abel_pranger

From minutes of Apr 9 EC meeting:

"e. National League of Cities: AMA will attend the National League of Cities convention where 4,000 elected officials from across the U.S. will meet, and the National Recreation and Parks Association meeting. This is an effort to introduce local officials to the AMA prior to clubs appearing before city and park boards, city councils, etc. requesting assistance in finding flying sites."

Abel

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

sounds like 4000 folks that will not ever be very responsive to modeling in their areas, forevermore.

Hossfly

[X(]

Now, now Mongo! Do you want a reputation like mine?

However there are so many terms, phrases and derivatives of ideas being used in AMA now, that I have originated in my running for AMA office the past 12 or so years, that I wish I had copyrighted them.

Unfortunately they aren't able to get the results that I would.

In reality, is it not well past the time that AMA lets people know about the many advantages and wonderful values our sport/hobby has to offer?

Of course, Mongo, your point is well taken and you present a downright scary thought. OTOH we have so many scary things happening today, I wonder if anything will survive this November.

EDITED: are for ar: Guess I am praticing text messages!

KidEpoxy

This activity has the potential to do some real good for the model flying public.

But it has the probability of doing some real harm to the model flying public.... so that AMA can benefit.

I would really love a rep from The Hartford to attend as well,
to prevent single brand association with the insurance hype that we all know is going to be pitched. Heck, lets get a rep from Futaba and AirHogs in there too, to tell the parks people that these toys are not killing machines that require a membership to become safe, as some insurance companies will paint them to be.

Will the AMA have an easier pitch if the AirHogs guy is flying a 6oz foamie inside the meeting... bumping into people without maiming them?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

..

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Well said and I certainly agree. Unfortunately I saw this coming...the real reason for the PPP device and it is now being put to use. I think we are now seeing the beginning of the end of model aviation as it unfolds…at least the death of the hobby as we have known it.

I guess we should just wait and see how stl explains how the hobby is worthwhile only with AMA.org

http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama/whatisama.aspx

BTW Just look and see what AMA’s mission statement says now…it tells us what AMA is…the mission is AMA…The simple and pure advancement of the hobby is long gone. Now the thrust is self preservation of itself, the AMA…and that is the main factor in its inevitable demise….unfortunately it will not be understood by most…what a real shame.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Yup ... here we go again. RCU Members ask the AMA to step up to the plate and spread the word, well they do and this time with a national body of parks department (aka gov't agencies) and woola .... pessimism and hypocrisy at it's finest. Same thread, different day. I mean wasn't Hoss talking about approching gov't agencies as well? Seems like a lot of people who oppsed the AMA from making this call, supported Hoss' intent of spreading the word via gov't agencies.

What would it take for the AMA to spread the word in a way that someone in this thread could actually see useful? How about a full page spread in the USA Today? Yeah ... that baby will run you a cool half million, for only 1 day to boot. Nah ... I think a booth at a parks convention just might be a better method of the drip effect and at a lower cost.

Oh and yes LCS, the AMA is a worthwhile cause, at just about any aspect. Oh and they are an NFP too!

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

actually, hoss, i would be rather honored to have 1/2 the reputation you have.

kid chuckles

I don't understand was this to promote AMA (ONLY) or for the betterment of flyers every where? I understand if they are trying to promote all flyers AMA or not but if they are there to say that without AMA it would not be good to let people fly that would not be right. Just don't understand this one. What is it saying in laymans terms or is that laymans terms lol?

abel_pranger

KC-

To repeat the direct cite, with emphasis: This is an effort to introduce local officials to the AMA prior to clubs appearing before city and park boards, city councils, etc.
Now then, why do you think AMA wants to get to local land-owning entities before those would endeavor to fly a model airplane do?

Abel

049flyer

My Feedback: (18)

STLpilot-

What you aren't understanding is this: Many would prefer that the AMA do more to promote the hobby and less to promote the AMA. Many fear that the AMA will plant the seed that only AMA members can be trusted to fly model planes.

The AMA does NOT represent all model aviation hobbyists and probably not even a majority of hobbyists.

KidEpoxy

Well, since it looks like we are going to keep the post with STL calling us hypocrates
I guess I'll address that.

It is not hypocratical to previously say we wanted HOSS to get involved with groups like this, and then to now say we still want HOSS doing it. We do not become hypocrates by maintaining our position.

Also, by my comment that I'd like to see other companies in the hobby & insurance industries join AMA at that meeting doesnt require the AMA not to do this. Quite the contrary, it demonstrates that I want AMA to be included in this joint effort. What part of strategic partnering means we need to do things alone?

Further, I have stated this activity has great potential to do good for the hobby. Which is exactly inline with the historic comments supporting the Hoss government involvement aka Doing This.

Those that wanted Hoss to do this are not hypocrates for still wanting it to be Hoss doing it.
Even Hoss just commented that they may be again trying to copy him,
but we all know nothing beats the real deal.

There is no waffling here STL.
Yet your unsupported & erroneous slight of those that back Hoss gets to stay on the boards.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Could you have flip flopped this statement and more than you could. Go back and re-read what I said again. I never said you still want Hoss to do it ... I said his position was to talk to gov't agencies and now since the current leader is doing just that ... it's not good enough or done the way you want them to do it. That's called hypocrisy.

Sure ... we can wait for that ... or wait for you to do it ... or just keep dreaming about it. Bottom line, AMA took a stand that YOU, me and everyone else on this board has been asking them to do. The AMA is there whether it's DM or Hoss, bottom line YOUR represented and the AMA is doing their job, as usual. Once again, they keep giving their members EXACTLY what they say they are going to do. If you want more ... go find it.

KidEpoxy

Merry christmass, Have the last word.

I'm tired of every thread we have getting dragged off to tangent personal arguement.

Great for you, your slurs & spin have won the day vs folks that just want to stay on topic.
I'm done with this yet again garbage.

Hossfly

Just a few comments that I will offer because I am getting mentioned a bit.

IMO everyone here offers valid points. IMO, AMA will always promote AMA first. Is that good or bad?
In the world of those organized groups that are not well aware of the modeling fraternity, would it not be proper to first introduce to them the subject from a strong (in appearance anyway) central association/leadership?

Our daily lives are subject to "leadership" that I firmly disagree with and promises to become even more so. Yet, where would you and I be if there was NO leadership?

So, Gentlemen, while you and I can still fight for what we want, overall, IMO, we should lend a helping hand to whatever promotes us among the legislative and business communities. While the AMA will be talking to the "Head Sheds", we at the local level can use those introductions for our benefit at our level.

OTOH, we each need to be aware of just what AMA does and/or is doing. Each poster here raises valid questions. As 2fast, states, AMA does not represent all or probably even a majority of model aviation hobbyists. I firmly believe that, but neither does my NRA represent all gun owners, yet look what that 5 million strong organization accomplishes for the 100 million gun owners. That organization is well respected and supported by the firearms industry. AMA could well use more respect and support from our modeling industry.

So, overall, in spite of the inherent possibilities for errors, I just have to feel that the overall outcome of AMA stepping into the spotlight among the legislative and industry bodies will be positive for the sport of model aviation.

BTW: Have you nominated anyone to the AMA EC? Next Wed., 06-25 is deadline? http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutam...ationsdue.aspx

Making changes really starts with the ballot.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Hoss

Good post but (Arrr... the dreaded but) the NRA isn't even close to running the risk of equating membership with rights to owning guns...in that respect they are much different than the AMA.

The NRA fights for everyone’s rights regardless of membership...I only wish AMA’s membership were steadfast based similarly. That unwavering commitment is the reason for NRA’s strength and so should AMA’s strength be derived for aero modeling. AMA’s downfall will be because of its tunnel vision focus of its own survival instead of the hobby first and foremost. AMA should represent all aero modelers, not AMA modelers to be compared to the NRA…big difference IMO.

I only wish I could find potential candidates that openly express the same viewpoints so that I could get behind them for whatever positions possible within the AMA. I am certain there are many more waiting to join AMA when or if that were to ever happen.

Today, AMA’s concern is AMA. This forum is proof positive of that fact and is apparent in every mind-washed word uttered through out the typical membership role…especially at the club level. It is a real shame AMA hasn’t educated us to be better delegates of this hobby. I see no signs of real change…only the demise of the hobby and then the AMA.

In the future I wish that the NRA would be successful and find it is no longer needed…everyone would be properly educated and therefore would autonomously maintain their right… and every household had model airplanes….AMA or not.

KidEpoxy

Hoss
I am thinking along the lines of what LCS said.

The NRA analagy may not be the most accurate,
because at the end of the day,
the NRA is for keeping shooting available to the public, not just available to NRA members only.

Should the NRA lobby a city, it is for public shooting.
The NRA isnt after getting public shooting lands / gunownership restricted to NRA Members only.
Can we say the same about AMA regarding the model plane hobby?

If AirHogs had a rep there, would they use the same pitch as the AMA reps?
That foamies are safe & fun family activity that dont need restrictions? Or will AirHogs pitch restrictions on who can fly and insurance demands (including insurance brand names requirement?)

Hossfly

It has been said, "The longest journey starts with the first step." IMO, it is better just to originate the possibility of change simply because it makes the incumbent think that some are not satisfied, if someone else is on that ballot. The continual one candidate ballots are a big reason for the problems we have now. For example when an airline pilot, several times I bid a new airplane/position and went back in senority because I found myself getting complacent with a current position. Having to perform does make a difference in one's performance level. Paraphrased, Einstein said that it isn't overly smart when we do the same thing over and over while expecting different results, and also he said that those that never make mistakes don't ever accomplish anything.
Right now AMA is looking for a new Comptroller. The current one has not been there very long. WONDER WHY? [:-] The current CFO is, IMO, very much less than effective.

Nominate some AMA Leader member for EVP.

One big considerstion here is that NRA lobbies (NRA per se, NOT the Foundation) governments at all levels along with lesser groups such as the Texas State Rifle Association, of which I am also a Life Member, same for NRA and AMA. BTW have you noticed the growth in AMA Life membershipes for the past several years and the vast number of extra donations as listed in the magazine most months? There are many AMA members that needing informing, however it will not be done by EC members trying to correct problems using the same thinking as they used when they created those problems (again a little A.E. thrown in there) .
NRA, and TSRA does support local clubs / groups / individuals with certain projects. I received excellent help some years ago when caught with a side-arm while fishing in the Big Thicket National Preserve. That is a federal item. No conviction and received my gun back. Being a member of both groups resulted in that help.

My Club just received a $1000 AMA check due to improvements made last year like buying additional acrage.

So, KE, we all need to give a bit and announce that which we don't like. Supporting a thing doesn't mean one has to agree with all parts. OTOH if one part is disagreeable, it doesn't mean one has to not find that fault and say so.

As for an organization's group liability insurance, to best of my knowledge no organization provides insurance for non-members.

I never claimed my NRA analogy was the "...most accurate.." However, IMO, it illustrates a point and it is one that I am very familiar with.

edit: typo

KidEpoxy

Actually Hoss,
I was intending to compare them in just this one little aspect on meeting with the city folks /loobying,
rather than the big picture.

I'll agree that there are things that the AMA does that are good.

But we both know there are things the AMA could do better at.
It is my opinion that the Doom&Gloom insurance aspect of selling AMA is one of those things.