Live Wire

Every one has a Gripe what is yours.
what do you think AMA is and what should they do.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

OK you asked,

My biggest gripe is the AMA Discussions forum on RCU that is the scene of excessive, repetitive, pointless and boring quote feature usage that goes on here incessantly and often to the useless end of quotes from the prior posters entire text.

Gentlemen if you are going to quote then great but at least have the civility to edit to the key point.

John

Live Wire

OK I have one lets see what can be done ine a civil way. There are more than one or two that think that this is the greatest hobby -sport in the UNIVERSE What can we do to change it.
If it get out of hand may he with the big hand drop the hammer.

rsallen13

My Feedback: (1)

That maybe true , but the questions was are the biggest gripes with the AMA and not the RCU AMA Board.


Mine it the total disconnect of the AMA Executive board and the loss of focus as to what the AMA was designed to do. Its major focus is no longer modeling but liability control as a insurance provider and a land lord in Indiana.

nascarjoe

My question is what could AMA do to change things for the better?
The RC industry continues to struggle, ( I know, because I own a hobby shop and have many industry contacts) flying fields continue to go the way of housing and business developments and golf courses and for the most part, beginners still have a difficult time finding someone to spend much, if any time with them. In particular, what powers does those at AMA headquarters have to solve these monumental problems?

IMHO, logically, there is little to nothing that they can do.

nascarjoe

Hossfly

>>>>>>>>>>>
My question is what could AMA do to change things for the better?
The RC industry continues to struggle, ( I know, because I own a hobby shop and have many industry contacts) flying fields continue to go the way of housing and business developments and golf courses and for the most part, beginners still have a difficult time finding someone to spend much, if any time with them. In particular, what powers does those at AMA headquarters have to solve these monumental problems?

IMHO, logically, there is little to nothing that they can do.

nascarjoe

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

I would love to see the AMA put some PR on TV, in the Sunday paper, etc.......that is IF we want the sport to grow.

Jerry

nascarjoe

This is what totally baffles me. What I mean is, I'm new to all of this and my very objective perspective of AMA is that as of yet, I haven't seen much indication that AMA does want to grow.
I've read many posts from members either complaining or praising AMA, but what I never seem to read are responses from anyone at AMA headquarters. I sure would like to hear what they would have to say. AMA spent millions for new building, so why couldn't they spend some of those millions on TV ads? Keep in mind that I'm not bashing AMA, just trying to make heads or tails out of the whole thing.

I also cannot see why anyone would praise an organization that doesn't/cannot do much, if anything for the beginner, who is the future of the sport and organization. On the other hand, AMA does have the Sign 3 - Fly Free memberhip program, but it appears that too few have taken advantage of this free membership campaign. IMHO, it appears that members are the ones who don't want the sport to grow, if they did, AMA's membership numbers should be double the 170,000, if only every member signed up at least one new member. How hard could that be? Maybe this is a bit too simplistic, but if the members wanted the hobby to grow, I can't see why it can't be done. After all, those who sign up new members don't have to train them, just point to the many eager to help instructors most if not all clubs claim to have.

nascarjoe

easysport

My Feedback: (2)

Well it seems to me that as a sophmore flyer that thier is a lack of qualified trainers for newbies. Something needs to be done to encourage the old guys to spend time to give back to the sport that they have enjoyed for so many years. Mabey a free membership for trainers that can document thier work to AMA and ocasional gifts by raffle pais for by the millionares at headquarters to those that would spend the time to help us new guys keep from crashing our planes. There are many retired flyers who could benifit from this and with a little rcognition and gifts they may well do it.

bobfox

My Feedback: (1)

Lot's of interesting discussion. Here's my $.02 worth:

The industry- Producing, distributing and selling RC products is a tough business. In my opinion (I'm a financial analyst by day), you have to be either a very specialized (and high cost) producer (AKA Violett, BTE, etc) that addresses a niche market or a very low cost, high volume producer that addresses the majority of the market. In either event, you have to address modelers' needs in a quality way or you're out. I can think of several middle of the road producers (Goldberg, Sig) that didn't do either and apparently are having some difficulties even though their quality is excellent. LHS's are a different ball game. You simply can't be competitive unless you are large. A typical LHS with $8,000 of overhead (Salaries, inventory carrying costs, rent, ads, phones, electricity) needs $40,000 a month just to break even at 20% markup! That's about $2,000 per day and that get's no profit for your risk! I suspect that the few remaining LHS are running on a small percentage of loyal customers who don't mind paying a bit more and on a handful of newbies who need help and don't mind paying for it (Or are too dumb to know it).

By the way, I think that producers do an absolutely wonderful job of providing innovative and quality products at a reasonable cost.
The new ARF's are of great quality. Radios and servos are better and more reliable than ever. Engines are very reliable- all at much lower costs than ten years ago.

The typical modeler is somewhat guilty (Myself included) of fostering the environment that we're in. Hobby dollars come last (Well, for some anyway) and they are dear- we want to get the most we can, so we shop where we get the best bang. That's not the LHS, in most cases.

Now to the AMA.

I imagine Sam Walton starting his now famous chain of stores. He decides that the best strategic plan is to spend $10M on a Supergiantcossolialmonster Wal-Mart in Muncie Indiana. People from all over the U.S. would drive thousands of miles just for the privledge of shopping there. His business would grow inconcievably fast because the centerpiece of his business was simply so impressive that it would awe customers. They would have no other choice. K-Mart would have loved that scenario. As we know, old Sam has a lot more smarts than that and did things differently.

We (AMA) spent millions of dollars on the "National" site in Muncie, are continuing to spend significant dollars maintaining and upgrading it and we honestly think that we will influence people outside the hobby with it. Earth to AMA: It's not going to happen, just like it wouldn't have happened for Sam, even with quality merchandise, good service and low prices. The people don't come to you, you have to go to them. Of all of the people in the U.S. now, possibly 220 million (???), perhaps 1 million may visit the Muncie site in the next ten years- perhaps .5%. (This is just a guess, but I can't be too far off- How many people ever get to Indiana in their entire lifetime, much less Muncie, much less the AMA site there?)

Simply put, we got a "pffft" and not a "bang" for our buck with Muncie, if the real goal was to grow the hobby. Since AMA leadership is not dumb (Probably not as smart as Sam, but still logical and reasonable), I must conclude that the stated goal was growth of the hobby but the real goal was that the leadership wanted a showcase national site and was looking for a reason to justify it.

If you really believe that Muncie was money well spent in growing the hobby, consider this experiment: Randomnly survey people who are not already knowledgeable of RC. Ask them about Muncie. What percentage would you expect to answer that they had visited the AMA site or even heard of it?

It's like a corporation building a fancy showcase headquarters (EG Enron, Worldcom, AT&T, etc). It doesn't help the business much, if at all. It sure helps the executives' egos.

If anyone from AMA reads this, I'd appreciate a counterpoint.

Bob

EDallas

Interesting thread, but as so many do, it has gotten way out of focus. I have thoughts on a number of the points expressed, but
to articulate them here would involve a long response indeed.
To couple three of the thoughts presented, golf, TV advertising and a membership of 170K, the USGA only advertises when they are sponsoring a nationally televised event. Then the sponsor of the TV coverage pays the bill. What do members get from USGA membership? A rule book and a decal. when you look at an organization that has 170K members, that makes R/C flying an extremely esoteric hobby. I am a ham and there are about 450K just in the US, and most folks have never even met one.
Growing the sport is a double edged sword. Many members feel threatened by growth as they think the flying field will become too crowded. Others feel that if we don't encourage and bring the youth along, the hobby will die. There is nothing unique about these feelings. They persist in all esoteric groupings.

AQ500

Being a member of an AMA air show team I spend hundreds a year travelling to different flying fields. I also spend a lot of money dedicated to things pertaining to the show team. I have introduced many people to the AMA over the years who have joined. My main gripe is that the AMA still requires dues from people that spend money and time to promote them. They give a discount, but I can get better deals than their discount.

I also do not like the double standard of rule enforcement at the many events I participate in. I have been uninvited to fly at a field, by the AVP, because I pointed out the double standard.

This is my last year in the AMA, I've already paid my dues for this year. Our field is not an AMA field and I have a healthy home owner's policy. The increase in the yearly dues and the fact I'm not going to travel back east to see the million dollar building helped me in my decision.

Live Wire

I think They are starting to listen, Know if we could get them involved thing could happen. MA June 03 Pres. col!!! he's only a day late and a $ well!

Live Wire

To bad , Let it be the norm . The newbie needs no help!!! What we need is something that 90% of the flyers will never use. Sorry I don't think so. We need help with instructors, Instruction, and advancement of aviation. Classes in building , and design, keep the youth involved . Do not feed them a line of how cheep , or inexpensive the hobby is because it is not cheep!!!!!! You get what you pay for and most shops don't care as long as they get their $$$$$$$$$$. Others look out for their customers and try to make ends meet . Most Newbies have no Idea what it costs to get in to RC !! A plane and a Radio will not Cut It. Old timers will carry you just so far then you have to walk on youdr own.

full throttle

Just had a friend do some research on the net to find if the AMA has ever paid a claim from an accident by an AMA member. It appears that the AMA has never paid one claim to any member since its existence. My friend may not have dug deep enough, but so far he has not had any luck finding where the AMA has stood by its member(s) when in need. For some reason the homeowners insurance of the member ends up paying for the accident even when all T's are crossed and I's are dotted . If the AMA has not paid any claims and has all this money laying around, then why not dividend a portion to its patrons, and run the AMA like a company, not a weekend resort. IMHO . BTW, if anyone has been assited financially from the AMA insurance coverage, let me know...thanks

(I also belong to the prestigious AMA)

bobfox

My Feedback: (1)

The insurance portion of AMA's finances is relatively minimal.

Look at the 2001 financials and open your eyes.

AMA has cash of $5.3M
AMA has investments of $3.4M
AMA has property of $8.9M

AMA owes $4.2M to bondholders plus a piddling amount to others.

So if AMA paid off their bonds, there would be approximately $3.5M left in cash plus $8.9M in property.

Gee, where did all that money come from?

Certainly some of it was earned by investing excess funds over the years. Certainly, some came from gifts/donations/endowments. A bit came from revenue (Trade shows, AMA items, Etc.) The mag is losing money on a fully allocated basis.

The rest came from AMA collecting more than AMA spent. In fact, the money AMA invested also came from collecting more than AMA spent. So the vast majority of the money held by AMA and the amount that was invested in Muncie came from .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. . MEMBERS!


How can anyone really believe AMA is in a financial crisis? This balance sheet looks as good as most successful businesses.

Bob

Live Wire

If every thing is so great WHY IS INSURANCE SECONDARY! and Muncie is so big? The amounts they are spending and investing does not help the little guy. Look at the numbers big money does not slide down hill. Thousands means nothing when there Million in the pot!!!!!!

J_R

The reserves that the AMA has built up has taken place over a LOT of years. At one point, the AMA self insured. The lesson learned from that was that substantial reserves need to be held. In another post, I posted a letter from Dave Brown, stating, in part, that the land in Muncie was purchased to protect some of those assets. (I think it is a little revisionist, but, he makes his point).

Very recently, it appeared that the AMA might have to self insure again. Fortunately, that did not come to pass this year.

Over the last several years, the reserve has not grown. Expenses have risen more than projected. The dues increase was an attempt to stop that trend. The larger than expected increase in insurance costs have, once again, created a 'no growth' scenario.

The AMA is not an insurance company, and those that try to analyze it as one are never going to be happy. If you are looking for the AMA to bleed the reserves to balance the budget, it is not going to happen. Like those that went through the depression of the 1930's, the AMA learned their lesson. Keeping reserves is not something that is likely to change. If it becomes necessary, in the future, to self insure, the reserves MUST be available.

I have never been to Muncie, and probably will never go. That being said, the cost of doing business in Muncie is probably a lot less than most places in the US.

Should the AMA spend $3-5 on the flying site at Muncie,excluding the HQ building and Museum, of your dues, each year? That's another question. Again, something that is not likely to change.

JR

Live Wire

Has any one read and under stood the insurance policy , under stand it , know what will and will not cover. Most people think that it covers every thing. It don't believe me , Have been a member for many years . AMA is not what it started to be, changes have taken place Big $$$$$$$$$$
I have no quam with dues it is the misrepresentation of what is being done and how. Who A!@s are the covering it sure isn't the sun day FLYER.

bobfox

My Feedback: (1)

J.R.

Go to the AMA site and look at expenses. Page 15 of the financials.

Insurance expenses are about $539K of a total expense of $5.3M, close to 10% of the total. The amount actually declined from 2000 to 2001 (2002 is not yet available)

The need for $3.5M in cash to cover insurance costs of $500K annually would mean that we'd have 7 years of expense reserved. Certainly, insurance probably has increased so the annual expenses will be more now but the reserves are still excessive.

I really don't believe that AMA won't ever be denied insurance. The deductible may be higher than we want, the premiums may also be higher, but there will be some company in the business that will cover us. (I was controller/risk manager for a stockholder transfer services company. and I negotiated insurance for many millions of dollars of risk coverage. Every few years, we would be warned that our coverage was in jeopardy and wouldn't be renewed (We were one of a few non-bank stock transfer agents, so we were "outlaws" in that industry, implying our risk was higher). It never happened. (Similar to your LHS saying this is his last kit and they quit making them, so you better buy it)

I realize that AMA leadership wants reserves maximized to ensure the success of the organization, but perhaps we are going overboard, or perhaps there are other reasons for holding these funds (Even perhaps a Muncie expansion).

I'm anxiously awaiting the release of the 2002 statements for two reasons: 1) To see how much the insurance increase was and 2) To see how much other operating expenses increased as a result of Muncie. I'll bet the increase in insurance is less that 20% of the increase in other expenses.

My opinion is that AMA is blowing smoke with insurance. Muncie was (and still is) expensive to build and maintain and that's the real reason for the dues increase. If AMA members support that increase, that's great, but we should have the facts. When the 2002 statements are issued, we'll have more real data, but the 2001 statements fully support my position.

I'm not anti-AMA. I am interesting in understanding the reality of the situation and I don't think that's happening now.

Bob

J_R

bobfox

I suggest that you read these two earlier threads on the subject.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...34&forumid=211

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...78&forumid=211

The larger of the two insurance increases took place in 2003. You may also want to read the Executive Council Meeting minutes over the last couple of years. They are on the AMA page.

JRR