abel_pranger

...the pathetic clown that wrote this crap:

"The development of the park flyer type of aircraft, and the ability of a nontraditional RC pilot (newbie) to go out anywhere space is available, have counteracted the positive public relations efforts of organized clubs. the new flyer has likely never heard of the AMA Safety Code, doesn't think twice about flying in unsuitable areas, and often performs antics that would make any club safety officer's blood boil."

Does he represent AMA.....you know, the 'world-class association of modelers organized for the purpose of promotion, development, education, advancement, and safeguarding of modeling activities?'

What is he telling public officials, including recreation and parks' governing boards?

When does his contract end?

What would it cost to buy him out of that contract before the term is up?

AMA has a loose cannon on deck.........or my agenda and AMA's real mission are at opposite poles.

Abel

Stickbuilder

Good question. But if you honestly evaluate the quote, it's not that idiotic. In fact, it's probably rooted in truth.

Bill, AMA 4720

Mode One

When you quote someone, why not state who made the quote? If you are quoting them verbatum, they have no basis for any litigation. What you've done above, seems rather "Gutless" to me!

Bob Mitchell

Abel, a couple of questions: Who is this individual, who/what was his audience, and what was the overall context of the comments? As Stick indicated, there is some element of truth there, I believe.

rcmiket

I have a question. What the point of this tread? Mike

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

At any given time 1/4 of the passengers on commercial jets are paid representatives of public entities enroute to conventions so that they can pass awards and plaques back and forth to each other, take snap shots of each other, then return home exhausted.
I think JC is pushing the "plaque exchange" program.....because he just needs a few more himself to completely tile the floor in his basement.

Abel, our country is already overloaded with worthless public officials who are now living on Easy Street with bought out contracts and outrageous severance packages..........so ya, what's the harm with one more?

If there is a major epidemic of AMA flyers running off the sons of public officials at City Parks, JC's article is news to me.
At this time a lot of City Governments are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy and obviously will be looking for any excuse to shutdown activities that prove to be a PITA. If JC's message gets through to some of our City Park flyers to be more accomodating with newbies [and to not forget that the use of the park is a priviledge, not a right] that's OK with me.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Posting anonymously is gutless in the first place! [>:] The quote was lifted from Jim Cherry's "View from Headquarters" in March 09 issue of Model Aviation. You have to read the whole article. The part quoted, out of context by Able Pranger, will make sense to most AMA members.

For those that toss the magazine without reading it here is the article.

We receive too many telephone calls or e-mails that start like this: "The local city council has just banned all model flying in the public parks. What can we do?"

Regretfully, it's often too late if the council has acted and the ordinance has passed. It is much harder to have a city ordinance repealed than to prevent one from passing.

Most city and county procedures call for multiple readings of a proposed ordinance before it can be enacted. Unless there is a reason to declare an emergency, the process usually takes time so that the public can be made aware of the proposal and has an opportunity to react.

This awareness process generally doesn't apply to recreation and parks' governing boards. Issues such as banning model flying have a greater chance of "flying under the radar" before action is taken. It is often too late to avert a ruling that a little public relations and community involvement might have prevented.

The development of the park flyer type of aircraft, and the ability of a nontraditional RC pilot (newbie) to go out and fly anywhere space is available, have counteracted the positive public relations efforts of organized clubs. The new flier has likely never heard of the AMA Safety Code, doesn't think twice about flying in unsuitable areas, and often performs antics that would make any club safety officer's blood boil.

My point is that clubs can never do too much building of good relations with the community, elected officials, and park governing boards.

There is an urban legend about losing a flying site. It is the story of a young dad going out to a flying site with his son, seeking help with a park flyer. The "gang" at the site basically told the man that they didn't mess with park flyer airplanes and he needed to take his "toy" elsewhere.

This young father happened to be the son of the mayor. The story goes on to reveal that the flying site was on city property and its lease was due to be renewed. You can guess the rest.

I'm amazed how well some clubs are able to build those important relationships in advance of a crisis or problem. I'm also astonished at the naiveté of other clubs that think they exist in a vacuum when it comes to the world around them.

While he was still the District IX vice president, Mark Smith invited Dave Mathewson and me to attend a local club meeting and participate in a ceremony awarding the members their Leader Club pins. The club had thought to invite two of the local officials to be a part of the celebration. As a part of the recognition ceremony, the club presented a plaque to the officials in appreciation of their support of the club.

As the credit-card commercial goes, cost of time inviting the officials: $15; cost of plaque: $20; goodwill generated by these small actions: priceless! Next time this club has a problem, the value of the relationships built by this action is incalculable.

If your club doesn't have a person responsible for public relations, consider the benefits of adding that position to the list of officers or committee to the club. It can pay dividends.

It has been said that locating things on AMA's Web site can be challenging. The site, www.modelaircraft.org, contains a wealth of information—if you can find it.

To help those such as myself, who sometimes find themselves broken down on this information super highway, an AMA Web site map can be found on page 150. I hope this guide will prove helpful in navigating this member resource. MA

In the spirit of flight.


Jim Cherry, Executive Director

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Isn't it obvious? To denigrate the AMA.

rcmiket

That's what I figured wanted to see if they would admit it. Mike

KidEpoxy

Thats not what I read-
Looks like he is trying to protect the AMA he loves from internal loose cannonage and persoanl disdains of JQPublic flyers.
Seems Abel wants AMA to cut its detrimental leaders, and that Abel sees this text as exposing something he sees as detrimental to the core AMA mission.

Bravo Abel,
way to stand up for what you see as a better & brighter AMA.




<hey, lookit that,
I talked about Abels opinion on the quoted guy
without mentioning my opniion of him at all.
Guess that means this thread dont have anything to do with my opinions of JC>

Bob Mitchell

Yeah, right.

And the best way to do that is by posting an out of context snip of what the man said, declining to identify who or where the comment was made, posting no additional information which would give ANY context of what the overall message was, calling the man a "bozo" and a "loose cannon", and not even attempting to address the issue itself in any way, shape or form that could be identified as constructive.

Good grief!

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

Red,

Thanks for posting that.

About the "Urban Legend" mentioned, let me share this one.

I do some flight instruction at one of my clubs, just call me the night before and I'll bring my trainer plane and control boxes. About 4 years ago, three young fellows drove a noisy Firebird in and parked, and got out asking if they could fly their new electric plane. The other guys directed them to me.

I asked if they were AMA members, and they weren't, so I offered to bring my training setup the next day, to give them a little stick time and an idea of what to expect. These guys were insistent, they didn't want to join the club or the AMA, they just wanted to fly the little plane.

I explained how everyone in the club helps pay the field rent and belongs to the AMA, but I could still offer them a little flight time on my plane. That was not what they were looking for, and they left.

We never saw those young fellows again, and I never heard of them getting in trouble. I sort of concluded they found an open field and destroyed the plane, and never looked back - but I really don't know that. I feel like I did everything I could for them.

Anyway, it is my impression that's what happens to a large share of those planes.

Best wishes,
Dave Olson

Robotech

My Feedback: (9)

Umm. Back to the OP.

Is the outrage due to Jim Cherry writing the paragraph or whether there is truth to the paragraph? I wish the OP would clarify.

I have no problem with an AMA official stating his opinions. Why shouldn't he?

There's allot of truth in the paragraph.

Where's the beef?

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

i don't see what was quoted as being out of context.
it reads the same in the complete printed version as it does quoted in the first post of this thread.
JC would appear to think that no flying can be done safely by any one not familiar with the AMA safety code, and that all non AMA flyers are just naturally going to be doing things that are unsafe and not suited for the local in which they are performed. He apparently believes that the only folks that can show modeling in a good light, are AMA club folks, and I, for one, know that that isn't always true.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

No way. Heck they won't even reveal their name and AMA number to verify if they are even members of the organization they constantly are pecking at. Typical of the bottom feeders in our hobby. They apparently have had little success being accepted on the local modeling scene so this is a convenient outlet for their frustration. Look at the bright side, without their constant fueling of dissension this forum would probably dry up.

rcmiket

I honestly believe that this this forum serves no useful purpose besides giving a few a place to play their games. It was bad 2 years ago and worst now. Something they can all be very proud of. Mike

Bob Mitchell

Certainly it was out of context. Without the balance of what he had to say, the meaning is entirely different. It is quite easy to accurately quote someone and by picking and choosing the right snippet, to be very misleading about what was actually said. For instance, I could quote you as saying "JC would appear to think that no flying can be done safely...".

Context is everything.

However, even in the out of context version, I believe you are putting words into his mouth. He didn't say (and I don't mean literally) that "no flying can be done by any one not familiar with the AMA safety code", or "that all non AMA flyers are just naturally going to be doing things that are unsafe", or that "the only folks that can show modeling in a good light are AMA....". Those are the meanings that you are ascribing to his words, and I don't think it is correct.

I believe that he did mean that many "park" flyers are unaware of the AMA safety code, that many of these same pilots will do things that are unsafe, and that AMA is an excellent resource for the positive promotion of modeling activities. That each of these three is true is rather obvious, I think.

KidEpoxy

Red
Abel Pranger wont tell you his name?
Cause when I look at the OP post, I see it came from Able_Pranger
... whoever that might be, no way to tell

In Recap:
When Hoss asks for AMA# & Name for questions in his candidate forum,
we hear how atrocious it is to ask for such personal data.... yet here we are again seeing demeaning others as Bottomfeeders for not posting that same personal data.

Really Red,
you should apologize to Abel Pranger for such comments about him & his thread.




Robo
You ask a good point for clearin up-
Is Abel upset that the guy JC voiced this hateful speech of JQPublic flyers,
or that he did spoke so poorly of JQPublic flyer as a representative of AMA.

Either way, the context of the insult is pretty clear.
That whole paragraph exists to say we need to be more visible as the good toy plane guys
instead of letting folks see the rest of the flying public that he cast as bad toy plane guys.
And it seems Abel Pranger does not think we should be casting everyone that is not AMA as badguys.




Bob
If we identify the issues, which do you think didnt get addressed?
a) An AMA official was insulting non-AMA flyers in the column granted by his position
b) ANY ama member or official would consider insulting non-ama flyers as an ok thing to do

Cause, we have see it again & again the bad apples of AMA treating non-members poorly in deed & word, and I just dont see us here getting enough attention to the bad PR and Us vs Them warfare that breeds outside hate of the AMA. I would say it should get its own thread, but we've had plenty of those threads here already
so lest just consider the issue of AMA BadApple Disdain Of Nonmembers as an unfixable problem

Mode One

Is this an assertion that the Abel_Pranger of this thread is not one-and-the-same Abel_Pranger that haunts this AMA Forum? Your stating this isn't the same Abel_Pranger that 99 out of his last 100 posts have been right here in the AMA Forum? Wow, KidEpoxy, this is certainly anomalous!

Kemosobie

I wonder what model flyers did before 1936? Must have been complete chaos

KidEpoxy

Kemo-
I believe we've already had a description of that kind of pre-AMA membership thing,
I'll interpret it to your question:

The development of the park flyer type of aircraft <<< like 049's>>>,
and the ability of a nontraditional <<< non-AMA>>>
model plane pilot to go out and fly anywhere space is available,<mumble>
doesn't think twice about flying in unsuitable areas,
and often performs antics that would make any club safety officer's blood boil.

That must be what it was like,
when everyone was the non-ama guys we hear about these days.



I based that text on something someone said about flyers that dont have AMA,
it clearly is not a quote, and I make no claims that is it a quote.....
nobody said nuthin and I'm not tellin youse anyhows

Bob Mitchell

More of your stuff and nonsense, KE. You'll jump at any half-baked chance to take pot-shots at AMA leadership, it seems.

Here's what was actually said, one piece at a time:

"The new flier has likely never heard of the AMA Safety Code............., "

Do you deny that this is probably true? I don't see an insult there. Can't imagine where you do.

".....doesn't think twice about flying in unsuitable areas.....,"

Do you deny that this is probably true? Or do ALL of these folks understand what a suitable flying area is, due to their in-depth knowledge of guidance provided by an expert organizations safety code? 15 minutes on UTube or an hour or so on internet forums will supply ample examples that many of these new pilots DON'T know what really constitutes a suitable flying area. I've seen it for myself in a park not 3 miles from my home. Some do. Many don't.

".....and often performs antics that would make any club safety officer's blood boil."

See comments above about UTube and internet forums. Note that the operative word is "often", and not "always".

Now, in the overall context of the column, if you choose to take all of this as a "bad apple" AMA official using his position to deliberately insult pilots, "treating non-members poorly", or an "us vs them" AMA warfare, then your thoughts are far enough out in left field to be nothing more than the typical ax-grinding of AMA that a few of you here are so fond of.

It's nonsense, and I believe you know it's nonsense.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

bob,
go do what i did today.
show the article to some non ama type flyers, 17 so far, and see what they think about it.
100% of the 17 i allowed to read it, so far, took it as insulting to them.
i guess one mans nonsense is anothers insult.
being that we, ama types, would really like to incorporate the non ama types in with us, we should not be insulting to THEM.

Kemosobie

His 15 posts of fame is about up!

804

My Feedback: (1)

Mmmm, my favorite popcorn(Black Jewell, un-buttered), and a big brouhaha to read about after work. Love it!

I read the article last night, and immediately figured Abel, LCS, or KE would be all over it.

But, rightfully so IMO.

After reading it twice, I thought the offending paragraph should have been omitted (EDITED?). Why insult folks with a broad generalization, (which is, I'm certain, untrue more often than not), and therefore cloud what is otherwise a valuable message?

Seems like they could use some brains up there in Muncie.