personal attacks. I have a hard time understanding why people can't accept the fact that everyone has a right to their own opinion. There are nicer ways to say that 'I don't agree with you and here's why' or 'I think I understand where you're coming from but here's why I feel differently'. Don't make it personal.
One note, even though I block some posters, I do periodically unblock hoping that they're being less attacking. To date, they haven't.
Frank