KidEpoxy

Does AMA owe like $2.5mil to somebody.. and they're getting interest off what we owe them?

Are we putting a million dollars into the stock market, while owing all that money?

Gremlin Castle

My Feedback: (14)

Yeah they are behind on their NATO payment for secret road sign marking and at least one cabal that is promoting world domination by Park Flyers and 3-D keyboard pilots.
Also, they are renting a stealth helicopter to check up on renegade groups that don't read their magazine which has encrypted messages for those that are in the inner circle.
I got my interest payment deposited into my secret bank acount, didn't you?

dbcisco

I would build my conspiracy theory around the $6million "Operating Expenses" that isn't broken down. I would rather have them investing than keeping the money in a matress.

foodstick

Maybe invest in rc submarines and trucks equipped with metal detectors? comb the earth and seas for gold bullion and treasure?

it amazes me people are still dragging fortunes out of the ground and water...I suppose they always will be....

dbcisco

Make that the $2.5 million in salaries. I thought this was run by volunteers and unpaid officials.

Tarasdad

The HQ staff are paid since that's their full-time job. Other contractors are also paid and included in that figure. All DVP and others are unpaid volunteers. Nothing hidden, nothing conspiratorial, just standard business practice.

If you want conspiracies look elsewhere.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

It was me! [sm=bananahead.gif][sm=bananahead.gif][sm=bananahead.gif]

KidEpoxy

heh,
I already know who we make $200k principle payments to each year
(plus the interest)


but do y'all know who AMA owes millions to?

Live Wire

Holy Cow the Change sure made a difference. How stupid are we or were we. I can not believe how many people do not know what is taking place
Been here before I'm gone

dbcisco

It is not standard business practice in a NPO to spend almost half of your gross income on salaries. BTDT

dbcisco

From gov't records analysis:

"Employees paid over $50,000 in 2006: 29.0%
Academy Of Model Aeronautics Ama: 29.0%
Other organizations performing similar types of work: 0.0%


Read more: http://www.faqs.org/tax-exempt/IN/Ac...#ixzz0uxFGLEEo

Hossfly

WOW! Great Link, "dbcisco". Is that available for 2009?

dbcisco

That was the only one I could find so far.

dbcisco

Found the [link=http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/520/520799408/520799408_200812_990.pdf]2008 Tax Return[/link] for the AMA. Lots of interesting stuff in there.

Hossfly

In a few minutes scan that too seems very very inter-rest-ing!

Will be musing that over within the next month. Thanks much for your work.

KidEpoxy

way to go Cisco!

getting back to post#1:

check the 2008 tax return you found, pdf pg11-
Line23 debt
Line11 investment


from the AMA's annual reports:
Net Cash Provided (Used) By Investing Activities (ama 08 pdf pg6)
2009 (1,370,969)
2008 138,050
2007 (238,331)

"Interest expense on the revenue bonds was" (ama 08 pdf pg12)
2009 $26,387
2008 $89,223
2007 $137,345


Heres an idea-
Lets borrow a few million dollars more, and put it in the stock market.
Now, lets discuss if it is a good or bad idea for AMA play the market with borrowed money?

dbcisco

Investing the money rather than spending it is always a wise move. Most organizations invest in themselves though. The assets of the AMA are pretty large though. Probably the value of the museum and its contents.

KidEpoxy

Sure,
if we had extra money I dont see a problem with investing it rather than spending it for the sake of spending.

However,
if we have -$2.6mil,
how much of that negative money should we invest?

more to the point,
we owed $2.8mil
we had $3.5mil invested
so we took $1.4mil of 2009 cash, and put it into which?

What we didnt do was this-
make us owe $0mil
make us have $2.1mil invested
use that $1.4mil 2009 cash to eliminate our interest bearing debt


Let me phrase it this way:
If you could control the Investment slider,
from $2.1mil invested with $0 debt
to $10.1mil invested with $8mil debt
where you you set it?
(keep the red numbers in my last post in mind)

dbcisco

If I can borrow at 3% and invest it to make 10-25% I wouldn't need a job.
Oh yeah, I would be a bank.

KidEpoxy

Let me phrase it this way:
If you could control the Investment slider,
from $2.1mil invested with $0 debt
to $10.1mil invested with $8mil debt
where you you set it?

How many years back in ama annual reports do you have to go
to find the point that we break even on investment gains vs $1.6mil investment losses in just 09 & 07?
You say borrowing at 3% to make 10% is a good idea,
that is only the case when you can be certain of that 10%... borrowing at 3% and maybe losing 30% of it is not sound

dbcisco

It is the duty (by federal law) of the administation of any corporation (even NPOs) to make sound financial decissions for that company. However, many admistrations run their company into the ground, make stupid decissions and investments and even embezzle funds. The missmanagement is rarely stopped or reported. let alone anyone convicted of crimes. NPOs are no different.
There comes a time for NPOs when they become so big that the members are powerless to control it. It becomes an autocracy that is unnswereable to the members. Just like a representative democracy. It is neither representative nor democratic.

cj_rumley

dbcisco-

You have done a nice job of searching for facts (and finding them) that either back up or possibly contraindicate your positions on issues of some importance to AMA members that give a tinker's dam. There's a lot of factual info in what you have found to cut through confusion that has abounded for lack of disclosure, and that should lead to resolution of a lot of sometimes heated debate that has occurred here. Nothing like truth and openness to lead to mutual understanding. Thanks. <doesn't necessarily mean I agree with your opinions in toto or for that matter in any part, but I am better informed to form my own>

Cletus

dbcisco

My opinions and conclusions can always be wrong. Presenting official documents is as close to factual as I can get.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Many, many organizations have fallen prey to greedy executives! How many times can we look back and see how inflated salaries have destroyed orgs and even the morals and ethics of a nation? People say, "What is a man worth?" and they will grumble, bellyache and complain and yet they fear men that get such power.

I think dishonest weights and measures (inflated salaries and the like) have caused a major problem in this country and of course it will continue until the people look for honest men and quit voting the "greedy scumbags" in official positions because they will gain some plush benefit from it.

I heard on the radio recently that a government or county official in California was making 800k annually while his small town is all but dried up, businesses failing, you know the drill...nothing to comment about it but amazing to state the least!

To me, a TRUE leader will serve and keep an honest heart about it. If he ever fall prey to slicing and dicing he steps down from his post with head in shame and does his best to make reconciliation and would be marked for his improper dealings. How many do we know have done that? The only difference between the money grubbers from a theif is that they steal without using a gun.

Ok, let me stop before I go ballistic!

Sport_Pilot

Most of us, at least those who borrowed to buy a house, have more money owed than invested in the stock market.  Maybe that money would be better spent to pay down debt, maybe it would be better in the stock market. Only time will tell, but probably better to diversify.  Myself I have kept money in the stock market but have stopped adding to it and using money I used to put in the stock market to pay extra down on the mortgage.  If AMA is doing the opposite or a bit of both, they may or may not be making a wiser choice.  I don't see why you have to troll about lotto tickets.