Class C-Restricted?
12-07-2008, 08:57 PM
#2
RE: Class C-Restricted?
Example: I am a CD for the local club. I am also one of 2 heli pilots in the club, but we host an annual heli fun fly. Since it is a fun fly and not a competition, it is classified as a Class C event, but it is restricted to helicopters.
Hope that shed some light into your question.
Rafael
Hope that shed some light into your question.
Rafael
12-07-2008, 09:03 PM
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RE: Class C-Restricted?
Gotcha, very good. That helps a lot. While reviewing the AMA PDFs for my CD application, I couldn't find exact mention of what that meant.
Thanks,
Frank
Thanks,
Frank
12-07-2008, 10:16 PM
#4
RE: Class C-Restricted?
ORIGINAL: Muroc1
Gotcha, very good. That helps a lot. While reviewing the AMA PDFs for my CD application, I couldn't find exact mention of what that meant.
Thanks,
Frank
Gotcha, very good. That helps a lot. While reviewing the AMA PDFs for my CD application, I couldn't find exact mention of what that meant.
Thanks,
Frank
Sanction Classification has nothing to do with the type of aircraft, just the people, and the number of events and the awards.
To avoid confusion, all sanctioned events are for AMA members only. However a sanctioned event can be restricted to certain people within the AMA. If so, and the event is competitive, then it is a Class B Competition. Example: You sponsor a competition and you restrict it to the members of a certain club, clubs, and/or an organization other than AMA. That event is Class B.
OTOH, you are an IMAA member, and you sponsor a Fly-In (IMAA events cannot be competitive) however IMAA events are restricted to IMAA members. That event is C-Restricted. No competition.
If you sponsor an event for a general Fly-In with no competition then you are Class C.
If a sanctioned event used airplanes as a restriction, then almost all events would be C-R. Pylon events are limited to Pylon Racers, each defined for a specific class. Pattern is limited to Pattern airplanes. Almost all competition events have definitions for the specific structure and power for the specific airplanes.
C-R is simply an add-on to punish IMAA for restricting their events to IMAA members. That is killing IMAA. Both the AMA EC and the IMAA Board are too arrogant and stupid to work it out differently. [:@]
The same applies to ALL AMA Competition Classification procedures. It's all absolutely archaic as the classifications stem from the old days of when FF and CL events were held together, and sometimes along with an RC event. BTDT! The AMA President, the EVP, and the Contest Board Chairmen should each and all be ashamed of their dereliction of duty for not bringing these items to the table and revise the programs. As of now Contest Coordination is basically unworkable.
Even if AMA allows one's event to slip through with a wrong classification, as the Contest Director, one should be very ashamed for not being adequately informed in his duties to know better.
Again, Frank, you're getting a lot more than you ask for. OTOH, when one aspires to do a job, then one should be willing to learn every detail in that job and prepare to perform it in detail.
Good Luck as a CD.
12-08-2008, 07:55 AM
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RE: Class C-Restricted?
Hossfly,
Calling people names just is not nice. Remember the Christmas season is only a few weeks away. You don't really want coal in your stocking do you? Rafael23cc did answer the question correctly without going into alot of detail. Relax and let the joy of Christmas come into you.
I am also a CD for our local club but not one that takes the fun away from our hobby of flying!
Crash99
Calling people names just is not nice. Remember the Christmas season is only a few weeks away. You don't really want coal in your stocking do you? Rafael23cc did answer the question correctly without going into alot of detail. Relax and let the joy of Christmas come into you.
I am also a CD for our local club but not one that takes the fun away from our hobby of flying!
Crash99
12-08-2008, 09:00 AM
#8
RE: Class C-Restricted?
ORIGINAL: RCPAUL
Hoss
This tone and attitude is why you did not get elected.
paul
Hoss
This tone and attitude is why you did not get elected.
paul
Bill, AMA 4720
12-08-2008, 10:13 AM
#9
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Class C-Restricted?
Which one would you rather have, someone who makes you get all warm and fuzzy, or the correct information? I know which one I would put more confidence in, maybe you would not.
Bill, AMA 4720
I would prefer a response that gets the information across in a polite, non-condescending manner that doesn't belittle the other person. I take it this is not your approach either.
Paul
12-08-2008, 11:26 AM
#10
RE: Class C-Restricted?
ORIGINAL: RCPAUL
Hoss
This tone and attitude is why you did not get elected.
paul
Hoss
This tone and attitude is why you did not get elected.
paul
) concerning my tone and attitude. All my life I may have built sloppy models, but perfection in my work was always a definite goal. Far two many years watching non-caring individuals perform sloppy work, which only increased the loads on their peers, endowed me with about the same attitude against the non-performers as Thomas Jefferson had against tyrants. As a youngster I was most fortunate in being allowed to help in the fields from age 6 to 14. At 14, I was working in the log-woods of East Texas. By 15 I was working on right-of-way crews. By 16 I was working as a welder's helper on pipelines, where detailed performance was a requirement. At 19 and 4 months, I entered the USAF Aviation Cadet program and I assure you sloppy performance was NOT tolerated there. I credit my Avn-Cdt success, because as a teen-ager I learned to be more attentive to what I was doing due to my work ethic and such provided me skills not learned in a class room or long summer vacations doing nothing but vacation. Not having a silver spoon in my mouth at birth was a real gift.
The tone of the volunteer that bemoans performing to his/her best because he/she receives no compensation is the tone I have a grudge for. If you volunteer to do something, then do it as well as you can or get out of the way of those that can and will.
Therefore I do have a grudge against the C-Restricted item because not ONE INCH of sanction protection is afforded the C-R sanction. Regular "C" is allowed 100 miles between "C" events.
This item is the killing factor as far as IMAA events go. As I stated neither the IMAA Board or the AMA EC will address this situation. As a long time IMAA supporter, a very much longer AMA member and one who has written several letters about this inequity and dereliction of duty for the membership being second place to a few EGOS in the hierarchy, with no response, yes I do have an attitude there.
The very last experience was when my club planned an IMAA (IMAA Charter 148) two day event. We had the IMAA/AMA Sanction 9 mo. before the event. Over 6 months we worked up a great event. 2 months before our event a nearby club, better situated than our facility, applied and was issued an AMA Sanction for a Big Bird 2 day Event on our date. Since our IMAA event was restricted to IMAA only and theirs was not, they blew us out of the water. While the local RCCC had tried to intervene, the DVP and the AMA Pres. both stood and upheld for the other club. Needless to say that never again have I, and will not again attend a Houston area Barnstormer's event if I was paid to. Before that I attended all that I possibly could.
BTW, over the years I learned to research for truth and not depend on someone else. When in USAF pilot training, and had a solo scheduled, I quickly "researched" where the instructors would be flying, so I could sneek out somewhere else and chase the trucks on the highway. Knowledge can provide fun as well as labor.
Now RCPAUL I failed to get elected simply because I did not get enough votes.
Fortunately some 5% of AMA's elgible voters figured one that performs for the betterment of the unit rather than their own ego and self-gratification was worth voting for. IMO, when one has to compromise standards of decency to get elected, then getting elected isn't worth being elected. If I have to kiss your rear to work FOR YOU, then, simply, I don't have to work for you. [sm=49_49.gif]So again I request YOUR explanation of my tone and attitude.
edited; spelling typo
12-08-2008, 12:27 PM
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RE: Class C-Restricted?
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder
Which one would you rather have, someone who makes you get all warm and fuzzy, or the correct information? I know which one I would put more confidence in, maybe you would not.
Bill, AMA 4720
Which one would you rather have, someone who makes you get all warm and fuzzy, or the correct information? I know which one I would put more confidence in, maybe you would not.
Bill, AMA 4720
One can provide correct information in a civil and courteous manner, without being condecending. Heck, one can even correct another's mistaken information and do so in a manner that is civil and courteous.
12-08-2008, 12:31 PM
#13
RE: Class C-Restricted?
ORIGINAL: Hossfly
RCPAUL, would you please advise me, (KEN, I'm asking for whatever he wishes to say I really LOVE a HOT Kitchen. ) concerning my tone and attitude. All my life I may have built sloppy models, but perfection in my work was always a definite goal. Far two many years watching non-caring individuals perform sloppy work, which only increased the loads on their peers, endowed me with about the same attitude against the non-performers as Thomas Jefferson had against tyrants.
As a youngster I was most fortunate in being allowed to help in the fields from age 6 to 14. At 14, I was working in the log-woods of East Texas. By 15 I was working on right-of-way crews. By 16 I was working as a welder's helper on pipelines, where detailed performance was a requirement. At 19 and 4 months, I entered the USAF Aviation Cadet program and I assure you sloppy performance was NOT tolerated there. I credit my Avn-Cdt success, because as a teen-ager I learned to be more attentive to what I was doing due to my work ethic and such provided me skills not learned in a class room or long summer vacations doing nothing but vacation. Not having a silver spoon in my mouth at birth was a real gift.
The tone of the volunteer that bemoans performing to his/her best because he/she receives no compensation is the tone I have a grudge for. If you volunteer to do something, then do it as well as you can or get out of the way of those that can and will.
Therefore I do have a grudge against the C-Restricted item because not ONE INCH of sanction protection is afforded the C-R sanction. Regular "C" is allowed 100 miles between "C" events.
This item is the killing factor as far as IMAA events go. As I stated neither the IMAA Board or the AMA EC will address this situation. As a long time IMAA supporter, a very much longer AMA member and one who has written several letters about this inequity and dereliction of duty for the membership being second place to a few EGOS in the hierarchy, with no response, yes I do have an attitude there.
The very last experience was when my club planned an IMAA (IMAA Charter 148) two day event. We had the IMAA/AMA Sanction 9 mo. before the event. Over 6 months we worked up a great event. 2 months before our event a nearby club, better situated than our facility, applied and was issued an AMA Sanction for a Big Bird 2 day Event on our date. Since our IMAA event was restricted to IMAA only and theirs was not, they blew us out of the water. While the local RCCC had tried to intervene, the DVP and the AMA Pres. both stood and upheld for the other club. Needless to say that never again have I, and will not again attend a Houston area Barnstormer's event if I was paid to. Before that I attended all that I possibly could.
BTW, over the years I learned to research for truth and not depend on someone else. When in USAF pilot training, and had a solo scheduled, I quickly "researched" where the instructors would be flying, so I could sneek out somewhere else and chase the trucks on the highway. Knowledge can provide fun as well as labor.
Now RCPAUL I failed to get elected simply because I did not get enough votes. Fortunately some 5% of AMA's elgible voters figured one that performs for the betterment of the unit rather than their own ego and self-gratification was worth voting for. IMO, when one has to compromise standards of decency to get elected, then getting elected isn't worth being elected. If I have to kiss your rear to work FOR YOU, then, simply, I don't have to work for you. [sm=49_49.gif]
So again I request YOUR explanation of my tone and attitude.
edited; spelling typo
ORIGINAL: RCPAUL
Hoss
This tone and attitude is why you did not get elected.
paul
Hoss
This tone and attitude is why you did not get elected.
paul
) concerning my tone and attitude. All my life I may have built sloppy models, but perfection in my work was always a definite goal. Far two many years watching non-caring individuals perform sloppy work, which only increased the loads on their peers, endowed me with about the same attitude against the non-performers as Thomas Jefferson had against tyrants. As a youngster I was most fortunate in being allowed to help in the fields from age 6 to 14. At 14, I was working in the log-woods of East Texas. By 15 I was working on right-of-way crews. By 16 I was working as a welder's helper on pipelines, where detailed performance was a requirement. At 19 and 4 months, I entered the USAF Aviation Cadet program and I assure you sloppy performance was NOT tolerated there. I credit my Avn-Cdt success, because as a teen-ager I learned to be more attentive to what I was doing due to my work ethic and such provided me skills not learned in a class room or long summer vacations doing nothing but vacation. Not having a silver spoon in my mouth at birth was a real gift.
The tone of the volunteer that bemoans performing to his/her best because he/she receives no compensation is the tone I have a grudge for. If you volunteer to do something, then do it as well as you can or get out of the way of those that can and will.
Therefore I do have a grudge against the C-Restricted item because not ONE INCH of sanction protection is afforded the C-R sanction. Regular "C" is allowed 100 miles between "C" events.
This item is the killing factor as far as IMAA events go. As I stated neither the IMAA Board or the AMA EC will address this situation. As a long time IMAA supporter, a very much longer AMA member and one who has written several letters about this inequity and dereliction of duty for the membership being second place to a few EGOS in the hierarchy, with no response, yes I do have an attitude there.
The very last experience was when my club planned an IMAA (IMAA Charter 148) two day event. We had the IMAA/AMA Sanction 9 mo. before the event. Over 6 months we worked up a great event. 2 months before our event a nearby club, better situated than our facility, applied and was issued an AMA Sanction for a Big Bird 2 day Event on our date. Since our IMAA event was restricted to IMAA only and theirs was not, they blew us out of the water. While the local RCCC had tried to intervene, the DVP and the AMA Pres. both stood and upheld for the other club. Needless to say that never again have I, and will not again attend a Houston area Barnstormer's event if I was paid to. Before that I attended all that I possibly could.
BTW, over the years I learned to research for truth and not depend on someone else. When in USAF pilot training, and had a solo scheduled, I quickly "researched" where the instructors would be flying, so I could sneek out somewhere else and chase the trucks on the highway. Knowledge can provide fun as well as labor.
Now RCPAUL I failed to get elected simply because I did not get enough votes.
Fortunately some 5% of AMA's elgible voters figured one that performs for the betterment of the unit rather than their own ego and self-gratification was worth voting for. IMO, when one has to compromise standards of decency to get elected, then getting elected isn't worth being elected. If I have to kiss your rear to work FOR YOU, then, simply, I don't have to work for you. [sm=49_49.gif]So again I request YOUR explanation of my tone and attitude.
edited; spelling typo
Muroc got his question across in 2 sentences.
Raphael, RCPaul and Stickbuilder all got their points across, on topic, no frills, in a couple sentences. Concise and readable.
Hoss has contributed two lengthy, rambling posts that veer far and wide from the question and the responses. I suggest the more readable posts are more understandable and less contentious.
If that matters to anyone.
Dave Olson
12-08-2008, 12:37 PM
#14
RE: Class C-Restricted?
Gentlemen,
The results of the recent AMA election, and the reason for those results, have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Please keep your posts on the topic of the thread. I have just removed a large string of posts that were taking this thread off topic, and will continue to remove any posts that are made that aren't talking about the topic of this thread.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Ken
The results of the recent AMA election, and the reason for those results, have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Please keep your posts on the topic of the thread. I have just removed a large string of posts that were taking this thread off topic, and will continue to remove any posts that are made that aren't talking about the topic of this thread.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Ken
12-08-2008, 12:45 PM
#15
RE: Class C-Restricted?
ORIGINAL: Hossfly
No it really DOES NOT. Rafael23cc is in error. Class C-Restricted is explained in the Membership Manual but is omitted in the Sanction Procedures of the Rule Book.
Sanction Classification has nothing to do with the type of aircraft, just the people, and the number of events and the awards.
..........
No it really DOES NOT. Rafael23cc is in error. Class C-Restricted is explained in the Membership Manual but is omitted in the Sanction Procedures of the Rule Book.
Sanction Classification has nothing to do with the type of aircraft, just the people, and the number of events and the awards.
..........
Since you are so smart, then tell me how will I be able to restrict the registration of my fun fly to helicopters only?
Here is what I found on the Membership Manual that prompted me and previous CDs (I took this event over from another CD that had been doing it for over 5 years) to classify it the way it's been classified for the last 12 years.
3.10. Class C. An event with unrestricted entry to AMA members that may
or may not offer awards, or an organized get-together of modelers for
fellowship, mutual interests, and/or goodwill, and may or may not offer a
formal flying competition. A Class C event may be composed of special
events, fun-fly events, or any combination thereof. A description of these
events and any special safety precautions must be included with the sanction
application. HQ will communicate any suggested additional safety
requirements. The same date and area protection applies as in A contests. If
restricted following the guidelines for Class B events, it should be listed as
“C-restricted.”
or may not offer awards, or an organized get-together of modelers for
fellowship, mutual interests, and/or goodwill, and may or may not offer a
formal flying competition. A Class C event may be composed of special
events, fun-fly events, or any combination thereof. A description of these
events and any special safety precautions must be included with the sanction
application. HQ will communicate any suggested additional safety
requirements. The same date and area protection applies as in A contests. If
restricted following the guidelines for Class B events, it should be listed as
“C-restricted.”
3.2. Class B Contest. Entry is restricted to, or preference or priority is given
to, members of a club or clubs; or to an organization affiliated with the
AMA; or to residents of a confined area, such as a city or county.
3.2.1. Entry to a contest may be restricted on an area, club membership, or
invitational basis. It may also be restricted to the members of a particular
industry or service. It is essential, however, that these restrictions be spelled
out in detail on the application for sanction so that the contest coordinator
may decide whether conflicts exist. For example, an armed forces contest
would not conflict with a civilian contest. Similarly, a manufacturer’s
invitational would not conflict with a club contest. These will be listed as
Class B contests. No protected-drawing-area criteria will be applied to Class
B contests.
to, members of a club or clubs; or to an organization affiliated with the
AMA; or to residents of a confined area, such as a city or county.
3.2.1. Entry to a contest may be restricted on an area, club membership, or
invitational basis. It may also be restricted to the members of a particular
industry or service. It is essential, however, that these restrictions be spelled
out in detail on the application for sanction so that the contest coordinator
may decide whether conflicts exist. For example, an armed forces contest
would not conflict with a civilian contest. Similarly, a manufacturer’s
invitational would not conflict with a club contest. These will be listed as
Class B contests. No protected-drawing-area criteria will be applied to Class
B contests.
Rafael
12-08-2008, 01:49 PM
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RE: Class C-Restricted?
Rafael23cc,
Don't worrie about hoss's comments. He was way off topic and I think your right. I posted earler but I used the word that decribed dec 25th and my post had to be removed according to the rules.
Just send in your forms and you will be fine. We have never restricted anyone from our events. We even allow those heli and warbirds guys in to fly. Have a Merry Dec 25th to all of you.
Crash99 and Family
Don't worrie about hoss's comments. He was way off topic and I think your right. I posted earler but I used the word that decribed dec 25th and my post had to be removed according to the rules.
Just send in your forms and you will be fine. We have never restricted anyone from our events. We even allow those heli and warbirds guys in to fly.
Have a Merry Dec 25th to all of you.Crash99 and Family
12-08-2008, 04:30 PM
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RE: Class C-Restricted?
Looks like I missed some drama while I was at work. Thanks for the additional info fellas.
Reading over what was posted it appears there might be some clarification required in the rule book if folks can read the same thing but interpret differently. That's typical for most technical order pubs I deal with everyday. Stuff like that keeps me very busy at work.
I've started to read over the Membership manual. I forgot I had downloaded it back on '07. I cannot get to the '08 manual. It's off line right now. [link]http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/Memanual.PDF[/link]
Thanks again for the info. I definitely know a lot more about Class C-Restricted than I did before.
I think being a CD is going to be fun. Not sure if my club even has one anymore. Which reminds me. Once a CD always a CD if you follow the rules? I didn't see that stated anywhere.
Frank
PS I do agree that is seems like the CD is the "workhorse" of the organization. Kinda like a Senior NCO or a Company Grade Officer in the military.
Reading over what was posted it appears there might be some clarification required in the rule book if folks can read the same thing but interpret differently. That's typical for most technical order pubs I deal with everyday. Stuff like that keeps me very busy at work.
I've started to read over the Membership manual. I forgot I had downloaded it back on '07. I cannot get to the '08 manual. It's off line right now. [link]http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/Memanual.PDF[/link]
Thanks again for the info. I definitely know a lot more about Class C-Restricted than I did before.
I think being a CD is going to be fun. Not sure if my club even has one anymore. Which reminds me. Once a CD always a CD if you follow the rules? I didn't see that stated anywhere.
Frank
PS I do agree that is seems like the CD is the "workhorse" of the organization. Kinda like a Senior NCO or a Company Grade Officer in the military.
12-09-2008, 12:32 AM
#21
RE: Class C-Restricted?
Rafael23cc:
Since you are so smart, then tell me how will I be able to restrict the registration of my fun fly to helicopters only?
Since you are so smart, then tell me how will I be able to restrict the registration of my fun fly to helicopters only?
If all CDs used "Fly-In" vice "Fun Fly" when the event is noncompetitive that too would assist in deleting confusion. However that is NOT a required item. The term "Fun Fly" is used with the "Competition Fun Fly", RB event 705.
Now go back and read the AMA rules you posted with an open mind, and you will find that what I have described is exactly what they say. >>>> Ref. Class C Events: The same date and area protection applies as in A contests. If restricted following the guidelines for Class B events, it should be listed as “C-restricted.”<<<<
Now go to Class B CONTESTS, as found under Sanctioned Events. Class B CONTESTS are described there, yet not mentioned in Contest Coordinator Guidelines. That is because no separation protection is provided for "B" contests or for "C-R" events. The restrictions for the B contest are only for PEOPLE.
The official Competition Regulations, General section, has no mention of C and C-R events. C and C-R are only found in the Membership Manual. Again IMO it's all a plan to keep the troops confused. HA!
DB decided that no event restricting any AMA PERSON from joining in the event would receive any distance protection in the coordination process. This all came into play when IMAA became a Significant Interest Group (SIG) and came under AMA's Insurance Plan by agreeing to require all IMAA members also be AMA members. I CDed IMAA events for a number of years, but not anymore. After much complaining to both AMA and IMAA with no response, I gave it up as it only created problems within the club. IMAA is the big loser, and AMA also loses because some folks just quit sponsoring events. Yes, I SPONSORED a number of IMAA events. Now I don't even CD any AMA Big Bird events.
The entire region of Sanctioned Events, along with all the associated sections contain a significant amount of poorly written and confusing information. Even so in the various events as changes are made but the proposer fails to identify all the associated items. Just a couple weeks ago I found some very bad information in the RC Scale event. I notified the Technical director and he went to the Scale Contest Board Chairman. They agreed and the new book is being corrected as we speak. You see AMA CAN be very responsive when they want to. OTOH it can work exactly 180° opposite.
Back in the late '70s I was involved in a project to rewrite the confusion and disorganization out of the Rule Book. So many others in that project only wanted to use the project to write in their own favorite rules. The project floundered and died. Just another example how some will always screw up what is started as a big help for all concerned.
Rafael, I don't claim to be so smart, however as a CD since 1963, I have to learn something if nothing except by osmosis. Experience is a great teacher if one is willing to add study and dedication to performing correctly. As a young person, I learned that simply doing what someone told you was a quick way to not be informed. So you go and interpret the regulations as you wish. At least now you have gone and found them all. How you follow them is your business.
In all reality, I doubt that whatever you or I do will have any effect on the next day's sunrise. Play it as you see it.
12-09-2008, 10:16 AM
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RE: Class C-Restricted?
I gotta agree with Hoss on this one,
Retricted limits the whos, not the whats, per 3.2
3.12 <snip> If restricted following the guidelines for Class B events, it should be listed as
“C-restricted.”
3.2. Class B Contest. Entry is restricted to, or preference or priority is given
to, members of a club or clubs; or to an organization affiliated with the
AMA; or to residents of a confined area, such as a city or county"
According to the oposite view of the rule,
they would have to list a club swap meet at the hilton as C-Restricted to no-flying,
how else would folks know to not fly turbines or 40% Yaks inside the conference room swapmeet.
Retricted limits the whos, not the whats, per 3.2
3.12 <snip> If restricted following the guidelines for Class B events, it should be listed as
“C-restricted.”
3.2. Class B Contest. Entry is restricted to, or preference or priority is given
to, members of a club or clubs; or to an organization affiliated with the
AMA; or to residents of a confined area, such as a city or county"
According to the oposite view of the rule,
they would have to list a club swap meet at the hilton as C-Restricted to no-flying,
how else would folks know to not fly turbines or 40% Yaks inside the conference room swapmeet.
12-09-2008, 10:40 AM
#23
RE: Class C-Restricted?
ORIGINAL: Hossfly
You simply list your event as a Fun Fly Event for Helicopters, such as, "XXX Club Helicopter Fun Fly." or whatever. A few airplane guys that do not read may show up, however you tell them that they were not invited.
You simply list your event as a Fun Fly Event for Helicopters, such as, "XXX Club Helicopter Fun Fly." or whatever. A few airplane guys that do not read may show up, however you tell them that they were not invited.
Now go back and read the AMA rules you posted with an open mind, and you will find that what I have described is exactly what they say. >>>> Ref. Class C Events: The same date and area protection applies as in A contests. If restricted following the guidelines for Class B events, it should be listed as “C-restricted.”<<<<
Now go to Class B CONTESTS, as found under Sanctioned Events. Class B CONTESTS are described there, yet not mentioned in Contest Coordinator Guidelines. That is because no separation protection is provided for "B" contests or for "C-R" events. The restrictions for the B contest are only for PEOPLE.
The official Competition Regulations, General section, has no mention of C and C-R events. C and C-R are only found in the Membership Manual. Again IMO it's all a plan to keep the troops confused. HA!
Now go to Class B CONTESTS, as found under Sanctioned Events. Class B CONTESTS are described there, yet not mentioned in Contest Coordinator Guidelines. That is because no separation protection is provided for "B" contests or for "C-R" events. The restrictions for the B contest are only for PEOPLE.
The official Competition Regulations, General section, has no mention of C and C-R events. C and C-R are only found in the Membership Manual. Again IMO it's all a plan to keep the troops confused. HA!
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
According to the oposite view of the rule,
they would have to list a club swap meet at the hilton as C-Restricted to no-flying,
how else would folks know to not fly turbines or 40% Yaks inside the conference room swapmeet.
According to the oposite view of the rule,
they would have to list a club swap meet at the hilton as C-Restricted to no-flying,
how else would folks know to not fly turbines or 40% Yaks inside the conference room swapmeet.
You can also go here to quench your thirst for knowledge:[link=http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/calendar.aspx]AMA Contest Calendar[/link]
Rafael
12-09-2008, 11:57 AM
#24
RE: Class C-Restricted?
It seemed pretty simple to me. If you don't have a rulebook event, are not doing strickly demos, and are not catering to a select group of people, it would be a non-rulebook (class C) event with the restriction of only helis being flown that day. When we do the speed rally, we do class C since it isn't a rulebook event but restrict the event's activity to doing speed passes.
We also add that we will do buddy box instructor flights.
For our pylon race I entered it as a class C but when the sanction came back they changed it to A with restrictions since we were following 424 so closely. My thinking in going in as C was I didn't want to deal with the anal crowd about every little technicality under 424 (wing numbers etc) but I'll work with it.
We also add that we will do buddy box instructor flights.
For our pylon race I entered it as a class C but when the sanction came back they changed it to A with restrictions since we were following 424 so closely. My thinking in going in as C was I didn't want to deal with the anal crowd about every little technicality under 424 (wing numbers etc) but I'll work with it.
12-09-2008, 01:16 PM
#25
RE: Class C-Restricted?
ORIGINAL: vicman
It seemed pretty simple to me. If you don't have a rulebook event, are not doing strickly demos, and are not catering to a select group of people, it would be a non-rulebook (class C) event with the restriction of only helis being flown that day. When we do the speed rally, we do class C since it isn't a rulebook event but restrict the event's activity to doing speed passes.
We also add that we will do buddy box instructor flights.
For our pylon race I entered it as a class C but when the sanction came back they changed it to A with restrictions since we were following 424 so closely. My thinking in going in as C was I didn't want to deal with the anal crowd about every little technicality under 424 (wing numbers etc) but I'll work with it.
It seemed pretty simple to me. If you don't have a rulebook event, are not doing strickly demos, and are not catering to a select group of people, it would be a non-rulebook (class C) event with the restriction of only helis being flown that day. When we do the speed rally, we do class C since it isn't a rulebook event but restrict the event's activity to doing speed passes.
We also add that we will do buddy box instructor flights.
For our pylon race I entered it as a class C but when the sanction came back they changed it to A with restrictions since we were following 424 so closely. My thinking in going in as C was I didn't want to deal with the anal crowd about every little technicality under 424 (wing numbers etc) but I'll work with it.
When Dave Platt succeeded in separating all Scale events into a separate Catergory for model competition purposes, an agreement was made that any event where static scale judging was performed, then such event would be under the SCALE Category. Then came an event, originated in Saint Louis, later got reenergized by Jim Allen, then out in Phoenix, and became very popular there and from there to Sacremento CA. I brought it here to the Houston area and was successful for some 3 years but it then drifted away. The event was Scale WarBird Racing with 1/2 the score static judging and 1/2 racing. I tried for several years to get the event in the rulebook but it was snuffed by the hard-core scale folks, as well as the hard-core racers which finally killed the event completely with a continous creeping of the racing over scale.
All in all, the personal interests of a few finally kept a great event, as initially developed, from popular activity simply because they were only interested in THEIR own interest and not that of the overall good that such an event was providing for the basic sport flier with an ARF and not afraid to chase others around the pylons.
Back to C-R. When that event was sanctioned, it had to be "C" It was NOT Rulebook so all RB events are eliminated. Only C and C-R remain as it was NOT a demonstration but active competition in both static scale and racing. The RULES for the event adequately restricted the machines that could be entered. Any AMA member was elgible to enter his/her WARBIRD which was better defined as a prop-driven airplane active 1935 through 1948 or about those times, therefore C-R was eliminated because all AMA members were elgible. BTW, Waivers for the Pylon distance rules were required.
You have a pylon race. Pylon has additional safety rules that are a continuation of the official Safety Code. If AMA should have a problem with your sanction application, that is where it will most likely be.
Now in the sanction application is a spot where you define the difference between your event and the official RB wording.
Page 1: >>>> Club Name _______________________________________ Club # ______________
If event is restricted to members of a certain organization or group, indicate the name
of the group here. DO NOT LIST TYPES OF AIRCRAFT HERE. (If this is the
case the event must be sanctioned as a Class B or C-Restricted event.)<<<<
NOTICE: If you restrict to people it is B or C-R. FORGET the airplanes.
Then on the bottom of the page, item #4
>>>>>Section 4 - Event Rules Deviation Information
You must list any deviations from the current rulebook below. The AMA Technical Director must approve all deviations from the rule book. Any approved deviations must be handled as indicated in the AMA Competition Regulations. General Information section, under Contest Directors.
Additionally, list all other events not indicated in Section 5 of this application. Any special safety precautions should also be indicated below.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
So Folks, you are informed in the regs, you are prompted in the forms. My course in C-R 101 is NOW complete. If you fail to get that "A" don't blame the instructor.