twostroke

My Feedback: (6)

After having lots of trouble with planes being shot down at our field we go a tester from the ama to check if someone is interfering with us. Sure enough there is, but trying to get some help is imposible no one will help us resolve this, FCC told us there is nothing they can do and the AMA will not return our calls. So whats the deal are we just spose to lay down and let the train run us over and over again. We are now limited to only 2.4Ghz at our field and our members with 72mhz are out of luck. From what we understand the 72mhz that we run channel 11-60 were sold out and no one every informed us this Did i miss something but wasn't the Ama spose to protect these and if they couldn't I believe we should be aware before some on gets hurt or worse killed!!! Any suggestion would help out greatly we have been at the same field for 25 years and would hate to leave. We are not sure if the sell out thing is true but it would be great to find out the real truth of the matter. Hope to hear from someone........Twostroke.

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

Who at the FCC told you there was nothing you could do? Did you check with the Spectrum Enforcement Division? See their webpage at http://www.fcc.gov/eb/sed/
Written complaints are always better than telephone complaints. That should give you a starting point. If you don't get a response, send a handwritten note to your congressman. Handwritten notes are given more attention than email or typewritten notes. You should also make an audio recording with a tunable reciever in the bands of interest. That may help determine the actual source of the interference. All radiators must comply with FCC regulations, and if they are causing interference outside thier authorized band, you should have a valid complaint. If the FCC won't listen, contact a lawyer. If you have a club member that's a lawyer, even better.

Is the interference across all channels, or only on specific channels? Note that if its just interference with other flyers operating close to your field, they are operating in accordance with FCC regulations, and the FCC won't do anything. If its a television station, telephone relay, or powerlines, you should also contact the owners and let them know about the problem, and CC them on any written correspondence to the FCC or your congressman.

Brad

Silent-AV8R

Keep in mind that on the 72 MHz frequencies we are secondary users. So if there is a licensed/legal primary user that is the source of the conflict there is very little that can be done.

With regard to the no response from the AMA, I suggest you contact your District VP and let them know that you contacted HQ and did not get a call back.

MajorTomski

About 10 years ago Oklahoma City lost every frequency above channel 30, but it was intermittant. We were lucky to have an RC'er who was also a tech at a local TV station. He brought his rig out and found out that the local ABC affilate had gone "digital" and hadn't completed all the tests. They were ILLEGALLY bleeding over into 72 MHZ and above. Funny the problem went away then next day.

I suggest you ask your local TV station for some help and see if they can see a different problem

KidEpoxy

"So whats the deal are we just spose to lay down and let the train run us over and over again."

Well, thats part of the fun when you choose to use a shared frequency, like 72.
If you open the club at 8am, and someone somewhere is already using some channels, you MAYNOT interfere with their legal right to use that shared freq.... in exactly the same way other users maynot interfere if you are using it first. But keep in mind, that there is no 'Dibs' on freqs, that if a pilot at the club is the first to use that freq, as soon as that pilot turns off (to hand the pin to the next pilots waiting at impound)... that freq becomes available to everyone again: You cannot make any claim to that freq while you are not actually transmitting on it. Just because that freq checked clear at 8am does NOT allow you to willy-nilly switch on at 8:32 after you land and refuel for another flight.... for those 8 minutes ANYONE may start using that freq and you are forbidden from interfering with them, just as they are from interfering with you.

If you want to use the freq, but it is already in use, you have to 'not interfere' with others use of that freq
.... regardless of any club/org affiliation you have.

If you want FCC to care, get some good documentation of the violation-
Shoot vid of you using a checker on the freq,
start transmitting to a benched plane,
and when the gitters start shut off TX and show the checker proving someone started interfering while you were legally actively transmitting.


However
while other users of that freq may simply rely on a freq checker 'to insure they dont start interference while you are transmitting',
the club chose to join an org that requires the club to lay down and give up under freq conflicts.
Call your ama district Freq Dude, ask about getting a Freq Agreement (sharing plan), and the different types of plans,
and you will see how the club is required by the AMA to not fly with freq conflicts, but the AMA has no hold over others flying with freq conflict.


What exactly does the club want the other freq users to do?
Others should check the freq at each TX Turn-on to insure they dont interfere with a freq in use?
Are YOU willing to do the same, and sit it out if they are using it... just as you want them to do?

What resolution are you looking for?
Freq sharing, or Freq Ownership?

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

Some of you might be a lil confused. The 72mHz band does have legal users in the band but they are NOT using ANY or our channels. The fact that they could be "bleeding" into out channels is another story, and perhaps (most likely) the reason behind this problem.

So as a suggestion to the OP, be a little more persistent. Get the District VP involved, and as suggested before, the Spectrum Enforcement Division. If you are sure that it is NOT another RCer the one generating the interference, then somebody is ILLEGALLY transmitting in a frquency not assigned to them.

This has nothing to do with shared frequencies as we are the only ones allowed to use the discreet channels (11 to 60) in the 72mHz band. Again, make sure the interference is not generated by another RCer.

Rafael

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

twostroke

My Feedback: (6)

We have been contacted by the president of the ama over our issue and they are now helping out, sometimes you have to go to top. I am impressed with him taking intrest in a small clubs problems.

KidEpoxy

Twostroke,
did you determine whether the interference is coming from another RC user, or a non-RC source?

twostroke

My Feedback: (6)

We think it is a cell tower next to us.

tinner1

twostroke ,

First,
Let me say I hope your club has success in resolving this problem. I for one am NOT surprised at Dave's interest in resolving this problem. I think too many people post poor responses from the AMA when it is in fact not the case. I have NEVER had a problem with getting answers from the AMA like a lot of posts claim.

Secondly,
I would like to ask you on behalf of the AMA, and everyone who supports the AMA to report this:

I and others are so sick and tired of all the "Why join the AMA posts" that those people need to be shown this every time there is a post complaining the AMA does nothing!!!! It's easy to bash and put down things on these forums, so when the TRUE AMA FACTS present themselves they need to be spread to the masses.

Again, I wish you the best of luck with this problem. Please keep us informed as to the progress.

dbcisco

If the "intereference" is coming from a legal source and their equipment is within specs it can still cause intereference to many things close by. If that is the case there is nothing the AMA, FCC or an army of lawyers can do about it. Commercial radio towers will always have some harmonic emissions and they are allowed a specified amount even if it "interferes" with other systems close by.

Basically RC users, even those on 2.4Ghz, have few rights and can be trampled by other users of the same frequencies.
I was watching US congressional debate the other day on opening up the 2.4Ghz bandwidth for licensed high power WIFI!!!!
If that happens 2.4Ghz stomping will be far worse than FM ever was.

Muroc1

That's unsettling news. How will that effect us?

Frank

dbcisco

The arguement in congress was that WIFI internet connections are the wave of the future and that it needs much higher wattage/range than is currently allowed. It also seemed that it would be for licensed (IE: $$$$$) use only (RE: Comcast, Verizon Et Al). Seemed like they wanted to ban private WIFI owners from setting up themselves as ISPs, get the big companies to make more money and ruin the current 2.4Ghz range for all secondary users (if not ban them out-right). Remember that 802.11 WIFI and other devices use the exact same frequencies as RC radios. Essentially, it could make all other 2.4Ghz equipment either useless or illegal.
If it would mean alot more money for the Gov't in licensing fees then it has a good chance of being passed at some point. Esp. since more people want universal wireless internet access than fly RC airplanes.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

How is the AMA helping out ? Can you please tell us what the AMA has done for you? I am curious to hear their protocol in this matter.

Muroc1

I wonder what kind of range they are talking about. What is the effective range on wifi modems right now? I know I can "see" my neighbors wifi on my PC, but the signal is not very good.

Frank

dbcisco

Current private WIFI range is, at best, 300 ft. usually much less. Tere are ways to double that range within FCC regs but not for the normal user.

Muroc1

Thanks for the additional info. That's what I was thinking as well. Did you hear what range the new equipment (if approved) will be able to reach out to?

Also, do you know where I can find anymore info on the discussions in Congress about this?

Thanks,

Frank

dbcisco

I beleive it was Senate discussion of the Radio Spectrum Inventory Act which was passed by the HR in April, but I am not sure.
For some background on the act go to [link=http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.649:]US Senate Bills[/link]

dbcisco

I should point out that the document linked above is basically a "cover letter" the actual contents are missing. A clue to hidden content is in the last part of the document. Also, much "secret" itmes gets added to every bill by the time it becomes law (AKA pork barrel).

Muroc1

Thanks for the info.

Frank

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

So companies are going to boost the wifi power enough that we all get internet for free ? Why wouldcompanies do that ? What am I missing here ?

dbcisco

Not free. You will have to pay Comcast, Verizon etc. for it.

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

What kind of power are we talking about? Recognize that 2.4 ghz is essentially a line of site transmission, and does not penetrate through walls very effectively. Its also around the same frequency as your microwave oven. Those operate in the 1500-2000 watt range, but don't cause interference outside the house and are shielded with a simple faraday cage. Seems the commercial guys would be killing a lot of pigeons to provide sufficient power for free WiFi over large areas.

Is the sky really falling?

Brad

dbcisco

1 watt (unlicensed max.) at 2.4Ghz has about a 3 mile line of site range.
Many cities and universities are already providing WAN WIFI.