Zpat

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Guys,
Our club has run into a problem. We have a guy flying on private property approximately 1 mile from our club field. After having a discussion of all the things that could happen, the rogue flyer decided he didn't want to spend any money to join anything and he was going to continue to fly. Is our only recourse to ban the frequency he is on and what if some of his buddies decide to join him? Have any of you been presented with a similar problem.

Crashem

I'd say your Screwed unless you can buy him out

Live Wire

He will be the one to watch for if his plane goes down . You can bet your A!!!!!!ss that he will be over and after you!
As crashem stated your !!!!!!!!!!

bpu699

My Feedback: (1)

offer him a free membership....

rogwabbit

I'd have to agree offer him a free membership as long as he lets you know when he's using a channel. Maybe setup a little walkietalkie with him so you can ask him if he's flying and what channel.???

Hossfly

AMA says if less than 3 miles, work out a frequency arrangement.
Be *nice* and agree to work with him reference the channel/s he plans to use and same for his buddies.

If he decides not to cooperate, then I could easily think of how to convince him that such an attitude is definitely NOT within his best interest. Can't you?

Play ball but don't be afraid of HARD Ball when it has to be.

Steve Guinn

Gee whiz, you guys could cause that nice fellows plane to crash.


Humph...free membership my butt.

smokingcrater

hard ball won't work in that situation, unlicensed freq's mean he has just as much right to it as you do, and intentionally causing interference (shooting him down) will be your problem. make him mad and he may decide it is time to upgrade radios and get one of the synth radio modules. random freq every time he flies...


I agree with the free membership, half the fun of flying is the bs stories from flying buddies, flying solo 100% of the time isn't always enjoyable.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Gee whiz, he could do the same.

Get a frequency agreement in place.

scottrc

What about all the kids with park flyers nowdays? The issue of rougue flyers seems to be growing at an alarming rate. Only thing I have been doing was having the frequency scanner next to me while flying. What else is there?

Steve Guinn

:stupid: Duh...we know he could do the same. They talked to the person (notice I didn't say gentleman?) and he does not seem to be concerned.
Total lack of respect and consideration for anyone other than himself.

The freq. may be open, but this guy could kill somebody. Take it before the judge if you can't work something out.

xp8103

My Feedback: (16)

You have an organized club with a history in the location you are currently at. I would think that one could make a case for malicious intent on his part because he is flying a mile away from an organized site with the FULL knowledge of the danger he is willfully creating when he does.
Free membership indeed! You might find that more members than you want will start flying with him....
Or maybe THAT'S the idea. Find out where he is and who's permission he has to fly there and start that way.

Ron S

My Feedback: (2)

Personally, I would NOT offer him free membership. Reason why, is what is stopping any of your current members from doing the same - not rejoin your club, fly as a rogue, then whine about a free membership. People can be that way.

I think I would lean toward working a deal where you know what frequency he uses, and let your club know. Then, as suggested, show him there may be benefits he might appreciate in joining your club.

Zpat

My Feedback: (2)

Charges of malicious intent sound like an idea! I wonder if it can be done? I guess that sounds like a probable move.

pinball-RCU

Let's not confuse the issue here. "Kids" with park flyers don't normally use our frequencies. The inexpensive park flyers come with 27 Mhz radios.

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

How often does he fly? If he is flying a lot when there are people at the club, I would probably discuss it like you have, but if you were established as a model field for a long time, that should be precidence and if he shoots someone down, it would be his responcibility to replace the plane and anything else damaged. If he is shot down, it would still be considered his fault, unless you did it on purpose. I wouldn't suggest that.

If he won't work with you to solve the problem, talk to the county or a lawyer and see what comes out. That could be a dangerous thing if he starts shooting people down because he is mad. Hate people like that, but they are everywhere.

Homebrewer

My Feedback: (8)

I hardly call someone who is flying on private property a rogue. I agree he should at least let you know what frequency he is on so an agreement can be worked out. Not everybody wants to join a flying club which requires AMA membership/insurance.

You may wish to get a frequency scanner for your field and also use it to monitor his site and get an idea what channel he uses.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

He is no more malicious than the guys in the club. Rude and inconsiderate maybe, but that is another issue.

He is on his property, and has just as much right to fly as anyone else. Let's not forget, the FCC "owns" the frequencies, not the AMA (Although sometimes we think we do!).

In the "old" days, in order to fly you had to get and FCC liscense. Looks like that may be on the way back with all the conflicts popping up.

I still say get a frequency agreement in place.

abel_pranger

P51B-
Your position and Homebrewer's seem the most level-headed to me. Don't think I would even call the guy rude and inconsiderate based on what what little has been said about him. For all we know the club is run by a real jerk, dues are exorbitant, it's in a toxic waste dump or swamp full of 'gators, etc. Point is, he doesn't want to join the club, and whatever his reasons may be, he doesn't have to.
He doesn't belong to AMA, ergo he doesn't have AMA insurance and the long laundry list of conditions that go with it, including the 3 mile separation thing called out in the Safety Code. IOW, no law or sanction obligates him to observe 3 mi separation, but club members are subject to it by their contract with AMA for insurance. Club members knowingly flying within 3 miles of another flying site without a frequency sharing agreement are in violation of the Safety Code, possibly nullifying their insurance coverage that probably is 99% of the reasons they chartered with AMA to begin with.
HC can talk hardball (he's a hardball sorta guy<G>) , but I think the situation calls for diplomacy. The guys that say offer free membership, or simply give up a frequency to the 'rogue' (that moniker in itself shows an arrogant posture toward him) are on the right track toward reaching accord. He appears to have every right to do what he is doing, according to any agency that has any domain over him. The club is already on thin ice with their own organization/insurer by not suspending operations until some agreement is reached. Not what anyone wants to hear, but that's the real world. The world where AMA grants to each sanctioned club exclusive rights to over 28 square miles of ' R/C frequencies space' isn't the real one.

Abel

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

Zpat,

The question is this: Have you been getting hit by his transmitter? If not, how did you become aware he was out there?

Did you invite the guy to fly as a guest at your field, so he could enjoy a little comradrie, or did you dwell on the bad things?

Ya catch more flies with honey......

CR

Crashem

abel_pranger and P51B,

Bring up good points.

I'd be carefull of the insurance situation.

Seems to me that if your not carefull with this person one call to AMA headquarters and you club charter could be pulled. Like the "Hammer field" thread. This could become more of a problem for you then him.

Gordo-ProBro

We've been here in our club last year. Tried to be nice, first offered free membership and to pay for his AMA, then we set up a freq agreement. He said he'd come put up a pin, then we could call him to see if we could use that channel. Didn't happen. We lost several planes, and he lost all of his. Showed up one day with a TOASTED NEW GP PT-19. We've never heard from him again, but who knows?

Fact: you have no more right to use a channel than him, regardless of your established history. There are no such provisions in ANY law or regulation.

Fact: Unless you can PROVE he brought out his tx for the EXCLUSIVE purpose of harming your property (plane), there is no "malicious intent ".

Final thought: any legal action will most likely cost you much more in the area of future bad blood than any other option, and will bring bad attention to the hobby. TRY to meet him half way, or for that matter beg, plead, and throw money (membership) at him. And ignore the "What if other members do that?" stuff, how silly.

Zpat

My Feedback: (2)

The problem has been resolved! Got all worked up for nothing. The facts were that a young man had obtained the property owners permission to fly. Originally he was indifferent toward any problems that may have been encountered due to his ignorance of radio frequency interference. The club president approached the property owner and the father of the young man and discussed the ramifications of an uncontrolled frequency so close to a club field with some large expensive model aircraft and some 150 mph plus speedsters. It's scary enough with frequency control! The young man had decided to fly at another place that wouldn't interfere with club operations. He was invited to join the AMA and the club numerous times but declined. End of story.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Glad to hear it is resolved!

Steve Guinn

DITTO! Very happy to hear it.

To all those who disagreed with me.....