squeakalong

My Feedback: (8)

Just wondering about our AMA Plan Service and their rather high pricing of said model plans. A good look at recent offerings and those of the past should give you an idea of what my concern is. With the talk of more and more people getting away from actually building their own models from plans I seriously wonder if our own "Not-For-Profit-Organization" is, in reality, contributing to the delema by driving plan builders away. I for one have looked at a number of the AMA plan offerings and due to the high price have either gone elsewhere to make the purchase or just not ordered the plan. How the heck can youngsters and those with family afford some of the AMA plans today? You would think that the AMA would price these plans so that modelers could readily purchase all they wanted and thereby contribute to the longevity of the model building hobby. Another idea I have thought about, to promote more model building today, is for our AMA to offer one free plan per year per registered AMA member as a "thank-you" and encouragement towards model building of all types. Perhaps after, say 10 years membership, a couple of free plans per year would be a nice reward to loyal members.

Do you purchase plans from our AMA Plan Department and what's your view on the organization's pricing for modeling plans you might like to have in your own shop? Let's hear your thoughts.

Soft landings.

The Toolman

I'd say that the ama has went from a modeler friendly org. to a "Lets screw who we can to feather our own nest" biz.

The only reason I signed up again this year was to keep our little clubs charter intact. If I would have dropped out, they would have been 1 short.......


Ron

Mode One

Are they higher then others? Have you asked the AMA why the plans are so expensive? I'm going to take a look at this now and see if they do seem overpriced. If they are, I'll mention it somewhere, to someone. Maybe if they knew we were unhappy about it, they would do something about it.

Kemosobie

Please cite some examples of what you think is overpriced. What plans did you compare with what company?

Mode One

I did a litlle research and tried to compare apple to apples. This is difficult to do and a wonder if it's worth trying to find clear comparisons, because there is so much variety in what's available. Following my interests in World War One Aeroplanes, I found RCM offered a plan set for 71 inch span Hanriot for $17.50. There are 1/4th scale plans for a Bristol Scout D at AMA that cost $56.00 and Clevelend offers plans for an Albatros DIII for $33.00. Arizona Model Crafters offers 1/4th scale plans for an Albatros DIII for $65.00.

I felt compelled to use plans that I have actually seen, if I could. The RCM Hanriot plans are very nice, 71 inch span puts it between 1/5th scale and 1/4th scale. The 1/4th scale Bristol Scout D plans from AMA are extremely high quality and there are 4 pages of them. It's my understanding, the the Arizona 1/4th scale Albatros DIII plans are actually Dave Johnsons plans. My guess is they are very good, I have seen his 1/3rd scale plans in MAN and think they are great. You can buy these from Dave Johnson for less then $65.00. I won't quote price as the price is Daves peropgative. I don't really know much about the quailty of the Cleveland plans for a 1/4th scale Albatros DIII, so can't say anything about them, however $33.00 ain't chump change, either!

I suggest people shop for plans. However with the prices of plans being all over the place, I don't think AMA is over charging, as there certainly are more expensive plans out there. I don't have the inclination to do any further research, when the little I dd seems to find AMA's plans to be competitive.

Kemosobie

Plus AMA gives a 10% discount to AMA members

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I think the prices are high. I can't look at this as much of a member benefit. If sales are crisp, they know what they're doing at the business end...but who knows how many would be builders they have jaded?
Mode One, for the price of 1 set of plans for the planes you build I could buy enough balsa to build 3 little RC planes. So what I miss most are the magazine issues that used to include full size or 1/2 size plans.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

they probably just do not want to be accused of underselling the market, like has happened with add rates in the magazine.

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

I bought plans for Doc Matthews' 4-60, once kitted by Ace. Seemed reasonable. I, for one, am glad the AMA preserved these plans and maintains the records and a printer.

Free? I want to sign up at YOUR business!
Dave Olson

squeakalong

My Feedback: (8)

Gentlemen, I wasn't thinking in terms of comparing apples to oranges to anything else for that matter. What I was thinking about is the fact that this is a national aircraft modeling organization, one that professes to be non-profit and to have modelers interests at heart, and yet they offer many plans at a price that can/does turn modeling people away. I would think the first order of business would be to get people of ALL ages interested in building models and increase the ranks within the organization. Pricing the plans at a lower cost could, and most certainly would, make it easier to afford the opportunity of creating a model that is different and interesting from that "same old plane" view we now get on the flightline. I really don't care what other plan sellers are selling their plans for. This isn't about pricing from a "for profit" business. I am interested in promoting the building and flying of models from generations of great plan offerings within our national aircraft modeling organization. Get the price of those plans down to a point where lots of folks, young and old, WANT to order them and WANT to take an interest in this great hobby and WANT to see the hobby grow. AMA membership could very well benefit.

Joe
AMA 57750

MikeL

My Feedback: (3)

Joe, you seem out of touch with reality. I don't know any kids that build from plans. None. Nadda. Zip. And it's not a function of the cost of the plans. You could give them away, and it wouldn't change the number of kids that build from plans. I've yet to meet anyone who has told me that they don't participate in this hobby because of the cost of plans. The cost of fuel, time, electronics, and all of the more conventional costs? You bet. Plans? No.

Don't attempt to roll a populist theory into your desire to see lower plan prices. It doesn't work.

KidEpoxy

Tons of young folk ( <25 ) build from plans.
We just have to first accept that they build with Blue FFF, Depron, and Coroplast from plans.
Considering all the free plans for these planes on the web, one might say the average cost of those plans is darn near $0.


Other magazines have/do put pullout plans inside,
but MA dont?

We can offer a free Tshirt, but not a free plan for taking a survey?



Heres a what if scenario for consideration:
Send a free plan to the members (MA pullout?).. something generic like a 4star / P51,
then for the next 4 months have a build along article in MA.
heck, it might be able to be done as a Club Build winter meeting activity

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

There are kids out there building from plans, not just solo but some as a father / son deal. The real shame is that the average model builders who I happen to know [I won't pretend that I know them all], looks at the economics of the situation and stays with building from kits. There are guys at the 1/2A forum who offer free plans and there has been a tremendous anount of scratch building as a result. These guys are doing the job that the AMA could be doing, thanklessly.

Stickbuilder

There is a simple alternative to paying what you think is too much for a published plan. Draw your own. I'm currently drawing my own plan for a 27% YMF, and it will be derived from the factory blueprint that I have, so the scale should be on the money. If I can do it, there is no reason that you can't.

Bill, AMA 4720
Waco Brother #1

AERORICH73

Squeakalong: In my discussion with the plans department, I was told that the pricing is based on the size, and number of plan pages. In doing so, the listed prices are out in fairy land. Some of the plans I purchase from them were very poor copies of blueprints. Discussing the price issue, I found that they had dug in heels over reducing them, and really did not care if anyone purchased them. I totally agree that as a prime mover in the hobby, that some though should be given to promoting building models from plans, and not just the .25 size planes either. Maybe a select few trainer plans would bring some interest to join the AMA, and local clubs. A few years ago, I sent four kits and engines to a school back East that a teacher had a building plan with his students. Received some photos of students with wide smiles in showing their constructed planes. They had a pilot training program in the summer which really locked the students into the program. It really does not matter if only 10% of the youth participate. Some of the 10% could become involve in the Space programs.

[email protected]

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

The thread is about buying plans, not self designing.

Hossfly

First, I do not now buy many plans. I build from kits, short kits, self designs, and sometimes combining stuff from crashes. I like to just do things different than the typical ARF.
I do have a significant number of Old Timer and kit plans. I have the last catalog, I think, that the late John Pond published, 1999-2000 combined for all disciplines. John Pond was a fantastic person, and he maintained the most abundant amount of existing model airplane history in his fantastic collection, which is now in the hands of AMA.

Looking through that catalog and some of AMA's pricings for such plans, AMA's prices are right in line with the catalog, of 9 years ago.

I did not check the plans from AMA's MA magazine.

I am currently doing several old kits for a renewed interest in Old Time CL Stunt.
Ringmaster, one S-1 flying, an F and B Viking for a Super Cyclone on spark, almost ready to go and a Veco Classic Thunderbird 2, just started, one of which I won many trophies with, back in the early '60s. (Off topic, they won't allow the modifications I made back then to make that machine a First Class Stunt Machine.)
So back to topic, I am familiar with old plans and prices and I see no big problem there, with AMA.

Mongo offered a fair statement which I suggest may have a very profound effect on the plans business.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Stick

If you didn't charge too much,I would be very interested in a copy of the plans when your done building, flying and evaluating the design.

seriously...a 27% YMF sounds just about right, although a 1/3 is also possible but maybe a little too expensive. A YMF is one of the few planes I hope to build in the future.

Mode One

I said interest, not ownership! Because of my economic situation at present, I won't be buying even the $17.50 RCM's plans for the Hanriot HD1!

And so, you guys have come across another method of pushing home derision between the troops I see, and that is: big plane/small plane.

I have to ask; where are you finding AMA's cost on small plans to be too high, because that just ain't what I saw yesterday!

MikeL

My Feedback: (3)

I'm sort of wondering if the AMA forum here is a form of purgatory. The denizens of this particular corner of RCU are never happy, never satisfied, and would complain if they were offered both happiness and satisfaction. It's not enough... It's too much... It should be some other way... There's a conspiracy... They did it in the backroom... I've been slighted... You can't possibly understand... I'd provide details, but the details are on double-secret probation...

RCPAUL

My Feedback: (1)

I'm sort of wondering if the AMA forum here is a form of purgatory. The denizens of this particular corner of RCU are never happy, never satisfied, and would complain if they were offered both happiness and satisfaction. It's not enough... It's too much... It should be some other way... There's a conspiracy... They did it in the backroom... I've been slighted... You can't possibly understand... I'd provide details, but the details are on double-secret probation...

MikeL - You hit this one on the mark!

Paul

Muroc1

Hey now, is this a bit of negativity I am seeing?

Frank

propbuster

My Feedback: (1)

I think it's great that the AMA has these plans on file and available to us. As far as the price, they're okay in my book. Have you bought any Balsa stock lately? Also, the only guys I know of still building from scratch are us old farts. Oh, yeah, and our dads!!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Mode 1, like I said earlier, there are brothers in this hobby who offer the plans for the cost of postage, who do it in the spirit of modeling. This is what I base my opinion of AMA's pricing on.
There is no big plane / little plane derision being attempted. I just tried to point out the vast difference in cost. No need to transmutate it into something else.
So far, Mongo's point about underselling is the one that makes sense..........but at some point I think these plans should become the domain of the membership. The private individuals who are selling their own plans have taken up an enterprize that isn't going to put much food on the table, regardless of how much the AMA sells their plans for.

KidEpoxy

From the OP
I fail to see the negativity.

To oppose rewarding longtime AMA members,
would kinda be like opposing the Senior Discount... one is a reward & thankyou for years committed while the other is a thankyou & reward for years committed.


Perhaps it takes a national level entity to stimulate the Plans Building recession.
So the EC should look at taking immediate & decisive actions to inject Plans to stimulate us up some more Plans Building. Some say it would be just more EC spending, well, Plans Building stimulus is spending... thats what it is... thats the point. We as a national Academy need to inject some plans into Plans Building by EC spending some stimulus to promote model aeronautics out of the crisis its in.

When the AMA wanted more youthes, it spends stimulus to subsidize ($1 tier) more Yute Membership.
When the AMA wanted more PFs, it spends stimulus to subsidize ($29 tier) PF memberships
If AMA wants more Plans Building <or stop recession of plans building>,
it can spend stimulus to get more plans building stimulated out of its current funk / death spiral

or, we can get some popcorn and watch Aeromodel Building grind to a halt