Mr67Stang

Disestablishmentarianism, the OP just want unregulated, unorganized flying. Some clubs actually operate this way. But they are out in the country using farmers feilds and such

dreadnaut

My Feedback: (5)

Read this again. We were able to reverse a City ban on R/C planes, by establishing an AMA chartered Park Pilot club. This fact was alluded to in the newspaper article that mentioned the conditions, including insurance. The involvement of the AMA PP program was instrumental in getting the city's Parks and Rec. Director on our side.

KenP

My Feedback: (1)

dreadnaut question for you. Since your PPC got the City to reverse it's policy (KUDOS) does the agreement require people that want to fly in the park to join your club?

KidEpoxy

The actual city council meeting to allow flying was a hoot to watch.

[link=http://carlsbad.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=6&clip_id=423]Jan12 Carlsbad CC Meeting vid[/link] item6
30:48- "you can't hear these little electric airplanes once they're airborn"

The CC was given 4 options, including one allowing folks to fly and another "Option4" allowing AMA Only to fly.
Not so unexpectedly, the clubby guys were all about option4, ignoring the option that allows NonAMA to fly in parks.[:@]

around 40-42min mark the $2mil site insurance and the $1/2mil pilot insurance were brought up,
by the 45min mark the CC was accepting the "Option4" AMA Only Exclusion to the public ban.

To promote the AMA they club got the city to repeal its ban, but only for AMA flying "Option4",
someone else is gonna have to try to promote the hobby for the public



Oddly, the actual text of the adopted ord doesnt mention the AMA requirements, despite the CC talking those reqs up a storm
[link=http://carlsbad.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=6&clip_id=434&meta_id=50283]CS-074, AB20,106[/link] (relevant parts of text)
CHAPTER 11.32 TO THE CARLSBAD MUNICIPAL CODE TO
REGULATE THE HOURS AND LOCATION OF RADIO OR REMOTE
CONTROLLED AIRCRAFT FLYING.

WHEREAS, the Carlsbad City Council concurs that it is necessary to amend
Municipal Code section 11.32.030; and
WHEREAS, the Carlsbad City Council recognizes that the
recommended amendments and additions to Chapter 11.32 "Parks and Beaches"
will result in consistency in regulations governing the use of radio or remote
controlled model aircraft, cars, or similar devices in the City's public parks or
beaches.
The City Council of the City of Carlsbad, California, does ordain as
follows:

Section 11.32.030 of Chapter 11.32 of the Carlsbad Municipal Code
is amended to read as follows:


Title 11 PUBLIC PROPERTY
Chapter 11.32 PARKS AND BEACHES
11.32.030 Unlawful acts.

It is unlawful for any person to do any of the following mentioned acts in or upon
any park or beach within the city:


(31) To use radio or remote controlled cars or similar devices, excepting the
beach area west of Carlsbad Boulevard, between Palomar Airport Road and
Solamar Drive.


(32) To use radio or remote controlled model aircraft or similar devices
excepting the beach area west of Carlsbad Boulevard, between Palomar Airport
and Solamar Drive, and excepting on any park's natural turf baseball fields from
8:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m., only if a scheduled league game or practice is not
occurring, or as otherwise permitted by the city manager or his/her designee
provided appropriate signs are installed giving adequate notice of such excepted
areas.






(will ALL park ball fields be listed with ama as club Alt Site to get site insurance the CC is expecting?
Are nonClub ppp flyers going to be $2mil Site covered for the 'AMA only flying',
or just clubbers & designated club guests get the $2mil the CC is expecting, other AMA/PPP are there by NonExclusive deal and not covered??)

dreadnaut

My Feedback: (5)

No, just that they have Park Pilot membership. This means that the club itself will stay small, and function as more of an advocacy group.

dreadnaut

My Feedback: (5)

We worked for months with parks and Rec. The Director was receptive, but others in the department, as well as those airheaded "put your eye out" crowd were downright hostile toward us. Yes we were all over option four, because that was the one that we had come to the conclusion, through open meetings with officials, that would pass. The options not requiring AMA membership would not have been passed by the city. Remember that one of the four options was to maintain the ban.

You are welcome to fly out here and try. But it seems that you are more content to sit back and bash anything AMA without knowing ALL the facts.

KidEpoxy

hard to argue with results: You got an AMA Brand Only exclusion


A) Where exactly is this PPP requirement actually written down
B) With the CC expecting the $2mil site insurance,
how do you figure to extend your club Site insurance to cover all unknown PPPs regardless of club member/guest?

C) wow, once again we see Basher slung at me....theres a shocker.
As is so common, you have a 2 paragraph post:
You had a good post, then for unknown reasons you added a personal snipe second paragraph to... well... snipe?

804

My Feedback: (1)

Well, perception is often reality.
This group of people have restored model airplane flying where once it was banned, and you are bashing him, and his club, IMO.
BTW, the public can fly there, since the public can purchase an AMA card.

KenP

My Feedback: (1)

Dreadnaut thanks for the quick answer.

KUDOS again on wanting to be advocates instead of forcing the join the club model, that seems very outside the norm.

KidEpoxy

I'm having a hard time fitting these two concepts (different posters) together:

1. KUDOS again on wanting to be advocates instead of forcing the join the club model(......)
2. BTW, the public can fly there, since the public can purchase an AMA card.

#2 sure seems to be the same old Join AMA Or Stop Flying,
while #1 alludes to not forcing stuff on folks,
which is odd cause they both are about the same event in Carlsbad

KenP

My Feedback: (1)

To me having to just join the AMA and having a public place to fly is OK, does do advocacy. Having to purchase something for insurance reasons is acceptable in my view. Now I do draw the line though of a public space being used for a club where you are required to both buy AMA AND pay club dues.

Now I can see where you could argue that comparable insurance should also be accepted, I could see someone making that case and forcing the city to accept it or re-shutdown the site. Because why should you have to pay more if you can for example prove your homeowners insurance covers. I am sure someone will say well the site is not covered because not everyone is AMA, but if everyone is not in the club how does that particular rule get enforced?

If it comes down to a city wanting the insurance for the site I can see the necessary evil of being forced to join AMA.

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

In all fairness, post #28 contained at least two "snipes" so one should not be suprised to get a few in return. Old saying around here goes somthing like "Don't start none, won't be none."

Dreadnaught:Good job restoring the ability to fly model airplanes to the public. You and your club's effortsare to be commended and admired.

804

My Feedback: (1)

No, #2 is "now we have a place to fly, where previously we didn't".
Strictly practical, no BS, no guilt trip.
dreadnaught and club have nothing to be ashamed of.

DelRay

Well, maybe I should have said" after reading the OP, I don't know what it has to do with the AMA". The rest of the thread kinda filled in as needed.

KidEpoxy

Kbob-
I let folks know what offensive materials they put in their posts, be that Basher/ AntiAMA / Child or whatnot,
hoping they will avoid that in the future.

Kbob, please specify what you considered so offensive in my post
(assuming you were referring to my post and it was a simple oops calling it 28 instead of 29)

Was it the cited & linked quote?
Was it finding (what KenP refers to as the norm) as something not so unexpected?
Was it 'To promote the AMA they club got the city to repeal its ban, but only for AMA flying "Option4"?
Surely you cant find a problem with 'someone else is gonna have to try to promote the hobby for the public'
... cause indeed since they wont someone else infact will have to

Or are you considering "Clubbers" and "the clubby guys" as slurs?
If thats the case, then I will be more than happy to strike those terms out an place a more PC reference in.

Just what is bothering you about my post?

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

None of it bothers me but I can see where some , more sensitive to what they perceive as slurs against the AMA and clubs in general, could take them as snipes and then would respond in negative way. I'm just saying that maybe, just maybe, if we all watch our words then this forum could reach a new high in civility and worthwhile discussion.

Archie League

The solution is dilution.The key to a good club is keeping the proper ratio of real pilots to the joker pilots. (ie. fun police, know it alls, rule commities, etc). That way the quacks get drowned out and ignored.

THISPOSTISNOTABOUTANYPERSONSONRCU !!!! DONOT INTERJECT YOURSELFINTOTHISCONVERSATION ANDPRETENDTOBEAVICTIM OFANINACCURATEPOSTABOUTYOU!!!

KidEpoxy

KBob-
again, what slur in specific might they take offense to?


was the cited & linked quotation a slur?

Or how I posted without any abusive language, slurs/labels, or derogatory sidebar descriptors:
"To promote the AMA they club got the city to repeal its ban, but only for AMA flying "Option4",
someone else is gonna have to try to promote the hobby for the public"

Where specificly are you seeing the slurs,
because if the public will get to fly again, someone else is gonna have to make it happen,
and I'm not even going to speculate on which side the club will take if the public try to change the parks from AMA Only back to Public



(obviously I meant to say 'the club' rather than 'they club'
but I'd rather paste verbatim than get accuse of revisionist history)

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

It was post #29. Headers and footer mixup.

Yes, the two examples you cite are the two I saw as possibly worded to incite rebuttal and escalation. The fact that you found and labeled them on your own is a good indicator that you know/knew the potential.

Just sayin. It all starts with one little jab and escalates to a closed thread. Let's all stop it. No moreAMA-haters and no more sock puppets. .

KidEpoxy

[link=http://carlsbad.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=6&clip_id=423]Jan12 Carlsbad CC Meeting vid[/link] item6
30:48- "you can't hear these little electric airplanes once they're airborn"

actually Kbob,
I very intentionally made no commentary on the clear inaccuracy of the quoted statement.
(since we know how very loud some 2lb 60mph electrics can get... DunctedFan, I'm looking your way)
Nope, I let him make that semiTrue (semiFalse) statement without any commentary debunking it,
yet you want to harsh me over it anyway.

You are trying to find, and even place, malice into some very bland text.
Unlike the guys that sling direct malice like Basher or Children or 'Want the AMA To Fail',
when all I do is pointed out what happened and what didnt happen, you want to say it might offend someone.

Well, along those lines,
you would have me stop promoting OptionalMA because the mere mention of it offends Red.



If you dont like the quote
blame the guy that said it... he said it not me.
If the the text is so embarrassing that nobody should be allowed to quote it, maybe it shouldnt have been said in the first place.

......


But it boils down to
the public in Carlsbad aint gonna be allowed to fly in those AMA/AMA* Only parks,
so in scope of the OP,
Who needs a club? THEY do, the Carlsbad public are the ones that are being forced to not fly without site insurance (thru club)




AMA*: ppp

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

KenP

My Feedback: (1)