Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

quote:
Agreed. I do some work with kids in foster homes, some of them pretty far from where I live. I've never been turned down when I asked a club if I could fly at their field with a kid. And I can't imagine my club saying no to anybody passing through who wanted to fly. Years ago, when my club was between fields (thanks to politicians), two other clubs gave us memberships for $1 until we got back on our feet. Basic decency beats agitating for an AMA rule any day.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

I am not without any experiance with the American Motorcycle Association (see picture below) albeit long ago I feel your assertion is patently absurd. Somehow I don,t think showing up at Daytona Speedways doorstep with my 'other' ama card and expert competition lisense unanounced and expecting practice laps for a token fee is going to work. Nope fat chance.

Now the major problem with this mandate from AMA everyone is daydreaming about is simply who is going to administer it at the local level. Who is going to go to the field everyday on a schedule and make sure the gates are open for travelers (or we must just throw them open and suffer vandelism consequences that are certain to follow) and who pray tell is going to collect the feees? Do we need to hire a gate collector? Well certainly not me and I am not about to bring up something like that when I am busy offering the bgest hospitality I can. Even though We have some daily fee set up in eighteen years I have been a member of this club I have never seen it collected and never seen any visiting flyer turned away, period.

We are a simple club of friends and will not be turned into a commercial business requireing fee collectors or gatekeepers we are not hotel clerks that one posted seemed to imply with a riduculous comparison.

John

Nitro777

Well then I guess clubs are going to continue to die along with AMA membership. I would be willing to do whatever it takes, if I was a truly dedicated club member, to keep this sport/hobby alive........even if it means commercializing just a little bit. A little bit of sacrifice by clubs coud go a long long long way in helping this organization grow.....or do you really want it to grow? I would sure hope so.

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

Joker, I just went back and looked at your first post. You joined RCU this month and all your posts are here. what do you like to fly?. You say you have nothing in common with people my age. Guess what, I was your age and you'll be mine very soon. But lets look at that. Are you married with kids, if yes, then we have something in common. what about work? maybe something there. In any case we both have the love of the hobby and I'll bet we could talk for hours on that alone. Maybe just maybe if you gave people half a chance 60 may not be that bad. I'm sure our 13 year old would talk your head off.
Want to talk jets?, how about GS planes. how about taxes, fixinf stuff around the house. Here's a good one. What does your wife say about you spending the whole day at the field? We have a lot in common, just give me a chance. Dennis

Warbirdguy

Nice point Dennis IM pushing 60, my wife says Im pushing a rope......some of you older guys know what I mean LOL. I served as club president 20 years ago and after I spent time in the board room meetings and all the other duties I have great admiration and respect for what goes on that the general club members either dont know or dont care to know. A few dedicated members of a club makes it look so easy and simple for a well ran club and well manicured field. We dont charge fees for flying other than club membership. If your a visitor, your welcome to fly if you have an AMA card. Just the way the charter and club rules are writen. Internal politics can be a headach and yes there are some members that feel they own the field simply because they probably where there when it was first opened and have spent a lifetime of contributing to make it happen. I wore out 2 of my personal mowers cutting grass at our field for several years furnishing my own fuel and time also. Never asked for anything in return. Just did it cause someone had too and I had free time to do it. So sometimes I feel like I have a right to make policies that sometimes are my own lol. Its part of being involved with an organization. Some might call it a "Pecking order" New people or visitors are not going to have the clout us older established members have. Fact of life. But Im not rude about it Unless someone makes it a personal thing.

My opinion is:

If your going to be at that location for half a year, then approach the club at one of their meetings and discus maybe paying half of the membership. If you stay longer than 6 months, pay them the other half. Im sure if you just talk to THEM in a club meeting setting, they will accomidate.

My wife used to get on to me for being at the field all day until she came for a visit. I think she really thought I was running around on her lol Women dont have a clue. Model airplanes are better than anything another woman can offer. Well to me that is true :P

Have fun and be safe.

rebranger

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

There are people that see solutions everywhere they look. And there are people that see problems everywhere they look. Thanks God for the ones that see solutions.

I guess its a mute point gentlemen. The systemwhich I have been advocating already exists. Find the feild. Call the number. See if they will allow you to fly. Make the arrangements. Enjoy !!

http://www.controlchat.com/field-finder/

Tarasdad

While I oppose the "free for all" field access some seem to want that doesn't mean I'm opposed to non-members being allowed to fly at a club field. Arrangements can always be made, whether it is as a guest of a member or by being granted temporary membership. All I say is that such a decision must be solely at the discretion of the club in question. If the AMA should decide that a standard policy for visiting AMA members should be put in place for sanctioned clubs then so be it. Until that time it will be at each club's discretion as to whether to allow non-member visitors to fly or not and any limits thereon.

mike31

My Feedback: (67)

Sounds like you need to take up knitting!

Mr67Stang

This has worked for me as well. When I visit out of the area I will research the local clubs and contact the POC for the feild I choose. But perhaps the best post snip from this entire thread that would help the OP is from DadsToys here:

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

Because simply put, the AMA isn't paying a thing for the field, so they have no right to mandate in any way, shape, or form who uses it or how much they pay to use it. That's up to the local land owner. The AMA extablishes standards for safety and structure of the club. I don't see where forcing clubs to let visitors fly being mandated by the AMA falls into this category.

I travel a LOT. Everywhere I go, I find the local flying club. EVERY club I've visited, after talking with the flyers for a while, has told me "Next time you come, bring a plane". I've even had club members offer to let me fly their planes. And nobody has ever asked for a contribution to the club.

If a club sees a benefit in a daily use fee, they'll adopt it. Personally as a club president I don't see it as being something we could reasonably establish. Doing so would now make the club liable for sales and use taxes, addtional paperwork. If a site is locked, how would a single day user get access? Or are they supposed to provide a combination and have to change the lock after every day user?

If you want to fly at a club, pay the membership. If the club won't let you join, why would you want to force yourself on those that don't want you?

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Not 100% true...it is well known that AMA makes substantial grants to clubs for development purposes...and each and every AMA member's dues contribute to the general fund that allows the very low cost club insurance...which is actually the best value of all the AMA fees.

cj_rumley

Good point and very much on-topic. Each and every AMA member includes the ~50% that are not members of clubs, yet they pay for AMA benefits enjoyed exclusively by club members. Not that it buys OP any 'right's to use of a chartered club field, but perhaps some consideration.

pilotchute

My Feedback: (29)

...it is well known that AMA makes substantial grants to clubs for development purposes...and each and every AMA member's dues contribute to the general fund that allows the very low cost club insurance...which is actually the best value of all the AMA fees.
[/quote]


Good point and very much on-topic. Each and every AMA member includes the ~50% that are not members of clubs, yet they pay for AMA benefits enjoyed exclusively by club members. Not that it buys OP any 'right's to use of a chartered club field, but perhaps some consideration.
[/quote]


VERY GOOD. Without AMA insurance, club membership cost would make r/c a rich man's game. Without insurance, try to get a local government to provide authorization for a field.

slick69

Johnbuckner, we're not talking about RC car races, we are talking about the National Hot Rod Association (NHRA), American Race Car Association (ARCA), American Motorcycle Association (the "Other" AMA). If you are a member of these organizations you can go to any track in the nation and use it whenever you want for a daily/hourly fee. You don't have to be a member of the local club to go do what you love in these organizations. There's ALOT more money , time, and danger involved with these groups. Why can't our AMA be the same way????????? Pay your dues to them, then go use any flying field you want , anywhere you want for a daily/ hourly fee. If you want a say in the way the field looks/ operates, then join the club, but if you don't want to be involved in the politics then just pay a daily/ hourly usage fee. If it was this way I would pay $100 for an AMA membership as long as I knew I could go anywhere to fly.

Read more: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_97...#ixzz0qmKKdvNN


Amen to this!!

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

Ithink it would be a mistake to make a program where it was mandatorythat you mustallow visitors. Clubs near vacation destinations would be over run with visitors. How can a club function if 70 or 80 percent of the traffic is transient? I think each club should decide what is best for itself.

Silent-AV8R

Another outlier are the clubs located on military bases, which strictly control access to members of the club. There are at least two like that here in SOCAL.

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

Are there any clubs that charge a daily or hourly fee for visitors? If not, or if there are only a few, that would seem to suggest that there are reasons why it may be a bad idea for some clubs. Any AMA club is free to adopt this practice if it wants to. If very few of them want to, there must be reasons. Have those of you who think it's a good idea proposed it to your own clubs? I would oppose it for my own club, because I think we should be more welcoming to people passing through and let them fly free as guests, as we now do. Others have pointed out other reasons for their clubs not to want the proposed rule.

There's a big difference between "I think X is a good idea" and "I think X is a good idea and therefore everybody should be forced to do it." Especially in a supposedly free country. We need some uniform rules for safety. If safety is not an issue, and it isn't here, clubs ought to be allowed to do what they think best.

cj_rumley

Yes. An example in my general vicinity (SoCal) is PVMAC, resident club at the publicly owned Prado Dam Rec Area near Chino. As it is peripheral to a megalopolis where flying sites are very scarce, there may be some pressure from the owning agency to accommodate non-members. Ask Silent-AV8R about it, he is closer to it than I am.

I didn't suggest anybody should be forced to do anything. Who did?

Tarasdad

One of the primary (if not THE primary) reasons you'll find very few clubs that allow a "daily fee" type access is the tax liability they incur. Even if your club has incorporated under non-profit status you still face a substantial tax liability for "excess" income. Not a lot of clubs are going to want to deal with the paperwork and legal issues involved.

Silent-AV8R

PVMAC is closed to non-members Monday through Friday (except for special events). On weekends any current AMA member can fly there by paying a small fee. I am not certain what the genesis of that plan was, but I have never sensed that the County (it is in a County Park) has ever made a big deal of it. I think it was something that the club decided to do from the get go. It has worked pretty well for a number of years.

cj_rumley

Tax consequences are a consideration, but I don't see them as a really big deal even if the club is going to an extreme to profiteer by taking advantage of the situation. Nobody loses from paying taxes as a consequence of generating more income. I'm wide open to any counter argument on that issue.
I think more germane to the topic is the tenuous nature of a lease with a public entity for the exclusive use of public property. The custodians of public property seem, and I admit to a bias in their favor that generally gives them credit for this, to have an inclination to make public property available for use by the public, and a reluctance to have it tied up in leases to private entities where the lease terms arbitrarily exclude the public.
IOW, it may be advantageous to a club operating on public property to provide some measure of accommodation to the public, if only in the interest of protecting their own access to public property - even if, or especially if, it includes a condition that public persons aka 'taxpayers' must subscribe to a private non-profit enterprise for access.

cj_rumley

So, it works. What more needs to be said than that?

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

cjrumley said:
You didn't, but the OP and everyone who agreed with him were arguing for having the AMA require all AMA chartered clubs to allow AMA members to fly at their fields, for a fee.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

It seems the discussion has evolved somewhat since the OP made that suggestion. Currently the discussion is moreabout the feasibility of some sort of shared field concept.