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Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
09-29-2009, 02:06 PM
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Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
All the discussion about the "USAMA" insurance company has generated something interesting.
Several people have said they would be potentially interested in USAMA in addition to AMA because USAMA says they offer primary insurance.
So, the poll questions is this:
Would you be willing to pay $78.00 for your membership in AMA if they offered primary insurance coverage for all models in addition to the other benefits they already offer along with their efforts in support of model aviation?
For those that may not have seen the other threads: $78.00 = $58.00 current AMA dues + $20.00 advertised USAMA cost.
Several people have said they would be potentially interested in USAMA in addition to AMA because USAMA says they offer primary insurance.
So, the poll questions is this:
Would you be willing to pay $78.00 for your membership in AMA if they offered primary insurance coverage for all models in addition to the other benefits they already offer along with their efforts in support of model aviation?
For those that may not have seen the other threads: $78.00 = $58.00 current AMA dues + $20.00 advertised USAMA cost.
09-29-2009, 02:15 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
Some part of that $58 is for insurance already so I don't think that would be the number if AMA offered it.
09-29-2009, 02:32 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
ORIGINAL: R0bBeckett
Some part of that $58 is for insurance already so I don't think that would be the number if AMA offered it.
Some part of that $58 is for insurance already so I don't think that would be the number if AMA offered it.
That is likely true, but I don't have any way of establishing any sort of factual number, so I kept it simple based on the posts I have seen where people have said they may get both, thus spending $78.00.
09-29-2009, 02:34 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
Will this PRimary AMA insurance be
* Any kind of fuel
* No safety code fly responsibility
* $1 million PRIMARY liability insurance
* NO deductibles to members
cause those features would help sell this AMA Primary idea
At $78 it sounds like you use AMA Primary $1mil NoSC No Deductible up first,
then, whatever additional liability would be covered by your AMA Secondary that depends on following the SC and has its deductable
That might appeal to a lot of folks,
guys that are willing to pay a little more for No Questions No Deductible primary ins from the AMA
* Any kind of fuel
* No safety code fly responsibility
* $1 million PRIMARY liability insurance
* NO deductibles to members
cause those features would help sell this AMA Primary idea
At $78 it sounds like you use AMA Primary $1mil NoSC No Deductible up first,
then, whatever additional liability would be covered by your AMA Secondary that depends on following the SC and has its deductable
That might appeal to a lot of folks,
guys that are willing to pay a little more for No Questions No Deductible primary ins from the AMA
09-29-2009, 02:48 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
Why would I want to do that, I have no deductable today........ my Homeowners pays first (primary) and the AMA (secondary) then covers the deductable?
09-29-2009, 03:07 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
Let's say,
Any kind of fuel
An increased weight limit
Still need a safety code of some sort (to protect me from dangerous paintballers
)
Amount = to or > whatever USAMA may end up offering (but $1 million sounds good)
I would vote to still have a deductible so that people at least think about consequences before doing something stupid.
Additionally, lets say it covers member to member injury (i.e. no "accepted risk" for be at the field when someone pulls out a paintballgun)
Since I am not an insurance person, lets just try to keep this to simple question asked.
The AMA folks can figure it out, I'm just the idea man!!!
Any kind of fuel
An increased weight limit
Still need a safety code of some sort (to protect me from dangerous paintballers
)Amount = to or > whatever USAMA may end up offering (but $1 million sounds good)
I would vote to still have a deductible so that people at least think about consequences before doing something stupid.
Additionally, lets say it covers member to member injury (i.e. no "accepted risk" for be at the field when someone pulls out a paintballgun
)Since I am not an insurance person, lets just try to keep this to simple question asked.
The AMA folks can figure it out, I'm just the idea man!!!
09-29-2009, 03:10 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
ORIGINAL: bradpaul
Why would I want to do that, I have no deductable today........ my Homeowners pays first (primary) and the AMA (secondary) then covers the deductable?
Why would I want to do that, I have no deductable today........ my Homeowners pays first (primary) and the AMA (secondary) then covers the deductable?
I don't know why you would want to do that.
I have insurance also and joined AMA to support model aviation. But apparently some have made comments that they would consider joining both for additional coverage, so I am just curious.
09-29-2009, 03:10 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
BradPaul-
how does that work... say for you hitting somebodys car with your model plane and have to pay $2000 for repairs?
You say your HO will pay the $2000 but you pay them your HO deductible $X00,
then you tell AMA you had to pay $X00 and AMA secondary pays it, but you have to pay the AMA $250 deductible?
What will you do if AMA says you were in blatant violation of the SC and dont want to pay? (as is their right)
I would think it would be cool to have No Questions No Deductible primary pilots ins
for when we crash into the Pilot Station cage and it needs $27 of repair,
or when we put a $200 .40ARF into the side of a $8000 Scalemaster Supreme... I'm pretty certain the guy with the now $8 Scrapmaster Subpar will appreciate the other guy having insurance for that collision
Right?
Current AMA has no model on model coverage,
but the new No Question No Deductable $78 AMA $1mil Primary would
how does that work... say for you hitting somebodys car with your model plane and have to pay $2000 for repairs?
You say your HO will pay the $2000 but you pay them your HO deductible $X00,
then you tell AMA you had to pay $X00 and AMA secondary pays it, but you have to pay the AMA $250 deductible?
What will you do if AMA says you were in blatant violation of the SC and dont want to pay? (as is their right)
I would think it would be cool to have No Questions No Deductible primary pilots ins
for when we crash into the Pilot Station cage and it needs $27 of repair,
or when we put a $200 .40ARF into the side of a $8000 Scalemaster Supreme... I'm pretty certain the guy with the now $8 Scrapmaster Subpar will appreciate the other guy having insurance for that collision
Right?
Current AMA has no model on model coverage,
but the new No Question No Deductable $78 AMA $1mil Primary would
09-29-2009, 03:15 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
I would vote to still have a deductible so that people at least think about consequences before doing something stupid.
Violations of the new SC would result in 100% deductible aka Not Covered
Why punish honest accident victims in an attempt to punish violators... just punish the violators directly
09-29-2009, 04:11 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
When I hit a car at the 1980 Nats, my homeowners paid the whole thing, no deductable.
09-29-2009, 04:46 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
BradPaul-
how does that work... say for you hitting somebodys car with your model plane and have to pay $2000 for repairs?
You say your HO will pay the $2000 but you pay them your HO deductible $X00,
then you tell AMA you had to pay $X00 and AMA secondary pays it, but you have to pay the AMA $250 deductible?
What will you do if AMA says you were in blatant violation of the SC and dont want to pay? (as is their right)
I would think it would be cool to have No Questions No Deductible primary pilots ins
for when we crash into the Pilot Station cage and it needs $27 of repair,
or when we put a $200 .40ARF into the side of a $8000 Scalemaster Supreme... I'm pretty certain the guy with the now $8 Scrapmaster Subpar will appreciate the other guy having insurance for that collision
Right?
Current AMA has no model on model coverage,
but the new No Question No Deductable $78 AMA $1mil Primary would
BradPaul-
how does that work... say for you hitting somebodys car with your model plane and have to pay $2000 for repairs?
You say your HO will pay the $2000 but you pay them your HO deductible $X00,
then you tell AMA you had to pay $X00 and AMA secondary pays it, but you have to pay the AMA $250 deductible?
What will you do if AMA says you were in blatant violation of the SC and dont want to pay? (as is their right)
I would think it would be cool to have No Questions No Deductible primary pilots ins
for when we crash into the Pilot Station cage and it needs $27 of repair,
or when we put a $200 .40ARF into the side of a $8000 Scalemaster Supreme... I'm pretty certain the guy with the now $8 Scrapmaster Subpar will appreciate the other guy having insurance for that collision
Right?
Current AMA has no model on model coverage,
but the new No Question No Deductable $78 AMA $1mil Primary would
So two pilots are getting tired of there planes and they "lets say manage to have an incident" that destroys both planes and the new insurance will pay???????
So No question, No deductable will pay for my crashes, no questions asked? Somehow I don't think so.
09-29-2009, 04:58 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
I voted no because my concern is not with insurance. The AMA should be promoting a capital drive projcet large enough to fund the aqusition of 200 RC fields across the country, that are then leased back to AMA clubs. If that takes years and many millions of $ so be it. Privately owned flying sites are the future of the hobby not insurance coverage. More and more cases where fields are lost for reasons other than insurance coverage for the site owner. Park districts are into revenue rasing bus trips for gray hairs not RC fields for a few old farts like us. I would pay a $100 a year in AMA dues if they pursued the ownership of flying sites. The problem with most originazations is we don't dream or think on a big enough scale. My opinion.
09-29-2009, 05:10 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
You realize you can pay all the extra money you want at the local club level to own you own field,
just ask Hoss how its done.
However, in the funds flow analysis of that, if you need more money than you can raise locally,
that means you are wanting a subsidy from the national level down to the local,
and my guess is somewhere between 100% -101% of localities are of the Accept Subsidy ilk rather than the Provide Subsidy financial standing.
.... if everyone is collecting subsidy, just who is providing it?
If your members cannot float the bill for their own club,
how can others with their own field bills pay for your field?
Insurance is based on taking a little money from many and giving lots of money to a few.
The inverse cannot work, you cant take a little from few and give lots to many (for universal field subsidy)
just ask Hoss how its done.
However, in the funds flow analysis of that, if you need more money than you can raise locally,
that means you are wanting a subsidy from the national level down to the local,
and my guess is somewhere between 100% -101% of localities are of the Accept Subsidy ilk rather than the Provide Subsidy financial standing.
.... if everyone is collecting subsidy, just who is providing it?
If your members cannot float the bill for their own club,
how can others with their own field bills pay for your field?
Insurance is based on taking a little money from many and giving lots of money to a few.
The inverse cannot work, you cant take a little from few and give lots to many (for universal field subsidy)
09-29-2009, 05:25 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
ORIGINAL: k3 valley flyer
I voted no because my concern is not with insurance. The AMA should be promoting a capital drive projcet large enough to fund the aqusition of 200 RC fields across the country, that are then leased back to AMA clubs. If that takes years and many millions of $ so be it. Privately owned flying sites are the future of the hobby not insurance coverage. More and more cases where fields are lost for reasons other than insurance coverage for the site owner. Park districts are into revenue rasing bus trips for gray hairs not RC fields for a few old farts like us. I would pay a $100 a year in AMA dues if they pursued the ownership of flying sites. The problem with most originazations is we don't dream or think on a big enough scale. My opinion.
I voted no because my concern is not with insurance. The AMA should be promoting a capital drive projcet large enough to fund the aqusition of 200 RC fields across the country, that are then leased back to AMA clubs. If that takes years and many millions of $ so be it. Privately owned flying sites are the future of the hobby not insurance coverage. More and more cases where fields are lost for reasons other than insurance coverage for the site owner. Park districts are into revenue rasing bus trips for gray hairs not RC fields for a few old farts like us. I would pay a $100 a year in AMA dues if they pursued the ownership of flying sites. The problem with most originazations is we don't dream or think on a big enough scale. My opinion.
I like that idea. But, what happens if a club goes belly up?
I guess since land is not being made anymore, it's still worth money.
Frank
PS That is such an outstanding question, I'm gonna ask that in the AMA forum if you don't mind.
09-29-2009, 06:50 PM
#16
RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
if it gets my HO out of the liability loop for modeling stuff, then it is a good thing.
don't want increased rates for my home coming from a parked car in wrong place airplane strike claim.
don't want increased rates for my home coming from a parked car in wrong place airplane strike claim.
09-29-2009, 07:30 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
I mentioned a "capital drive project" that does not mean due increases only. There are alot of ways to raise $.
09-29-2009, 07:33 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
If AMA owns the land and leases it to a club that goes out of business the AMA would still own the property.
09-29-2009, 07:38 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
I know of several clubs that own their field and they have the best answer, but not all clubs have a membership that grasp that concept.
09-29-2009, 07:52 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
I would pay $78.00 for primary ins perhaps a bit more, I have always felt that AMA should be primary are at least offer the option. However I do think
there should be some type of deductable maybe in the $500.00 range.
I also think there should be model to model coverage not for midairs but for a model that is damaged while parked.
there should be some type of deductable maybe in the $500.00 range.
I also think there should be model to model coverage not for midairs but for a model that is damaged while parked.
09-29-2009, 08:45 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
Maybe AMA should offer many insurance products.
I personally would like the addition of a primary policy that protects my medical costs and bodily injury costs regardless of how or who did what in connection with model aviation activities. Simple… have an accident...get hurt…expect coverage without lawyers sucking everything they possibly can from it. Let the insurance companies subrogate, fight it out or whatever but get yourself fixed as well as possible up to some reasonable limit.
If we went to that type of insurance more instead of what we now have, the induced lawyer drag should be much reduced. Liability insurance is the fuel that lawyers burn…time we faced the truth.
I personally would like the addition of a primary policy that protects my medical costs and bodily injury costs regardless of how or who did what in connection with model aviation activities. Simple… have an accident...get hurt…expect coverage without lawyers sucking everything they possibly can from it. Let the insurance companies subrogate, fight it out or whatever but get yourself fixed as well as possible up to some reasonable limit.
If we went to that type of insurance more instead of what we now have, the induced lawyer drag should be much reduced. Liability insurance is the fuel that lawyers burn…time we faced the truth.
09-29-2009, 09:04 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
I fly at the compound in Palm Bay. No club dues. No AMA required. It's been about 8 years. What's the AMA done for me? Nothing.
If they disappear tomorrow, my engines still start, my radio turns on, and my Tower club member fees at least give me something in return.
If they disappear tomorrow, my engines still start, my radio turns on, and my Tower club member fees at least give me something in return.
09-29-2009, 09:30 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
ORIGINAL: nitro-pilot
I fly at the compound in Palm Bay. No club dues. No AMA required. It's been about 8 years. What's the AMA done for me? Nothing.
If they disappear tomorrow, my engines still start, my radio turns on, and my Tower club member fees at least give me something in return.
I fly at the compound in Palm Bay. No club dues. No AMA required. It's been about 8 years. What's the AMA done for me? Nothing.
If they disappear tomorrow, my engines still start, my radio turns on, and my Tower club member fees at least give me something in return.
What have you asked the "AMA" to do for you? And when I say "AMA" who are you referring to exactly?
Thanks,
Frank
09-29-2009, 09:36 PM
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RE: Would you pay $78.00 a year for AMA if they offered PRIMARY insurance?
Can you be a little more specifc? So you were asking all 150,000 or so members for something?
Frank