rack

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hi i was paid a visit from the FBI regarding my huge airplanes, they got my name i belive, from a news paper article written about me and my airplanes,
they don't know the rules, they were under the impresion i needed FAA licenseing to fly these.
there main concern was how much weight i can Cary in my Waco and if i have been contacted from any one from the EU wanting to buy airplanes,
I'm glad they are keeping an i on whats going on. but it seems they nead to be educated on our hobby.i would like to see the AMA step up here and talk to these guys and our other enthusiast who some how believe that an airplane approaching 100 lbs is some how illegal .
i invited these gentleman to a flight demo i can do my part but it would be nice if the AMA can also step up here ,
thanks Vernon Coop AMA 671070

Hossfly

Thanks vernon for the comments. Was that recently or some time ago?

Dave Mathewson, [email protected], and your own DVP should be informed of your questioning.

Thanks again.

rack

My Feedback: (11)

it was oct 22 2008

amdhotprocessor

My Feedback: (6)

FBI loves to stick there long pinnochio nose where it dont belong, EX: DEA-EPA-CIA....... 3 groups . NO sence

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Due to the content of this thread I feel that it's important enough for open discussion of the subject. Therefore I'm moving this thread to the main AMA discussion forum.

Ken

Bob Mitchell

Did they take you up on the invitation?

rack

My Feedback: (11)

they said they would get back to me

KidEpoxy

Rack, I dont mean this as an attack on you personally, but in the big picture...


What the heck is the FBI doing if they go to get the facts on Model Aviation Laws from just some guy flying toy planes? I mean, they didnt even contact Muncie, let alone the FAA/FCC. Crikey! I'm so glad 9/11 opened up interagency comms to avoid this kind of thing.... the FBI cant even get modeling laws explained to them by some FAA dudes?

Good thing they didnt ask some of the guys here,
or the FBI would think the FAA let us go feral.

cap10b

We all like to think of our security agencies as stainless steel efficiency but in reality there more like keystone cops.

jds

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Well, I'm glad "rack" cleared the way to fly giant RC with the feds. Now I can go ahead with my plans to build a 500 pounder.

KidEpoxy

From the OP
these guys and our other enthusiast who some how believe that an airplane approaching 100 lbs
approaching 200 lbs
approaching 500 lbs is some how illegal.

Just what 55lb/100lb/500lb US law is there?
Is this that whole 20kg(55lb) international treaty theory again,
where its illegal to fly over 55lb unless your private citezen pals Jed & JimmyJoe give you permission to ignore the 20kg thing

Robotech

My Feedback: (9)

Maybe it was just a couple of junior field agents with too much time on their hands acting on their own.

rack

My Feedback: (11)

there isn't any hard law or treaty that pertains to us .right now you could fly an ultra-lite with line of site rc.
the FAA allows the AMA to set our own regulations but these are guidelines for AMA members only
the faa is undergoing some rule changes adding language pertaining to uavs nothing to do with size only altitudes and transponder ids
the feds were surprised by the size of our aircraft and didn't know how they were flown either by line of site or autonomous and how much weight you can carry .
they were not here to threaten or intimidate they just wanted an inside look into our hobby and to inform them if approached by any one looking to build or buy an aircraft for nefarious reasons, or if something just doesn't seem right.
just because a few of you are afraid of your own shadow doesn't make our hobby wrong

cap10b

Rack,
Your right people are afraid of their own shadow especially when the Feds get involved and dont make their intentions clear. I think people are afraid that some one is going to throw the baby out with the bath water. Certainly our FAA does not have a very high level
of interest in our activities and they even threaten us or at least make it known that if we interfere in anyway with Air traffic they will shut us down.
The Laser Pointer incidents and models at 10,000 feet and some pilot saying a model plane was near his plane coming into the TCA.
All these things add up and now two Fed agents show up unannouced poking around and askng questions. I'd want to say hey just a sec fellows let me call the prez of my club and ask for guidance on how to proceed.

I think we have to take these kinds of interactions with the Federal agencies serious and someone should document this and find out just how serious we should take this and take names and numbers down so our AMA rep can at least make inquiries on the hill.

Just my .02 worth.

JDS

rack

My Feedback: (11)

im sure others have ben contacted but keep it to themselves.
im a high profile builder , i generate a lot of intrest in what i build. iv had three newspaper articles and a two page spread in RC Report.the fact that i sell my planes to support my habit may also have contributed to the feds poking around
i didn't consider there visit an intrusion .im more than happy to show off my aircraft to anyone that shows up

cap10b

Rack,
I hate to admit it but FRANCE of all places is way ahead of us in the extreme giant scale building and flying and the CAA the French version of the FAA works WITH them not against them. Oh Frank Tiano is going way out on a limb sponsoring the extreme giant scale fly ins. He is working out side of the AMA because AMA has no interest in such planes or activities and so I applaud him for making it happen.

jds

rack

My Feedback: (11)

the french are heavily governed on there giant aircraft everything needs a permit,and every permit can be revoked without cause.
we in the us have no government restrictions on the weight or size of our rc aircraft only airspace restrictions that apply to everything.
here we basically fly as a group (AMA) if you want to fly with them you must comply with there rules otherwise you can do like Tiano is doing set up your own event with your own set of rules and hopefully having enough insurance to cover your assets.
there is nothing stopping any one from building and flying a 3lb or five hundred lb airplane in your own backyard as long as you don't violate faa controlled airspace . the faa does not work against us they recognize the AMA as a self governing body and choose to leave the RC industry unregulated because the AMA does serve a significant roll in the safe use of model airplanes
now who's got the least amount of regulation? it is absolutely the USA .just search around you will find a host of huge scale aircraft in the US
the grass is plenty green right hear you just have to look, Vern

cap10b

That you are right, just read the DOA/Accident reports on all the homebuilt non pilot certified deaths that occur. You are right in that you can build a spruce goose in your back yard but there are no events to fly it at and your still considered an enemy more than a friend. Watching some videos in China this crazy pilot flew a homebuilt off the local road into a his home edition you can see the houses and cars below him where he flys over the homes and he lands right down the middle of the road right smack dab in the middle of his neighborhood. Too crazy.

The problem with no rules is that your not on the radar and then when you get on the radar your a bogey and not a friendly.

jds

KidEpoxy

I find it odd that AMA in Muncie is not "on the radar".
Is Muncie doing a good job of interacting with the feds and reprenting us to the government
if the feds go to some local guy rather than make a call to Muncie (or make a call to FAA).

Was it 2006 or 2007 when DB wrote his sky is falling - dont say nuthin to nobody column in MA?


This terrorism junk is all smoke & hype anyway.
It really dont matter how many lbs of explosives a model plane cn carry,
the question should be
How many people can one of these kill?
And one of the many circumstancial answers is
"2 in Hungary carrying 0lb explosives or weapons"

An unarmed .40Sport plane flown by a terrorist can maime & potentially kill someone when simply flown into a crowd of people. That makes it a swell terrorism weapon, because terrorism isnt about accomplishing tactical damage, it is about making folks afraid there will be tactical damage. All they need to do is have 10 terrorists in 10 states fly a 40sport each into a group of people and claim responsibility, and the media will do the terrorists work for them.

SOme folks think the AMA should take a wait & see approach on dealing with everything.
Lets wait till folks die, and then start trying to keep our planes.

cap10b

Kid,
I hear ya, I too read that article, I wrote in and said we need more rep on the hill for our hobby, too many of the old crusty rusty gang sitting on their duff doing nothing buy watching Montel Williams and worry about the internet.

What was that line in movie "Midway" Mont Cliff.

"At Pearl Harbor we waited and on December 7th we saw, the wait and seers will bust your a__ everytime !"

JDS

PS I meant to write DOT not DOA ..lol

Live Wire

Interesting
There was a thread just like this one a few years back, when the FBI thought the guy was planning on carring a big pay load or some thing,

rack

My Feedback: (11)

with the increased intrest in super giants i can see the AMA expanding there weight limits, the certification and inspection process has been a complete success in the 55 to 100 lb class.i belive properly qualified people flying qualified airplanes is here to stay .no mater what the weight self regulation does work .these airplanes require a considerable investment. its not uncommon to put 15 thousand into a model with the expense comes quality, redundancy and safety

Rufcut

I'm afraid you're right on the money KE. In view of the rapidly advancing technology available at minimum cost (FPV etc.), we are likely to see more FBI scrutiny in the future. I really wish the AMA would get more pro-active with regard to these technologies before we all find ourselves flying indoor foamies.

rack

My Feedback: (11)

do any of you have any idea of what 40 megahertz is used for

cap10b

besides walkie talkies and some German RC frequencies ............havent the foggiest.