RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

No, I have no problem with it being here. At the time it was posted I didn't see how it tied to the AMA.

Ken

Sport_Pilot

[quote]ORIGINAL: phlpsfrnk


Prove that we fly in the NAS. Or more correctly that the FAA has jurisdiction of airspace below 500 feet that is not near an airport. Also some of the full scale airplanes are flying into the non-navigable airspace that they should not be in.


There is no need to know which they are in, the FAA has OK'ed the AMA rules, even though they do not completely comply with the AC. It in not necessary to have the same knowledge as we do.

cj_rumley

News to me, and I very much doubt that I am alone in that. When? Where? Link?

Cuppla more questions for you,

If FAA has no jurisdiction over where we fly, why would AMA need FAA's OK for anything?

What is all the flailing over the sUAS ARC about if sUAS of all sorts including model airplanes fly beneath airspace that is FAA's domain?

Sport_Pilot

Back when the ETL was written, way back in 82 or so? I can't remember the specifics but someone had an article posted that said this was so.


I think you are reading a lot more than I posted, between the lines I suppose. They still have jurisdiction when fields are located close to existing airports at least withen the actual controled airspace. And also many modlers fly above 500 feet some very often, especially sailplanes.



I think the rules I have read indicate the FAA is not concerned about sUAS flying below 500 feet. I think they have overstated some concerns about commercial applications. But since some have flown into controlled airspace, even over airports, i can see why.

Pull Up Now!

My Feedback: (3)

I think you guys are getting all wrapped up in definitions. Class G (uncontrolled) airpsace extends from the surface to either 700 or 1200 ft above ground level. Except in the vicinity of airports, where for safety, their controlled airspace extends down to the surface. However, just because Class G airspace is uncontrolled airspace does NOT mean it's not part of the overall NAS (National Airspace System).

Now, don't assume just because you're RC flying near an airport you're automatically in controlled airspace. Take for example a rural Class E airport with a fuzzy magenta circle around it; In this case, AMAZINGLYENOUGH, from the airport runway surface to 700 ft AGL, you are in uncontrolled G airspace. Above 700 ft, it turns to controlled Class E airspace.

Controlled or uncontrolled, it is all part of the National Airspace System.

mike31

My Feedback: (67)

Good idea. Big brother is gonna do what he feels like doing no matter what we say or think. Don't believe it? Look at the health care bill that was shoved up everyones butt.

cfircav8r

My Feedback: (1)

Sport Pilot if the FAA has no jurisdiction over aircraft below 500' AGL in class G airspace then how can they justify the 500' distance requirement from persons, vessels vehicles, or structures. This is vertical or horizontal. According to your understanding if I am below 500' they have no jurisdiction at that altitude. I understand you used the term navigable, that is in reference to the airways. If you look at sectional there is the blue border around the airways that defines the navigable borders. There is only a few (less than a handful) very small areas that fall under your definition, and these are in the western deserts. I can garantee that if you look at a local sectional you will not find one acre of land in your area that is classified non-navigable.

daleflysrc

My Feedback: (26)

Dear Mr. forum manager !! I quote to you from the AMA Presidents Perspective !! Model Aviation March 2010, Page 5, Our biggest challenge in2009, and what will likely continue to be our greatest challenge in 2010, is our work with the FAA and impending regulation reguarding the operation of small unmanned aircraft systems (sUASs) in the National Airspace System (NAS).

Anotherwords Look out Boys Here comes the " TOMBSTONE " agency !!! The agency in which all of us in the Aviation ind. call the FAA. 1st it was Mode C in J-3 cubs which had no electrical system !! and vary rarely flew above 500'. Thats when I abondoned the EAA, that and 100,000 $ homebuilts in 50,000 $ condo/hangers !!

And I would also add in the same Pres. Perspective our alustrius AMA leadership seem to have visited the AOPAs summit in Tampa Fl. Also the EAA seems to be snooping around !!! Wonder why ??? can our leadership not govern its self and its membership ??? or are thay looking for someone to outsource it to !!! Their Model Airplanes !! Not UAVs !! Tell the feds to take a hike !! Dave !! and by the way ..... Tell Paul and his Playboy son & the AOPA to do the Same !!! P.S. anyone want to trade a Harley for some nice GIANT Warbirds and a few Imacs Dale

daleflysrc

My Feedback: (26)

Correct me if I am wrong !! But before thay changed the controlled airspace system ( the old upside down weedingcake) you could take off from a controlled airport by filling negative stage 3 radar service and never even bother with departure contollers !!
can you not do the same today ?? and by the way if your are with the FEDS !! One word !! CORRIDOORS !!! What ever happened to grass runways !! Two wings and roung engines, J-3s & Aeronica Champs !! and the Men who FLEW them !! Not DROVE them !! Oh yah !! The FAA took over for the CAB !!

Sport_Pilot

Perhaps, but that does not mean the FAA has jurisdiction below 500 feet, and 1000 feet over populated areas.

Sport_Pilot

Go back to the quotes I made from the USC. That is exactly what defines the limits of their authority. They have jurisdiction over navigable airspace. Below 500 feet is considered non navigable.

Any VFR and even IFR aircraft can fly outside of the blue borders and is navigable. The desert is navigable to 500 feet above the surface. Go back and look at the definition of navigable airspace.

You won't find a sectional that shows non navigable airspace because you should know not to fly into it even without a sectional. (I am editing this because I just remembered you can fly into non navigable airspace if you stay 500 feet from people and buildings, which gives a 500 foot bubble around each model airfield, at least when in use. ) That is below the limits of 500 or 1000 feet. Hard to believe not flying without a sectional, but it was legal when I was flying.

Sport_Pilot

Well you could from non TCA airports in the early 90's when I stopped flying. Not sure now.

phlpsfrnk

Thank you Ken,
I should have made that clear in my original post.

Regards
Frank

phlpsfrnk

[quote]ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Sport_Pilot,
If I use your logic that the FAA has no authority over modelers flying in class E or G airspace below 500 feet then modelers need not be concerned with NOTAMs or TFRs. Is that correct?

Regards
Frank

Sport_Pilot

By regulation I believe the NOTAM needs to be issued when flying above 500 feet in all airspace, and at any altitude in G and above. However, when flying below 500 feet I believe the FAA has said that this can be handled near airports by notifying the airport tower, or for uncontrolled airports, the manager. I am sure those who are flying from fields near or at airports can tell us the current rule. Events, such as sailplane contests, which plan to fly above 500 feet, should issue a NOTAM unless there has been some change I am not aware of.

cfircav8r

My Feedback: (1)

If aircraft are not allowed to fly below 500' or in non-navigable airspace then every time we fly we are breaking the rules. Yes we fly unmanned aircraft, just because you use the term model or toy doesn't change the fact that it is an aircraft. To say that they have no jurisdiction over us at these altitudes is not true or they could not punish pilots for buzzing buildings or people.

cfircav8r

My Feedback: (1)

I believe the concern for NOTAM/TFR reference was about restrictions to our flight. If the Pres. is in town you will be shut down or arrested if you do not comply. Try to keep flying below 500' and see what happens.

Silent-AV8R

No worries. According to Sport Pilot if you are not close to an airport flying in Class G Airspace and stay under 500 feet you can ignore the FAA. Do what you want to do. When the Secret Service shows up tell them that they have no authority and that the FAA cannot tell you what to do in that airspace.

804

My Feedback: (1)

Now I can build my 3/4 scale Mustang and do strafing runs below 500' all day, won't have to worry about FAA. Won't even need a license, or FAA sign-offs on the build.

phlpsfrnk

Sport_Pilot,
Your description does not agree with the following:

NOTAM Number : FDC 0/8179

Issue Date : February 28, 2010 at 1819 UTC
Location : Savannah, Georgia
Beginning Date and Time : March 02, 2010 at 1600 UTC
Ending Date and Time : March 02, 2010 at 2130 UTC
Reason for NOTAM : Temporary flight restrictions for VIP (Very Important Person) Movement
Affected Area(s)
Area A
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the HUNTER VOR/DME (SVN) 029 degree radial at 3.5 nautical miles. (Latitude: 32ΒΊ03'51"N, Longitude: 81ΒΊ06'35"W)
Radius: 30 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to but not including 18000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From March 02, 2010 at 1600 UTC (March 02, 2010 at 1100 EST)
To March 02, 2010 at 2130 UTC (March 02, 2010 at 1630 EST)
Operating Restrictions and Requirements
C. The following operations are not authorized within this TFR: flight training, practice instrument approaches, aerobatic flight, glider operations, parachute operations, ultralight, hang gliding, balloon operations, agriculture/crop dusting, animal population control flight operations, banner towing operations, sightseeing operations, model aircraft operations, model rocketry, and unmanned aircraft systems (UAS).


Could you please describe were the FAA got it wrong?

Regards
Frank

hook57

My Feedback: (21)

Hmmm. I can see that J3 mixing in with all that high speed stuff at JFK, DFW, ORD, or even the likes of AFW, SPIand SUS.Mode C is not required everywhere and there are exceptionsfor aircraft without electrical systems. I no longer am an EAA member either, but for a bit more reason than a transponder rule. Unfortunately, that's progress, inmuch the same way the land line phone will also go the way of Dino.
There are distinct differences between the rules that "define" the airspace that make up the NAS and the rules that permit an entity from "operating" an aircraft, vehicle, etc. in the NAS. Whether the airspace below 500', 700', 1200', or 10K' is controlled or not, if and how you operate there is whatone should be concerned with. Just my few cents.
hook

Bozarth

My Feedback: (15)

And maybe all of us should also know what the land is zoned for too??

Kurt

hook57

My Feedback: (21)

That was Congress, not an agency or an administration; just keeping it in perspective.
hQQk

hook57

My Feedback: (21)

The TFR is atemporary"flight restriction" typically established by ATC. Issuing the TFR hasnotchanged the original make-up of that particular piece of the NAS. The way flight operations, nav facilities, and airspace designations are affectedby such restrictions are established and communicated viathe NOTAM (whether you want to call it a rule or notis up to you). When a NOTAM is issued no personmay "operate"....
hQQk

Sport_Pilot

That authority to ban below 500 feet for security reasons comes from security not normal day to day FAA. NSA issues those NOTAMS and the authority comes from them not the FAA. The NOTAMS I discussed was for model competitions such as the Nationals.