Stickbuilder

When I joined the AMA as a junior member (before Computerized memberships) I wanted to join, so that I could fly my model airplanes in competition. You didn't have to belong to a club way back then, but you really wanted to. Most of us flew Free Flight, and a few flew Control Line. Free Flight fields didn't really exixt, so you used whatever big open area available to trim and fly your model. I was proud to display my AMA number on the wing of my contest planes.

Muncie Indiana was not a place that I had ever heard of. AMA headquarters probably had 2 employees who did everything at the office. The Nationals event moved from one Naval Air Station to another every year, and was manned mostly by volunteer officials.

These days, if you look at the directory for the employees at AMA Headquarters in Muncie (of all places) you will see lots of names and lots of departments.

It would appear that the AMA has now become a Life Support System for these employees. The Executive Committee is given orders by these employees on how to disseminate information to the membership, and in some instances (it has been reported) on how to vote on issues.

It seems to be time to take back our AMA from the, "Hired Help".

I love my AMA, and want it to be what it can be, and used to be. I don't want some hired gun telling me how my AMA will be operated, and what programs I WILL accept.

Bill, AMA 4720

kid chuckles

Well then do something about it. Seems you have experience and all.

Stickbuilder

I don't think that this is something that a single person can actually do something about (except maybe to alert everyone to what appears to be happening). There is power in numbers.

Bill, AMA 4720

Mode One

I'm with you Stick! When I joined (not as long ago as you) I joined because I wanted to become a member of club, which was TCRC in the Twin Cities. Even though all I really wanted to do was join the local club and a part of that process was that I join the AMA, I have always liked the idea I was helping support something in model aviation which was much larger then the individual member. However, as time has gone on, it is also readily apparent the organization has become a bureaucracy and not simply an organization to improve model airplane enthusiasts enjoyment of this hobby and sport.

This forum, here on R/CU, could become a a catalyst and "sounding board" for a movement to change the AMA to better reflect the members desires, if the individuals here using it, could set aside there egos and individual agendas long enough to get this thing going!

Hossfly

KC, Last year Stick did make a STRONG attempt to do a great deal about it. Unfortunately he did not receive the support from this faction of the AMA membership that was needed to make his effort really take hold.

Far too many AMA members simply will not stand up and do what must be done to get change where change is needed. This is an important election year. How many EC members will again run UNOPPOSED. If anyone reading this has a DVP up for election this year and he is unopposed then it is YOUR fault whomever you might be.

Stickbuilder

AMEN!

Bill, AMA 4720

KidEpoxy

I think the 7% return on the AMA Pres ballot last year speaks volumes on the interest of the masses to do anything about anything. Despite what Muncie says, the AMA is 7% members and 93% insurance customers.... and those 93% are as involved with AMA as they are with Allstate/StateFarm/Geico : They dont nominate because they dont vote. Muncie & the AMA are just a place they send a check to once a year for insurance, then ignore for 364days.

PPP will not help, they cannot vote... can they even Nominate?

What is being done by the good ole boys to curb the Good Ole Boy entrenchment?
Perhaps some more closed door meetings will help determine there is no problem. They could finally enact the Un-AMA Activities Taskforce to boot anyone that want to change the way things are done.

Maybe some more Choir Polls, of just the folks that renewed 99% are content or happy with AMA, all the folks that dislike AMA enough to quit dont count. With a 99% approval why change anything.

Maybe they can get all dialog that doesnt paint AMA in a good light stricken from the entire internet. More folks would think AMA is great if opposition voices are silenced.


What can we do to change Muncie?
Heck, Hoss said he couldnt even get a list of the LeaderMembers, just who are we suposed to be nominating? Does the system require you to work your way up in the GoodOleBoy system to get qualified for a position to change that system?
And once some folks do nominate, and that nominee does qualify, that doesnt even mean they will get on the ballot.


Right now, we can say "What has happened?"
What has happened is what those that came before right now allowed to happen.
Preventative Maintainence is easier than fixing it once it broke: AMA broke not too long ago.
Some folks have a history of trying to fight the degradation, some a history of Carry On SSDD.
Some have just joined and get blamed for the what the old guard has let AMA change into.

murocflyer

<<< Frank raises his hand as being in the 7% club >>>

He asks, "So what are we to do?"


Frank

KidEpoxy

I dont know what you are doing,
but I am flying 2lb electrics to save $28 in these non-ballot years.

When it is ballot time again,
I'll lay down the $58 to get my candidates nomination & my vote ignored,
then back to a few years of $29 PPP flying waiting for the next ballot year.

... until we find a prime opportunity for the $20k PROAMA Stealth SeatGrab, but that is a topic for other threads
<PROAMA: Posters RCU Of Absolute Muncie Accountability>

murocflyer

Warning: Off topic question to follow.

KE, you actually dropped down to the PPP membership level? If so, how did the prorate work for you?

Thanks,

Frank

Stickbuilder

Well, since your PPP members won't get to vote, or probably even make nominations, I suppose that we need to build a fire under the mainstream membership, and take back our organization. Muncie needs to be doing what we want them to do, not the other way around. Don't get me wrong, I'm very much pro-AMA, I just don't like the fact that the employees are telling our elected officials what to do (and making it stick).

Who got the little survey from Joyce Hager last year? How many responded? How many responded in the negative? Were the results even considered when the PPP was initiated? What's on the horizon? Anyone wanna make predictions?

Bill

kid chuckles

Sorry you took that wrong Stick I can't seem to work the quote dealy. But that is exactly what i meant YOU seem to have the experience and all to do something. This is a step and make a few more and see who all is with you. I might be. I didn't mean that as Sarcasam but more as Praise that YOU do have experience. And that you may know how to go about changing things. I myself have not a clue as who my DVP is or how to get anything done. I have only been a member for less than a yr. JUNE i think. Sorry man i did not mean anything. Just i suppose should have worded differently. When the guys above ALL agree then you hit the nail on the head. Charlie Cross

Fella's sometimes i might not agree with everything your thinking as I have not been around this sport as long as most of you, but i do respect each and everyone of you. Had it not been for that guys that actually started in this sport long ago there might not be an aviation sport and for that i thank each and everyoned of you. Again not meant to be sarcastic

Stickbuilder

Charlie,

Look in the back pages of your MA magazine. You will find that Jim Rice is your DVP, and from my experience with him, he is very receptive to input from his constituents. He is in Universal City Texas, and his phone number is listed as well.

There is not one thing that one person can accomplish by himself. It will take more of us than those who voted in our presidential election last year to get any attention. Seven percent will get nothing. Seventy percent will be listened to.

Bill, AMA 4720

murocflyer

Bill,

I didn't realize they were "my" PPP members. [sm=confused.gif]

Anyway, I'm all about improvements and helping the cause. My DVP (Bliss T) has been very receptive to ideas and suggestions I have sent forward to him. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction so I can find out what the probelm is and what we need to change so I can get smart on it.

Thanks,

Frank

FERNDALE AIR FORCE

I've just read 2 ama threads, reading between the lines I see a handful of gassers and slimers that want the ama to stick to their planes. Electric planes and younger members are to be met with disdain. They are not of the the true brotherhood. Here is a hard fact, park fliers and lipo power are here to stay.

Tim
AMA 887670

busted2props

My Feedback: (9)

I don't know if this is a common problem or not. This city only allows R/C at our flying field. No park flyers in any city parks only at our flying field. We have a blast! We have foamies, giant scale, gliders, helicopters, control line, sport and yes the little balsa glider. You know, the one you throw and then chase? So, we embrace all types of flying...

With only 7% of the membership voting, it is hard to make changes and get the people in office you want. It is a disgrace for someone to run unopposed. Is this because everyone has his head in the sand, or is it because no one cares? Let's just put it on auto-pilot and it will go where it goes. Nope, change it. I don't like the idea of the ballot being limited to three candidates! I'm sure there are more than 3 overly qualified for the office sought. Load your guns guys!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

That's pretty heavy.

Stickbuilder

VA Flyer,

Perhaps the choice of the word, "Your", was inappropriate, but you are one of the driving forces with this group (even if it's by your own choice). The point is they won't get to vote period. It is patently wrong for our organization to go against the wishes of the membership on any venue. That's what happened last year. It's also wrong for the hired help to tell the elected Executive Committee what not to tell the membership, and it is wrong for the hired help to tell the Executive Committee what must be passed in Executive Session.

If you want to fly Giant Scale model airplanes that are powered by Hamsters in a run wheel, that is your affair. I think that the wall that exists between the electric powered models and the wet powered models has been mostly erected by those who want to fly electric. I don't think it's an issue with those of us who fly wet. Yes, we will poke some fun at you, but we also poke fun at anything that's different. You guys take issue with it, and try to justify what you fly. Just fly what you brung and have fun with it.

It is my honest and firm belief that it is wrong to have two or more different classes of member. Now we have the mainstream member who is allowed to nominate, and is allowed to vote. We also have sub levels within that membership who are expected to become mainstream members. Now we also find a second tier of members who, even though they do not pay as much as a mainstream member, are not allowed to either nominate, or to vote. That is wrong. If rules are to be made that will affect your life, you should have the right to vote on the passage of these rules.

For that reason alone, I have been against a tiered membershp from the beginning. My response to Joyce last year stated the exact same reasons for my being against any tiered membership. How many people want to become second class by their own choice? I don't think that too many will jump on that one. Some frugal members here may try it (if planes of that size and speed are their choice of models). I really don't see all that many park flyers seeing the need to join any organization, or voluntarialy agreeing to follow any rules. The very reason for most of these models being sold in the first place is:1. They are inexpensive. 2. They are easy to transport. 3. They can be flown virtually anywhere without needing to go to a dedicated flying site. 4. There are no rules to have to agree to abide by. I think that most of those who fall into the group that would be called PPP, are one shot wonders. Most of them will become bored with the performance of the typical model that is bought at the big box store, and will soon move on to some other diversion. Yes, there will be the occasional person who's interest is piqued enough to try another model, but I'm afraid that they will be a small minority.

All this has been re-hashed to death here in this forum, but it is not going to go away. The fact remains that the Executive Committee of the AMA made these changes that run counter to the wishes of the responding majority. That is the issue, Plain and Simple.

Bill, AMA 4720

murocflyer

Bill,

I agree, this isn't a debate on the PPP and Open membership.

I would just like to be pointed to where I can read about "the problems" so I can get smart on them and let my DVP know my concerns.

Thanks,

Frank

kid chuckles

Stick thanks for the reply I knew that just did not register with me i guess. What is your idea of sending him so i won't look foolish in a letter or E-Mail.

Stickbuilder

Charlie,

There is no such thing as looking foolish in a letter or an e-mail. Those who are foolish are those who allow the AMA to do whatever it wants without giving any input to the DVP's. Tell him what you really think, and what you would like to see accomplished. Ask for reasonable things, and I think that you will find Jim to be very receptive to this.

Bill, AMA 4720

BillHarris

I think that many of the AMA members are simply along for the ride. Look at the voter turnout this last Presidential election. Pitiful. Here in "Distruct V" we had an AVP who was not looking at the membership's interests and who was largely regarded with uneven enthusiasm, but kept getting re-erected every year. Had he not passed away in office, he likely would still be the AVP here.

In a way, the same situation existed with the AMA President. DB was a good man, but with his tunnel-vision, head in the sand approach, he wasn't altogether up to the new challenges that confront the AMA. As with D5, had DB not retired he'd still be at the helm. In D5 we now have an excellent AVP, just as we now have an excellent President in DM.

It is divisive to look at the hobby in terms of gassers, slimers or electric. I have planes that fly on Hot Air, on Glo Fuel, Gasoline and Electric. They range from 1/4 scale to handlaunch, and I'm the same person no matter what I fly.

--Bill

murocflyer

It appears that Dave M is reversing that "head in the sand" philosophy. From what I seen he has been very responsive to both emails and forum posts. Something I didn't see from the previous president.

Frank

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

So you don't think the employees in Muncie could go find other jobs or something? But even so any company that plans on at least staying in business NEEDS to support the people that show up each day for work. As far as them voting on issues ... well we know this is just more Internet related conspiracies which we see all too much of these days.

The AMA has grew and it has evolved. Now if the people around the AMA i.e. the members, could evolve with it ... then maybe they would have even a better shot of achieving their goals with a combined effort of not just the staff in Muncie, but also the DVP's, EC, AVP's, LM's, members ... and yes even us Internet bloggers.

murocflyer

If anyone can point in the right direction so I can learn of these "problems" mentioned above, I would appreciate it.

I'd love to help if I could.

Thanks,

Frank