psb667

as long as he is between me and the missle im alright with it. No seriously wheres the guy who started this post did he fly this weekend is he in the hospital? did one of em get arrested heck this is way better than melrose. Also IMHO liability is neccassary for even park fliers flying little foamies. Also has anyone considered that the parks insurance may need the ama inclusion in order to keep coverage for little things like flite for life in a serious non(supposedly) rc related emergency? Like I said if you dont follow the park rules at out flite park you can be banned. Lucky for us the park fee covers all those nifty things for us. Its kinda like a really big club.

ziem

There are a bunch of great guys in the hobby and so much to be learned from them. I have met people at auctions, got to know people through ebay transactions, and talked to people in the hobby shops. I have been in the hobby for a long time but have been seriously flying for about 5 years since I've been retired. The one thing I have noticed is when club meetings are talked about there usually seems to be a lot of bickering going on. As a result the local club is dwindling away and there are very few if any new members.
I am fortunate enough to have a great neighbor who likes to fly. So with a little help from him we built our own field with a N-S runway as well as a NE-SW one. Our field is smoother than most and I cut it twice a week and is kept in much better shape than my yard. (Must have priorities !) There are a few people that come over and are learning to fly and I even know a young Amish guy who would have a few planes of his own if they were allowed. Everyone that has been to our field has had a great time and can't wait to come back. The only rule we have is to be courteous. That is what the hobby is supposed to be about. I understand that when there gets to be a lot of people involved that there has to be rules so everyone knows what is going on. But for some reason there is always going to be that special someone who has to ruin your day. That's what's nice about having your own private field. That person won't be invited back. I won't have my fun spoiled because of one guy trying to prove a point or being a jerk.
My opinion about the whole argument of who is right or wrong is that it isn't fun and therefore won't happen on my field. All I ask is that you be courteous and it catches on and everyone has a great time.

804

My Feedback: (1)

Amazing that one can condemn compliance, for compliance sake, when compliance in this case is the simple act of posting an AMA card on a board, and condone irresponsibility, when it puts a person of responsibility in a no-win situation.

rcslsafut

ok im a car guy some of you may think cause i dont have a plane that i dont have a foot to stand on here but oh well. poeple have flamed out at me for more stupid things than this
1; the guy is a former pres of a flying club? and he is being anal about showing a stupid card. i understand that the card is more than insurance or what ever else comes with it, but
to get this card he has to understand that there are serious implications of flying an airplane without understanding all the aspects. ie... a has, mat card. you know as well as i do
normally it takes 150 hours to build a plane .it takes quite a bit of money for the radio,engine and other things involved in building a plane,and there are rules in place to not only
protect the peerson flying the plane but the other members ,and thier investment lets call it. not only that but what about the little kid who cant control what you do with your plane to
hence the safty guy. so i dont think the person who started this post is really out of place to ask the other person to at aleast post a freq on a board. and the person who doesnt want to comply
should be removed ,because flying a plane is dangerous to others and that is why there are rules and cards to fly them whether you are on private property or public. when i was a kid
a had a control line ,i took it to school to show it off . started it up started to fly it around and it ended up hitting a teacher in the hand .split her finger wide open.i felt terrible. this was a small
tyco type plane . i could just imagine what any normal scale of plane flown at a park any weekend could do to a person. just my two cents .

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

804,

Not sure what your point is or what the "person of responsibility" is supposed to win but the bottom line is, no matter whether are not the fellow puts his AMA card wherever, it has ZERO impact on safety. Isn't our true focus safety? Or is it something else? If so, what? Please enlighten me.

psb667

crankshaf go out to a club dont follow the rules experience the consequences. are those guys persecuting you or are they doing there job? If they are the type who really like their job you will probably know it.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

You may be overlooking "the club" in this case shares a flying field with the public and provided by the county…Hmmm…

How can a club just simply supersede the public...Maybe the club should follow the publics rules...as of yet it hasn't been confirmed that the AMA card posting rule is from the county or the club...if from the county, the "safety Marshal" can simply report the fellow...see what happens…end of story...no need for all this philosophical debate or flying field confrontational BS… Really simple if looked at properly.

As always, I reserve the right to play devils advocate and say things like…make a motion at the next club meeting to remove the rule…if it is a club rule…nothing wrong with removing rules… especially this one. If it is really the club's field they can just put a lock on the gate…see how that works?

Srewinkel

The guy does not belong to the club, so why follow club rules. It would be interesting to see if something happens invloving a non club member at this field. Would the club support the guy, or hang him out by stating "not part of our club"

psb667

sorry I should have clarified. go out to a social gathering establishment that plays music and has say alcaholic refreshments. try this whole im a free spirit thing there. get bounced. being a rebel is cool till the field shuts down or a 200lb guy who is kinda wondering why you touched his girls butt is involved. seriously get a couple of bouncers for the field for the day. I dont care if the guy used to own the place hes not above the rules. If he started stuff(dont want my post deleted by the man)then he should be able to handle it.

psb667

look back in the archives for a killed post called is this normal perhaps this will enlighten you.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I could show up at that field any time I like and fly without showing my AMA card. I'll even invite all my non-AMA friends to join me. We'll fly there every day just like we own the place.........until one day a County agent walks up while we're flying, along with the Sheriff and we are asked to show proof of AMA.
I'm not sure how the rest of this scene would play out, but I am sure that in the future the same set of guys won't show up to fly there again without their cards.

psb667

exactly

dbl8ts

I double checked before writing this, but cccdad could be in a better situation if he had the following behind him: In the area where I live, 98-99% of the flying sites are in state or Corps of Engineer parks. Three of these clubs are in a series of connected lakes. Each park has its own designated R/C flying site. In order to belong to the club and use the flying site, you must also purchase a park license and be a member of the AMA. In order to use the flying field, you must also follow established flying site rules which the club has presented to the parks commission and the rules have been adopted. Without the park license, you cannot fly. Without the park license and the AMA card, you cannot fly. Without a club membership, you may fly as a guest. However, the field is not accessible unless the gate is open, and the club members control the gate.

In my own club, we are in a county/city park, but we do not have to have a park license. We do have control of the gate. Anytime a club member is present, the gate is open and you are welcome to fly, if you have an AMA card; or, you are hooked to a buddy box with one of the instructors for introductory flights. Any member can ask to see your card if they don't know you, or you are not accompanied by another member. It's only fair, because we have to protect our field. However, once checked, no one bothers you until the end of the year when you will be asked to join the club or leave, if you continue to use club facilities on a regular basis. At no time will anti-behavior be tolerated, and the park officials concur. If you are asked to leave and you refuse, you will find yourself alone and locked in the area until the proper authorities arrive and see you off the grounds (the gate is very well constructed with the kind of steel beams used to line highway medians, so busting out is not an option, unless you want to replace your vehicle).

CCCDAD, I do not envy your position. Maybe your club should revisit this issue with the county on an informal basis. They have the authority to change the rules to prevent Mr. Ex-President and non-club member from enjoying the open policy everyone else follows, including other non-members. Why anyone would make such a big deal of non-conforming in this situation I'll never know, The club members are paying dues, most likely no lease fees, and possibly maintenance fees. All that is asked by the county and the club is that you show your card and enjoy the use of the field.

Forget all else. FMxx has free use of the field. He should comply with the simple request and stop being hard about it. If he hates the policy and the club structure so much, why be a pain. Seems as though he and other like him could not get along on a private field either and had to be ejected. Believe me, he can be ejected from public grounds if he continues. No one has said he cannot fly responsibly which is to his credit. No one says he flies recklessly, which is also to his credit. What is being said is that he refuses to comply to the rules all others using the field comply with - post the darn card. Defending his actions makes no sense. It's too easy to stop the confusion/hassle. Could be he is counting on an escalation to have the club lose the site or get enough members he does not like to quit the club then move back in. Problem is, if this is the case, he will now set the rules, expect compliance, and, with his temperment, he will enforce them one way or another. As stated, he is not above bodily threats. I just hope he does not meet another hothead like himself who won't think conservatively and just beat him to a pulp. Unfortunate, and hopefully it won't, but it can happen. CCCDAD is handling the matter very well considering. However, if I were FMxx, I would not put my hands on him. He may be that surprise.

Daniel-EL

My Feedback: (9)

My suggestion: Just drop it. You don't have the authority to boss the guy around and since the man felt you were pestering him over a trivial matter he got his back up. Let it go and try to have some fun flying airplanes without interjecting the hassle factor. []

cccdad

I am reading some what ifs so I will add specific info to that applies to this situation. Our property is a capped off dump the land use agreement complex in itself because it involves a sanitation company that retains ownership of the land but has an agreement with the county parks to improve and managage the property. Our agreement is signed by both entities. The verbage in the agreement is specific that use is restricted to persons with AMA insurance, it also names the club as the exclusive chartered club. I assume when this was done, The person that negotiated the agreement promissed the county and sanitation company that AMA insurance would limit thier liability and that by having an "exclusive" AMA chartered club would be a cheap way to ensure pilots were complying. This is how I would approach a potential flying site owner.

In natural progressesion, to meet charter requirments bylaws were established and site rules were made including the posting of an AMA card to ensure the dual role of fequency control and compliance with the land use agreement. The frequency board, a copy of the AMA Safety code and the site rules are all posted. The county has posted some signage of their own. There are signs posted and each break in the spectator line fence that state "Proof of AMA insurance required beyond this point" The placed several other signs stating (I am going to paraphase because frankly I can not recall the verbage right now) The "insert club name" safety marshalls are designated to ensure the safe flying practices at this site, and that unsafe flyers will be asked to leave. There is nothing specific as to how to handle the gray area. unsafe flying usally is a matter of opinion, some people will argue that 3D is unsafe. Is it usafe when when a Low time but soloed pilot accidentally flys behind the pilot line or does it have to be intentional? and last example is the the pilot that only flies left hand pattern(though he takes off and lands right) even though wind and posted flight direction arrow dictates other wise. There are those that would argue that if you think its unsafe dont fly until he is done. The gray area here is he has AMA. But the rule clearly states that proof of AMA is required. That is the county's rule and signage. If it was something that required immediate removal, I dont think there would be any discussion

Frankly short of taking a punch I am not inclined to draw law enforment attention to the feild (unless at some point the county requires it) There is no "winning" this situation. But there is no reason for me to just ignore it ,because like an infection it will grow and other people will jump on the disparity of enforcing the rules. in fact that has already started when a particular Member that I had a discussion about posting proof af AMA has already stated that "if FCMG does not have to post then why should I" At this point I have set my midset that I am going to keep my approach non-personal and to minimize collateral damage. This is the real shame because our site is such a great freindly accomdating group, small enough that I know most non-members by name.

The club decided long ago that there should be no locked gates and have alway been in good graces for that decision, and is not an option this is a county park and I am a firm beliver that mission is to promote our sport not restrict it for our exclusive use, our members have always been in agreement with this. The only thing I see is the county messing things up once you have to get them involved. If you dont get them involved then the retort is that you should have got them involved early while the problem was minor and small.

cccdad

I am not sure how far my authority goes it has not been pushed this far. I am not so sure it is trivial. FCMG clearly states the rules dont apply to him. what happens next? Why have safety people if there is no authority? I am not one to stick my head in the sand, and did not start this fight, I just asked for compliance.

thevirginian

We, in our club, have a by-law that requires every member to wear his/her badge when flying at the club field. I can see a reason behind this requirement (proof of AMA) for everybody, without exception. If you have a club rule, for everybody to adhere to, then there should not be a person excempt from it. If a person becomes belligerent when asked to obey the club rules then I would call teh cops and let them handle this *****...le. With the majority switching over to 2.4 the frequency board becomes more and more obsolete. There is absolutely no need or reason to have pins for 2.4 on the board. What for? The board's only purpose is to prevent frequency interferencs, which is no issue with 2.4.

804

My Feedback: (1)

If you have kids, is it right to allow one to break your house rules, while making the others follow them?

At work, is it right for the boss to allow one worker to take an extra 15 minutes for lunch, while the rest are required to be back in an hour?

The TUFF club has a provision for non-AMA fliers to fly up to 2 lb. models. Is it right to allow one guy to fly a 2.5 lb. one? 3 lb.? Where do you draw the line?

The point is, equal enforcement of the rules for all. No more, no less. It is the only fair way to do it.

Robotech

My Feedback: (9)

+1

It's too bad that CCCDAD and by association his club, have been put in this situation by a disgruntled former member. I do not envy his position. That being said, there are times when one must make a stand and this is one of them. Why should the people who come out to fly and comply with a few rules make an exception for one contrarian personality. He's probably that way because he's been able to bully and whine to get his way his whole life,. I see it too many times in all phases of life and community.

I have a feeling, and that is all it is, that if you were to drop the issue for a bit, he would lose the "fun" he is having yanking your chain and maybe start voluntarily comlying or even better, just go away. There is more at stake though. What's next? A few folks who don't want to observe other rules? Where does it end and where's your moral high ground then?

Perhaps the club, with the approval of the landlords, could change the rule so that it states that the AMA card "must be plainly visible." whether it's posted on the frequency board or worn on a badge or lanion. That could give both sides a little room to breath.

rcmiket

I agree you said you knew the guy had his AMA current anyway. Is this guy the only problem or are there others? Sounds like a unhappy x club member looking to stir things up.

Mike

sparkknocker

My Feedback: (2)

Once again, most of these little issues are silly club non-sense. I will never be part of any flying club for this reason. Are clubs really concerned with safety? If you do not have an AMA card posted on a board and you god forbid hit someone with your plane and rip their arm off that AMA card posted on the clubs little board isn't going to come into play. What matters is if you are an AMA. I and many others could very easily duplicate an AMA card on a computer, laminate it and post it up. Does that mean I am in the AMA, NO absolutely not. Either you have insurance or not. People do not need to post their auto insurance card on their vehicles windshield so everyone can see it. They just have it. That is the way it should be at these flying sites. I have seen clubs ruin flying sites for many people and discourage a lot of new comers because of their rediculous rules. Rules like painting the ends of all your props.

Worry about yourself and fly! If your getting stressed out about it then give up the hobby.

804

My Feedback: (1)

But some states, like Indiana, require a driver to carry proof of insurance in the vehicle. If a cop asks for it, you show it.
All states that I'm aware of require license plates to be displayed on the vehicle. What happens if one doesn't comply?

rcmiket

State Law comes into play here as far as POI and Plates. I don't see how that pertains here. Point is one guy being difficult every flying site has one. If they push this too hard then there's always the chance of losing the site. It's just not worth it in this case.
Mike

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

No, but to have them stand on one foot when drinking water is not a good rule...

Hmmm...comparing work to play...How bout just make this a federal case...
Hmmm...I guess we all should carry a scale and weigh everyone’s plane since we do not have a Barney LOL...

Seriously, policemen come by and visit us as friends or just hang out often...some of them also have models...and they are not typically AMA and their model might exceed #2 …who cares…no body is worrying themselves about the letter of the rule but the spirit is basically being observed voluntarily...for the most part we have none of the petty issues being discussed here over benign rule problems being forced here...although we do have a couple of rule mongers that show up from time to time and stickle the rules… Sad, truly sad…always a bad day when they show up. A real shame we have people like that in the otherwise great hobby of ours. Sometimes I think the AMA spurs that to a high degree as people seem to need something to follow…believe in or whatever it is that cause that…



Hey just delete as many of them rules as possible...let the county worry about theirs...fly your model and just be glad to be there. Everything will be alright...

dave de

My Feedback: (12)

you pretty much are mandated to have a card to fly at a club & in this case at the field.....