Hossfly

To all:

This is, IMO, a MUST READ. On AMA District VIII Web Site AMA VP/AVP Postings. One of best ever informational items.

[link=http://www.ama-dist-8.org/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=414&sid=557ee006e7b24adccaf0279ad2232013#p414]http://www.ama-dist-8.o...adccaf0279ad2232013#p414[/link]

Read it all: Posting here is fruitless unless you have read entire article.

Appetizers:

>>>"At one time our feelings and direction were to try to leave modeling under AMA as close to status quo as possible....In fact the words that were used were "To regulate model aviation by exempting it from regulation". I am fairly certain that idea is no longer valid!" >>>>>>>>>>
I have received so much input from members in disagreement with the removal of the printed contest calendar from Model Aviation that I have asked that it be reviewed at the upcoming EC meeting in mid April."

Horrace Cain, AMA L-93
CD / Leader 47/46 years
IMAA 04598, Flying Aces, NMPRA 26I, IMAC
Mbr. 4 AMA Clubs: Jetero RC, Bomber Field, Livingston ARFs, Bayou City Fliers.

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

Yes, it does fall into the category of "Must Read!"

Dave Olson

Gremlin Castle

My Feedback: (14)

It looks like Jim is still at the top of his game. Well written,concise and to the point without extraneous subject matter to confuse the issues.
He is a real credit to our district.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

you would think that someone in the position that jim has would know the difference in to and two. hope the FAA's proofreaders are no more talented than MR castle (grinning a bit).

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

IMO It is painfully apparent that an ever greater disconnect is forthcoming for our hobby/sport and of course by extension for the AMA as well...all this because AMA could not just maintain the directive to simply define what a model aircraft is within the ARC...How did the focus get lost????seems it was too important for some to install/prompt much more...a final death grip of model aviation liberty of sorts...oh well...we had our chance...what a shame...the road to hell has been now been paved!

Yep, the hobby is being partially sacrificed for the sake of more control in the guise of safety... once again by the few that seem to have nothing better to do...sure wish they would get another hobby... instead of their pitiful hobby of trying to control ours.

So very sad...so hard to believe others can't grasp the ramifications of the blundering interactions thus far. Even worse, are those that have embraced it...unbelievable to say the very least.

Compulsory affiliations seem to be the future of our country...no choice...no freedom...no more...done!

ira d

It would be nice if theFAA would ahead and disclose just what it is theywant from the modeling community and how they intend to accomplish what it is they want to do.

AERORICH73

Well fellows, my writing on 03-23-2010, was considered a bunch of crap, but it appears in Paragraph 5,(a set of FAA Standards, they will become our new set of rules that will no longer enjoy voluntary compliance like our current Safety Code, BUT WILL BE FAA STANDARDS THAT MUST BE COMPLIED WITH.) may be the beginning of the changes I mentioned. If the Standards are not met, we do not fly. I have spent a great deal of time discussing with the AMA about required compliance to pilot training, and field layouts. Each safety issue mentioned was answered with the comment that while the AMA suggests safety rules, no club was responsible to follow them. This type of safety program is not going to fly with the FAA. They will want some teeth in the operating rules of our aircraft which will bite if not followed. I sincerely hope that the AMA Officers, and committee group bring to the FAA a program that will satisfy them. Jim Rice wrote a very good message concerning our status with the FAA.

AERORICH73

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

Another case of our government being out of control. The zipperheaded power hungry bureaucrats at the FAA are ignoring the recommendations of the ARC, the exemplary safety record of the AMA and its chartered organizations, and will no doubt establish undue regulations that they won't have the staff to enforce. Further they'll hand a hammer to those segments of the population that just plain don't want us to enjoy ourselves, and we're going to lose many more good flying sites.

We as a community MUST make our legislators aware of this, and we MUST publicly comment on any rules that are proposed. We must make the FAA clearly justify why its ignoring the ARC recommendations. We can't just rely on 6 or 7 people from the AMA to carry our water.

Brad

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

The AMA did not lose focus, the modelers did this to themselves. When they started flying into high altitude airspace, bragging about it openly, and displaying video of close encounters with human carrying aircraft, they did it to themselves. When they attached cameras on their aircraft and started acting in a commercial fashion to make a few dollars, they did it to themselves.

The AMA warned us of these types of actions years ago, and to avoid bring attention to ourselves, but for some the lure of doing it was just too much. After 9/11, bringing this type of attention to ourselves was bound to capture the attention the governmental authorites, some of which could care less if we have the freedom to fly as we wish.

I know what I am saying is not going to be to popular with many of you, but here is a fact of life for you. The government can make us very uncomfortable, with rules and regulations that will practically stifle this hobby. We have not choice but to abide by them, or face penalties. The AMA is in a pretty bad situation if you ask me. They know that either way they go, their existence is threatened. Play with the government, the members get mad. Play with the members, the government plays harder ball. The AMA did not do this, we did it to ourselves. They are not going to let you fly these models in hgih altitude controlled airspace without the proper permits. They are not going to allow you to fly these things for money, without them getting their share of your bounty. Welcome to the real world.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Yea...I guess our use of metal props was under intense scrutiny by the FAA for some time...AMA valiantly opposed such things but alas a vein attempt...Damn FAA...they autonomously conjured up something very similar to AMA's safety code right out of thin air...Hmmm... They are the air Gods!

Look...you can see however you wish...rationalize however...but AMA stroked the fire storm!


The stupid things people have done will undoubtedly still be done...by them...The only difference now is that model aviation as we have known may become criminal. They are them and have absolutly nothing to do with me...how 'bout you?

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

Rationalize it all you want LCS. The FAA is not concerned with metal props, they are concerned with airspace and use of RPVs for commercial purposes. The rest of it all fell in behind. They will regulate us, and they will use the AMA to do so. You can either fall in behind them or you can find a new hobby, that is the realization I am beginning to see.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

And as I said...the disconnect...the sound will be deafening...and believe me, there are many considering what will be their new hobby.



"They will regulate us, and they will use the AMA to do so."

Oh...FWIW you made my point...

Silent-AV8R

As noted by Jim in his summary and also by Dave Mathewson in his recent column, apparently that is in violation of FAA policy. I agree, it would be nice, but clearly the FAA either will not, or cannot, do so.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

All hearsay

AERORICH73

bkdavy: While we were enjoying flying our models, the world situation changed our airspace. With the increase in model size, and jet power our fun activity became another method of terriorist activity. While it may cause a lot of laughter, I suspect no one reading this would want a model crashing into there area carrying some nasty radio active material. While it may be to late for us to respond, it would not hurt if all members sent in some safety ideas that we could all live with that had a mix of FAA rules. The overlying interest, as I see it, it for us to show we can police ourselves well enough to protect the public from harm caused by a flying model. While this is a control issue with the FAA, we can show a strong stand to do the safety oversite at our club fields.

AERORICH73

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I call BS...how on God's green earth can a hobbyist be even remotely confused with a terrorist...That is root of the problem...we don't keep our focus on the actual problem.

We can't resign ourselves to limiting our liberties because some ignorant ***** people can't discern the difference...if we do, the terrorists have already won! What is so hard to understand about that????????

Hossfly

Mr. Hawks, after 41 professional years closely connected to the DOD, DOT, and FAA, I find a very strong disagreement with such a nonchalant unlearned reply/comment as you present.

As one that has lived within an atmosphere requiring significant self-discipline, having witnessed many changes each time the U.S. Congress meets, and in the past 15 months kept myself very aware of the extreme move to bring this nation to its knees, with significant advances just the last several weeks, Sir, I truly abhor such an attitude as you present. [sm=48_48.gif]

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

How does regulating the AMA act as a deterrent to using a model plane as a terrorist delivery method?

How does regulating the AMA make the sky safer than it is already?

Has the FAA been confronted with these questions yet?

If not, these very simple questions need to be asked......not just behind closed doors but before God and everyone else.

Hossfly

CP, those questions can be debated forever. However, IMO, All are political positions. The model aviation industry, at most, is nothing as far as a revenue producer for the bureaucrats. We are very much a minority as a voting block.

With that we can be put out to pasture and will not be missed. Bureaucrats love that kind of work. [sm=49_49.gif]

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Hoss, as I was writing that last post the thought came to mind that there probably isn't a single soul in higher government who is involved in this hobby / sport.
Even if there were, the "bureaucratic types" don't mind being led around by their nose rings.....in fact they crave it.

Silent-AV8R

I do not see the point that the FAA is coming after models out of a desire to regulate or a fear of terrorism, etc. I see what is happening to us as collateral damage, pure and simple. They feel the need to regulate commercial, public agency, and military UAV in US airspace and want to exempt us from those regulations.

However, as always, the devil is in the details. We will take a hit based on how the FAA will likely define what we are and how we operate. Again, we are not the target, we are just the innocent bystander caught in the blast zone.

koastrc

Well sir it is said in Mississippi we all live in tar paper shacks with dirt floors. That is a lie, my schack has a wood floor.
The next story is no one in our government fly model airplanes. That would also be a slip. There is some in the big house, that is the capital. You know, big building with the dome. Now some hot shot know it all political person knows that. Some of these people are working very hard to protect our rights to fly these things.
The big question is. If you (if you were in government) or anyone else in government needed to talk to someone in the hobby. That speaks for the hobby. Who should these government people go see? Joe's wheel and tire? Perhaps the AMA would be the place to go.
What you think?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

You obviously know more about all those big shots and what they do in their spare time than I do!
Especially about all of them who are working very hard to protect our rights to fly models?
Sorry, I can't picture any of them on Capitol Hill "working very hard" to preserve our hobby.

Where is it written that we have rights to fly toy planes?

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Bottom line; AMA should certainly be an outspoken and ever vigilant advocate for our hobby/sport and of course for all of model aviation beyond us...member or not...and they should make it clear to us, FAA, and any other governmental branch that they do not desire the charge or responsibility of governing model aviators and will not entertain or accept that responsibility either. Unfortunately, it seems to me they have purposely put their foot in the door and there are certainly those that have great designs for AMA to be a quasi government branch if not the real thing...that is what sickens me.

Growing the government, even if it is only by one AMA is not the answer! Never will be!

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

If they don't do it, someone else will. I had much rather the AMA, who has been here since the beginning be involved, than some new organization that sees an opportunity to make a buck. It is going to happen whether we like it or not.
The AMA did not create this mess, but they have seen the writing on the wall and decided to cooperate. That is the way I view it.