daven

My Feedback: (1)

A fellow clubmember forwarded the info below to our Club Board. Our field is roughly 20 miles from the Excel Center where the Republican National Convention is being held this week. Should we have been notified?? Does this truly mean we can not fly this week?


Subject: More TFR (Temporary Flight Restriction) Info

> Area B
> Airspace Definition:
> Center: On the MINNEAPOLIS VOR/DME (MSP) 060 degree
> radial at 6 nautical miles. (Latitude: 44º56'38"N,
> Longitude: 93º06'43"W)

> Radius: 30 nautical miles
>
>
> Altitude: From the surface up to but not including
> 18000 feet MSL
>
> Effective Date(s):
> From September 01, 2008 at 1700 UTC (September 01,
> 2008 at 1200 CDT)
> To September 02, 2008 at 0459 UTC (September 01,
> 2008 at 2359 CDT)
>
> From September 02, 2008 at 2100 UTC (September 02,
> 2008 at 1600 CDT)
> To September 03, 2008 at 0459 UTC (September 02,
> 2008 at 2359 CDT)
>
> From September 03, 2008 at 2100 UTC (September 03,
> 2008 at 1600 CDT)
> To September 04, 2008 at 0459 UTC (September 03,
> 2008 at 2359 CDT)
>
> From September 04, 2008 at 2100 UTC (September 04,
> 2008 at 1600 CDT)
> To September 05, 2008 at 0459 UTC (September 04,
> 2008 at 2359 CDT)
>
> D. THE FOLLOWING OPERATIONS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED WITHIN
> THIS TFR: FLIGHT TRAINING, PRACTICE INSTRUMENT
> APPROACHES, AEROBATIC FLIGHT, GLIDER OPERATIONS,
> PARACHUTE OPERATIONS, ULTRALIGHT, HANG GLIDING,
> BALLOON OPERATIONS, TETHERED AEROSTATS,
> AGRICULTURE/CROP DUSTING, ANIMAL POPULATION CONTROL
> FLIGHT OPERATIONS, BANNER TOWING OPERATIONS, MODEL
> AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS, MODEL ROCKETRY, AND UNMANNED
> AERIAL SYSTEMS (UAS).

Rufcut

If you're within the stated area it sounds like you're grounded. Bummer. Hard to believe that model airplanes flying 20 miles from the convention center pose much of a threat. Was there a similar TFR around Denver?

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, just found the notice on the AMA site. Unbelievable...

http://www.modelaircraft.org/members...bs/notams.aspx

abel_pranger

Requiring you to pack it in and go home before 4 PM for a couple of days doesn't seem like a great big hairy deal. Promulgating the NOTAMs could be done better, though. AMA has club location and POC data, and an Email broadcast is simple enough.

Abel

KidEpoxy

cant wait to hear the guys that cling to
"The FAA & FARs dont apply to RC Models"
explain this one

Bob Mitchell

Yep, and there was an equivalent TFR last week during the DNC

Seems to me to be a bit of overkill.

Hossfly

Posted last week at AMA. Posted when?? in the Clubhouse forum by whom??

daven

My Feedback: (1)

I just don't think a person needs to have internet access, and know where to ferret this stuff out to know.

The AMA is protecting itself by posting it on their website, but doing nothing else (that I'm aware of) to alert clubs of issues like this.

Bob Mitchell

An email to the club Presidents or other officer in the affected areas would probably do the trick. But then that leaves the burden on them to contact their members, some of which may not have email access.

On the AMA website if you do a search on "Denver, CO" or "Minneapolis, MN", each yields 2 clubs. If you pick the zipcode of one of those and do a 50 mile range it jumps to 23 clubs for MN and 16 clubs for CO. Only the 2 clubs listed with either Denver or Minneapolis addresses show on the city search. The others list neighboring towns. My guess is that many of the other would also lie within the affected area.

I would hope that the AMA would have an active notification for those situations where a NOTAM includes model aircraft rather than a passive list on their website, but apparently not.

Live Wire

Hoss
In the Club House by who me thats who

Hossfly

Club House

FAA Restriction - 8/30/2008 11:50:08 PM

Post #1 Hossfly.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Ok, now this gets even more confusing.

If you open this link (off the AMA Website) there are two links listed, and both have different radius's of no fly zone.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/members...bs/notams.aspx

One states 3 miles, one 10 miles, and one 30 miles. Not really sure which one effects model airplanes. I emailed the AMA first thing Tuesday morning and have yet to receive a response...

Anyone?

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

The model flying applies to 30nm radius.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Seeing that some don't understand plain english in the safety code I could see how the NOTAM could be confusing to those that don't read them on a regular basis. Perhaps the AMA should create their own pop up picture book featuring the telletubbies to explain how a radius works in conjunction with a given point and how nautical miles works on both sailboats and aero-planes. Perhaps they could use a 3rd party to sell the book as well.

So the AMA did their job ... posted the NOTAM ... and even tho they didn't send it to each and every body's email address ... which wouldn't have mattered because most wouldn't have understood it anyway, we are right back where we started. God help this organization ......

da Rock

It would appear that our Federal Gummit should do a better job of notification. They provide FAR's to whom?

BTW, why exactly would anyone assume that AMA has any responsibility in this? Commercial airline pilots are often ALPA members. Would ALPA be considered at fault for not notifying their members?

abel_pranger

AMA has been/is desperately seeking gummit recognition as the representative of aeromodelers. FAA threw them a bone. AMA filed it. Does that answer your question?

Abel

Bob Mitchell

It's been a few years since I was current, but if I remember correctly full scale pilots are required to consult NOTAM's for their area of flight or route prior to take-off. There are no such requirements for RC pilots. I bet the percentage of RC pilots who check NOTAM's could be measured out about the 5th or 6th decimal place.

I don't think the AMA is responsible for such notifications, but as a service to their members should provide it. Semantics, maybe, but someone in Muncie gets the information either from the FAA directly or through some sort of search. How to make such notification is another question. Perhaps emails to club officer(s) in the affected area.

skylark-flier

Actually, this RC restriction isn't the first time something like this has happened either. On 9-11, while the towers were coming down, I just happened to be flying my Sr. Falcon and had no idea what was going on. I was almost arrested for flying during that restriction. Fortunately for me, the local sheriff deputy knows me, knows I've been flying since the early 50's - he was decent enough to fill me in.

It's called "domestic terrorism" - it's the US government terrorizing the American public with fear-mongering.

And YES - I served more than 20 years in the US military. I've earned the right to say it like it is.

Dave Wittich, USAF (Retired)
AMA 767985

daven

My Feedback: (1)

I emailed the AMA first thing Tuesday morning and have yet to receive a response. By the time I do, the restriction will be over.

Silent-AV8R

Who did you email. The AMA is an organization, which person did you send your email to?

The Toolman

It shouldn't make any diff who he emailed there, Its the AMA, and this was important news. Everybody there should have known about this. If not, then it was the fault of the heads of the org. for not spreading the word among the workers. Its not like there are that many people that work there.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Right...and because of the service of many before you and many more after you, all of us have the right to say whatever. Thanks

Silent-AV8R

Well, actually it IS important to know who he contacted, because it is THAT person who failed to get back to him. But avoiding that question does make it easier to launch a generalized rant against the AMA.

But since you feel so strongly that the AMA should have communicated this to each and every member, how exactly would you propose that to be done?

ira d

IMO the FAA does not veiw rc planes as being much of a threat they
just include them in the advisory to cover the bases so to speak.

When you think of it because the FAA does not regulate rc planes
they have no way to know who is flying what when and where as
they do with full scale. Of course they can contact the AMA but
thats still no guarntee that will get the word out.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

I think an RSS feed would be pretty cool, pretty easy to setup on their end.