papajeff

OK, MEN (actually, in this case it seems that it is appropriate to say; "BOYS".....now you did it......
you, all of you by your words and actions, have unleashed the wrath of "PAPA POWER" and now comes the
well deserved lecture! Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.................Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh! !!!!!!!!!!

It's time to get a grip on reality! We should all thank Greg Hahn for voicing his opinion on the subject of posting
on the modeling Web. He seems to have struck a nerve and has started a spirited discussion, right? He stated
his OPINION and we all know that old saying; "Opinions are like @$$ *^#&$......everyone has one!"

Now, basically, shame on you! Go to your rooms, right now! It's TIME OUT, for all of you! Here is the big
question; "What are we all doing?" We seem to be acting like little children....nanny, nanny, boo..boo!

I think that it is perfectly all right for an adult to, on occassion, act child-like. But, here it seems that a lot
of adults are acting "CHILDISH!" I see argument, criticism, ridicule, hostility and name-calling just because
someone has a different opinion or position on a particular subject. Come on......enough already! This
is our HOBBY....our escape from pressure....our relaxation.....our enjoyment.....our method to regain that
"child-like" wonder (WOW, it really can fly!").....it's our passion!

It's time to agree that it is OK to disagree! It's OK to state that a product or concept is good or bad,
in your opinion. It's OK to have an opinion and post it on any forum at all, as this is America, right?
But, let's do it with some appreciation, tolerance, patients and friendship. Let's learn from each other,
assist each other and help grow our hobby. Come on....you guys! Whatever happened to dignity,
praise, appreciation, friendship????? Let's get it on, brothers! Back to basics. Good over evil!

All right..............you can come out or your rooms and have some dinner. And after dinner, you
can go out and play with your little airplanes and think about what we learned today about
tolerance, understanding and opinions. And remember, Grandpa loves you!

"PAPA POWER"

Stickbuilder

And I suppose that all the mirrors in your home are broken. You just did what you are saying that we did. You call us names, and have a little fit hemmorage that we don't agree with you. Now how much better a person does that make you?

Pappa power my A**!

Bill, AMA 4720

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Yes Bill in regards to Greg Hahn, most were acting childish. Greg not only got the last word, he confirmed exactly what he was talking about by having the people that were against his opinion on the same level and beyond. Every word Papa said and like Greg Hahn said was spot on. Now realize it, improve it and move on.

papajeff

Bill,

Thank you for your opinion, but it seems that you missed the point and were not in the mood for
a humorous, yet sincere, appraisal of the situation from my point of view. My intent was as stated;

"It's time to agree that it is OK to disagree! It's OK to state that a product or concept is good or bad,
in your opinion. It's OK to have an opinion and post it on any forum at all, as this is America, right?
But, let's do it with some appreciation, tolerance, patients and friendship. Let's learn from each other,
assist each other and help grow our hobby. Come on....you guys! Whatever happened to dignity,
praise, appreciation, friendship????? Let's get it on, brothers! Back to basics. Good over evil!"

Regards,

Papa Jeff

The Toolman

Looks like your right close to our ol buddy stl.
Is he a neighbor of yours?


Ronnie

Hypersprint

NO Papa Jeff, I think YOU missed the point.

If you and I want to sit here and discuss our OPINIONS of Ford vs Chevy thats fine and these would in fact be OUR OPINIONS.

BUT, when you tell me that if I drive a Chevy and bad mouth Fords's I am an IDIOT and I have no way to discuss this (as in, it was printed in a magazine) then it is no longer an opinion, you have now stated a FACT as you believe it to be, end of discussion.

JUGFLIER

Papa Jeff,

I for one can see a good laugh now and then and see and appreciate the humor of your post.

Regarding GH's article in MA, I thought it was atrocious. The threats of Futaba, JR, and horizon leaving the hobby because they got their feelings hurt sounds more like the raqmblings of some one out of touch with reality. It sort of reminds me of the threats of a would be playground bully crossed with someone who says,"I amfrom the government, and i am here to help you."

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

"Opinions are like-"!!!!!!!!!!!

papajeff

Observation

"I see argument, criticism, ridicule, hostility and name-calling just because
someone has a different opinion or position on a particular subject. Come on......enough already! This
is our HOBBY....our escape from pressure....our relaxation.....our enjoyment.....our method to regain that
"child-like" wonder (WOW, it really can fly!" .....it's our passion!"


Opinion

"It's time to agree that it is OK to disagree! It's OK to state that a product or concept is good or bad,
in your opinion. It's OK to have an opinion and post it on any forum at all, as this is America, right?
But, let's do it with some appreciation, tolerance, patients and friendship. Let's learn from each other,
assist each other and help grow our hobby."

KidEpoxy

PapaJeff-
Nice infusion of the PapaPower, the thraed could use more posts that bring a chuckle rather than sigh. While I dont stand behind you on your opinion this time, it will be fun reading more of your thread.


Oh, so you did read Hahn''s text.

Hanh had a message, one that has valid debatable support pro & con. Just as you chose an avenue of humorous barb to deliver your message, Hahn chose insult without humor, criticism, suspension of disbelief (mfgs pull out). Hann has set back any real progress on cleaning up the ''net by fortifying his opposition in the ProductCriticism debate by a childish article.

PapaJeff, I believe you would have better communicated the message than Hahn (did), the PapaPower post should have been in MA rather than the namecalling text about Futaba/Horizon/ect pulling out of RC business. In the style of Bill Cosby, have some fun and we might just learn something by the end.

Those are my opinions on your opinion [8D]

Hossfly

"This is our HOBBY ..... .... it''s our passion" Sir, that statement is NOT an observation. That statement is ONLY your OPINION!

What one says, promotes, argues, denies, or P & Ms about on these forums is between that individual and the owners of the forum/s. While I may enjoy the battles, I also recognize the simple "heated discussion atmosphere" and can accept such.

What the AMA hired Staff allowed to be placed in a magazine that I, along with all adult AMA Members, PAY FOR is another thing.
Yes, we pay for the magazine. Advertising does not. That Sir is a FACT that can be readily OBSERVED in the AMA Web site at http://www.modelaircraft.org/Members...tatements.aspx.

The AMA Staff degraded all AMA members, and actually everyone else, that uses these forums along with the Forum Hosts/Owners.
They used my, and all adult AMA members'', investment $$ in the promotion of this SPORT or hobby, whichever you prefer, to degrade those that frequent these forums.

Let AMA''s Staff reap that which they sow! [sm=48_48.gif]

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Good point...I think this Pappa guy must be stl or one of his puppets. Has about the right kind of spin to it.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Once again I want to remind the group here to leave personal comments and insults out of the discussion. You may not agree with each other''s positions, but that''s no reason to attack that person. I''ve already closed down one thread because of this problem. If it continues I may be forced to start administrative actions on any members who attack other members.

Ken

Stickbuilder

Ken,

There is a fine line that differentiates Attacking, and maintenance of a defensive position. When someone comes into this forum and immediately goes on the offensive, we do tend to hold them accountable for their actions. I personally had never heard of this Original poster, prior to this thread, he just came on board with both guns blazing. There is some accountability maintained by the regulars in this forum. I think that this is what was happening. Kind of like protecting one''s turf.

Bill, AMA 4720

papajeff

Ken,

"There is a fine line that differentiates Attacking, and maintenance of a defensive position. When someone comes into this forum and immediately goes on the offensive, we do tend to hold them accountable for their actions. I personally had never heard of this Original poster, prior to this thread, he just came on board with both guns blazing. There is some accountability maintained by the regulars in this forum. I think that this is what was happening. Kind of like protecting one''''s turf."

Bill, AMA 4720
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stickbuilder,

Hey, I sure did not intend to intrude on your forum with my post. I also did not intend to just come on your
turf with guns ablazing and I can see why you, and your regulars, would hold me accountable for my actions.
Thank you for setting me straight........I have learned my lesson! Have a nice day.

Oh, to RCKen.........maybe it's time to go fishing......what do you think???????????????????????

Stickbuilder

Don''t go getting your little feelings hurt here. You made the original post, and were calling us down for our positions regarding the Outside Loop column. You have every right to your opinions, but so do the rest of us. We don''t agree on this. That doesn''t make me right and you wrong, nor does it make you right and me wrong. It is a difference of opinion. If your hide is thin, then this forum will be a very uncomfortable place to visit. We don''t mince many words here, and yes, we are all opinionated. That''s my opinion, and it oughta be yours. If fishing turns you on, or floats your boat, by all means, have at it. I''ll spend my time flying toy airplanes.

Bill, AMA 4720

BillHarris

My opinion: [link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll]troll[/link] .

Bill

HH

I''ve refrained from com commenting at all which obviously makes me better than evreyone!

papajeff

Bill (AMA 4720),

You and your turf-mates still don''t get it. You just made the case for the opposition!
I still see argument, criticism, ridicule, hostility and name-calling just because someone has
a different opinion or position on a particular subject. Now, more than before. So much
for civility.


By the way, here''s another view on the "troll" relate;
"The term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling,
while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion,
even if controversial. The term is often erroneously used to discredit an opposing position,
or its proponent, by argument fallacy ad hominem."

Hossfly

Not really big-daddy. YOU are the one that doesn''t get it. Repeating my above post:
>>>>
What the AMA hired Staff allowed to be placed in a magazine that I, along with all adult AMA Members, PAY FOR is another thing.
Yes, we pay for the magazine. Advertising does not. That Sir is a FACT that can be readily OBSERVED in the AMA Web site at http://www.modelaircraft.org/Members...tatements.aspx.
<<<<

Had the magazine article been prefaced with, "The following article is the opinion of the author, and does not necessarily reflect the opinions of the AMA, Model Aviation, or the associated Staff. Opposing viewpoints will be welcomed" then perhaps it would have been just that, an author''s opinion.
Unfortunately, since no such preface existed, the article was either 1.) The viewpoint of the AMA, MA, and the staff, 2.) the staff was simply too ignorant and pompous to realize the damage they were doing, and/or 3.) a combination of 1.) & 2.)

When the powers that be take something that I have contributed after-tax dollars to support, and use that something to insult me, then I will not sit back and say that power has "....the right to their opinion." That position can be verified by the loss of many yankee $$$ to a certain political party that I have supported for many years until the past couple. [>:]

If someone should come bursting through the door yelling, here where I sit typing, then that someone would be carried out to his final resting place. With your yelling "...boys..." having an avatar that depicts yelling at someone or something, and ridiculing persons as you so do, well big-daddy, you have here run into one brick wall. You blew it and that is my opinion because I use to do such. BTDT and it never gained me one thing. Like me for more years than I care to admit, I used the same shotgun approach and it never got me anything. You may be ''papa'', as I am to 10 wonderful grandchildren, however just a word to you, sonny, you have a lot of growing up to do.

You did say something about going fishing. Enjoy, as I will when this wind subsides so I can get out on the bay. No need for trolling here.

Horrace Cain

The Second Amendment The Original and Best Homeland Security.
Founder and Sustaining Member, NRA Second Amendment Task Force.

KidEpoxy

But Jeff,
I am one of the top despised folks in this forum,
labeled as Anti-AMA and a Hater by the good folks, had someone try to bring Muncie down on me for the horible things I said here (which turns out I didnt say) by folks protecting the AMA.... I even had a psycho internet stalker (AMA/MA wacko) calling folks in my life that dont even read RCU in attempt to harrass me.

And yet I didnt say anything not nice replying to your post... heck, I kinda liked it.
I am all for civil discussion on political (govenment/rule by opinion) topics. That means namecalling, insults, even the stl special of hardly veiled insults need to be left out for any real exchange of ideas to be had. Just being one of Stick''s TurfMates doesnt make me a bad guy < y''all will never know what actually makes me a badguy [sm=pirate.gif] [8D]>

If you cruise thru about 5 or 8 pages of The Great Paintball Debacle, you will see several folks getting all kinds of slurs and plain insults thrown at them... by the folks "defending ama". Or the same in the SteveK thread. It is a recurring theme here in the forum, we say things against a Muncie action or rule/procedure, and they say things against us personally. Hoss can draw insults by merely posting to let folks know there was an EC meeting w/ link to the minutes.

So please note, in your assessment of the bad net behavior, that it comes from both sides.
Even the folks with Hahn that are supposedly against that very behavior.

Also, it seems I once again posted without insulting anyone but the Wacko Internet Stalker.

papajeff

Kid,

Good point and well stated! For the most part, you and I seem to realize that it''s not what you say
........it''s how you say it! There will always be issues, it''s how one deals with them, that counts.
Anger and argumentative behavior never seems to accomplish anything positive. Here''s to future
positive accomplishments that we can make, that will improve the enjoyment of our Hobby. I wish
you well.

kid chuckles

What we can all agree on is Opinions are like @##%@ BUT YOURS STINKS ROFL.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Ok, I think this thread has gone far enough. I'm locking it up.

Ken