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Solutions for AMA's membership decline

Old 11-16-2010, 12:24 PM
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline



Kind of neat seeing some humor in this ever-so-serious forum. [sm=bananahead.gif]
Old 11-16-2010, 05:54 PM
  #552  
John Casey
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

I love hot dogs....
Yes ...we can get too serious about what is supposed to be a recreational Hobby/sport.....

I have met few fellow RCU members that I did not have a good laugh with concerning some of the nonsense we debate and write in these forums. No punches ever thrown yet.
There are lots of us out here in the real world that are passionate about what we think in our minds is "our hobby". But sometimes that passion turns to nearly a sort of craziness. As most americans we tend to fight about how to go about reaching the same goal, or fix the same problem. Its no different here. I can only Hope the AMA folks read these, pick out some of the problems that we members here have identified, and try to do something to fix them.

(Brad I have founded an AMA club, been an AMA member in clubs on both coasts,board member in 3 clubs and have watched AMA clubs head for the moral and ethical abyss and reach it. Which is why I believe the AMA should step in sometimes to set things straight. Most clubs need no oversight but sometimes(rarely) they just need somebody to step in and knock some heads.)
Old 11-16-2010, 08:22 PM
  #553  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

Tilapia are of African origin. They are fish farmed world wide in the tropics, and are a major factor in disrupting aquatic ecosystems where they have been introduced (google Tilapia in Fiji for example). There are a number of species, and various hybrids, used in the fish farming business. I've only eaten then in resturants, and thought them OK; fairly bland, as is to be expected with a fish farmed on a largely vegetable diet.

I love the little vienna sausages. In the army, that's what the C ration hot dogs tasted like. Whenever we had them, a lot of guys didn't like them, and I was able to stuff myself.
Old 11-16-2010, 08:23 PM
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline


ORIGINAL: airkiller

I love hot dogs....
Yes ...we can get too serious about what is supposed to be a recreational Hobby/sport.....

I have met few fellow RCU members that I did not have a good laugh with concerning some of the nonsense we debate and write in these forums. No punches ever thrown yet.
There are lots of us out here in the real world that are passionate about what we think in our minds is ''our hobby''. But sometimes that passion turns to nearly a sort of craziness. As most americans we tend to fight about how to go about reaching the same goal, or fix the same problem. Its no different here. I can only Hope the AMA folks read these, pick out some of the problems that we members here have identified, and try to do something to fix them.

(Brad I have founded an AMA club, been an AMA member in clubs on both coasts,board member in 3 clubs and have watched AMA clubs head for the moral and ethical abyss and reach it. Which is why I believe the AMA should step in sometimes to set things straight. Most clubs need no oversight but sometimes(rarely) they just need somebody to step in and knock some heads.)
Airkiller,

In the not too distant past,(last year), AMA did in fact step in and set straight a club having some, shall we say, moral issues.
This site won't let me say on which forum the discussion took place, but initials are FG.
Look for a thread about the SSRCC.

Old 11-17-2010, 12:37 AM
  #555  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline


ORIGINAL: Luchnia

AMA can have involvement in local clubs and not be controlling. Healthy and value added involvement is good for the hobby, but control of the wrong type could be detrimental. Just how much value added involvement do they have now?
Please explain how.
Old 11-17-2010, 11:18 AM
  #556  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline


ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

ok, lets do what can and will grow the AMA then.

We know we cant get toy airplanes on TV.
We know we see the CupStacking recreation group on TV.
Solution: We expand AMAs insurance to cover aircraft, cars, boats, rockets... and cup stacking.

We just swallow the existing televised cup stackers into our insurance and club system.
Instant membership spike,
and Muncie gets to hire yet more publishing folks for the new CupStacking Quarterly
Probably as good as it gets!

Is this why?

I was just reviewing some of the stuff in my computer logs and found these two items, stored sometime back. I am not the author. I just found them somewhere along the way.
They say a lot about organizations. IMO, both apply to AMA. I remember when AMA was an Ex. Director, and Assistant Ex. Director, one publications person and two secretaries. Things have changed!

Parkinson's Laws: 1) Work expands to fill the time available for its completion; the thing to be done swells in perceived importance and complexity in a direct ratio with the time to be spent in its completion. 2) Expenditures rise to meet income. 3) Expansion means complexity; and complexity decay. 4) The number of people in any working group tends to increase regardless of the amount of work to be done. 5) If there is a way to delay an important decision the good bureaucracy, public or private, will find it. 6) The progress of science is inversely proportional to the number of journals published.

The Peter Principle is the principle that "In a Hierarchy Every Employee Tends to Rise to His Level of Incompetence." It was formulated by Dr. Laurence J. Peter and Raymond Hull in their 1969 book The Peter Principle, a humorous treatise which also introduced the "salutary science of Hierarchiology", "inadvertently founded" by Peter. It holds that in a hierarchy, members are promoted so long as they work competently. Sooner or later they are promoted to a position at which they are no longer competent (their "level of incompetence"), and there they remain, being unable to earn further promotions.
This principle can be modeled and has theoretical validity.[1] Peter's Corollary states that "in time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out his duties" and adds that "work is accomplished by those employees who have not yet reached their level of incompetence".

I tend to think that the Governments - each and all levels - do NOT have total ownership of these two items. I think just maybe that our subject organization has also applied, and is maintaining these principles! [sm=49_49.gif]
Old 11-17-2010, 12:49 PM
  #557  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline


ORIGINAL: warningshot


ORIGINAL: Luchnia

AMA can have involvement in local clubs and not be controlling. Healthy and value added involvement is good for the hobby, but control of the wrong type could be detrimental. Just how much value added involvement do they have now?
Please explain how.
One thing that comes to mind quickly is promotional items. This can be a fairly long list of things, like local TV, Radio, Newspaper, posters, banners, flyers to local businesses to name a few. Those are value added things and not controlling items. They promote club growth and the hobby in general and foster/encourage stronger commitments, activities, public awareness, etc.

Often times introducing more complexity into the processes (for lack of a better term) is detrimental to club growth or growth to any org really. Kind of like saying, You have to do this or that which usually winds up being problems at some point. This is only my experience as others may have had other experiences. I am only 56 so I have only seen so much, but I have been involved with non-profits and aware of a lot of the pitfalls.

Maybe just give out free hot dogs? [X(]
Old 11-17-2010, 02:50 PM
  #558  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

I would agree with all but your point number six. Progress in science is the fastest it has ever been, and the number of journals the greatest it has ever been. I recall reading about a study, published back in the 1930's, on the optimum size for a committee. The optimum committee size is 0.7 person.

One modification of the Peter Principle is that an employee incompetent in one area is sometimes promoted to another area in the hope that they have competence in that area. It occasionally works out.
Old 11-18-2010, 01:42 AM
  #559  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline


ORIGINAL: Jim Thomerson

I would agree with all but your point number six. Progress in science is the fastest it has ever been, and the number of journals the greatest it has ever been. I recall reading about a study, published back in the 1930's, on the optimum size for a committee. The optimum committee size is 0.7 person.
No contest there, Jim. However it's Parkinson's Points, not mine. I did think it was a cute thing to punch at AMA with because as of a few minutes ago, they are displaying only 6 employees in the Membership Department, yet there are 13 employees (2 are kinda' employees) in the Publications Dept. Over twice as many employees assigned to the publications as to the membership. IMO, that is somewhat kind of the cart pulling the horse!!!

One modification of the Peter Principle is that an employee incompetent in one area is sometimes promoted to another area in the hope that they have competence in that area. It occasionally works out.
Certainly! That is true in all walks of life. Each has his/her place in the scheme of things. However when one is in the proper scheme of things, but because of being properly political and puckering lips in the proper spots, gets promoted, then finds oneself unable to handle the job, yet is kept there, that is the Peter Principle at its best!
Old 12-11-2010, 09:14 PM
  #560  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

I would suggest, look for new ways to expand the hobby. There is a growing interest in FPV, UAV's, quadcopters, and autonomous flight. It would bring in a different demographic that could prove very fruitful. It would also legitimize some of the activities and give them some representation and supervision to keep them from getting in trouble. Lot of smart engineers and young kids are playing with these Aurdino boards. It could also give way to a foothold into the schools as the application of science and technology will be sought after.

Sorry I am new here, Use to be a AMA member, Looking to get back into the hobby. However after getting my Engineering degree my interest to come back was sparked by some developments outside of the normal RC community. I was hoping that some of these UAV activities were noticed and that AMA had guidelines for operation. Apparently, AMA hasn't changed at all since i left for College 10 years ago.
Old 12-12-2010, 11:00 AM
  #561  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

The term "analysis paralysis" or "paralysis of analysis" refers to over-analyzing (or over-thinking) a situation, so that a decision or action is never taken, in effect paralyzing the outcome. A decision can be treated as over-complicated, with too many detailed options, so that a choice is never made, rather than try something and change if a major problem arises. A person might be seeking the optimal or "perfect" solution upfront, and fear making any decision which could lead to erroneous results, when on the way to a better solution.

fliers1
Old 12-14-2010, 11:40 AM
  #562  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

After reading most of the thread it seem that teired membership keep popping up. How would you address the safety part of the teirs. 3D profile flyers have much less clames that circle type flyers. Beginner flyers and senior flyers have the most clames. Safer pilots should pay less.

I for one think teir membership might not work. Look at the outrage that we have seen on the PPP. I think there are alot of things that could be changed starting with MA and the grounds in Ind. But the cost per member is very small.

Maybe the AMA should try to bring all the flyers togeather with rules if need be.

Crash99
Old 12-14-2010, 08:13 PM
  #563  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline


ORIGINAL: crash99

After reading most of the thread it seem that teired membership keep popping up. How would you address the safety part of the teirs. 3D profile flyers have much less clames that circle type flyers. Beginner flyers and senior flyers have the most clames. Safer pilots should pay less.
Crash-

What is the source of the claims data you cited?
Old 12-16-2010, 06:55 AM
  #564  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

cj_rumley ,
Crash-

What is the source of the claims data you cited?
cj, Prepare yourself for one of the most "unbiased" answers you'll ever see on RCU...crash even has a web page to spread his "views"!

Keep in mind 3 Dr's NEVER hit real airplanes! They ALL are way too safe when they fly...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvcN-0PikEU
Old 12-17-2010, 03:27 PM
  #565  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

Before the power to weight ratios made it to what they are today ....There were'nt any 3der's.
No 3d planes ....no 3d helis.....everybody had to......" fly the pattern".
And there were no arguments about "hovering over the runway" as the technology could not support that type of flight.

Technology is a great thing, but some people and even some clubs lack the wisdom to use it
and not upset long standing rules of model aviation. (which BTW come to us from FAA controlled and enforced full scale aviation).
If a club or its leadership...gets completely out of hand operating a 'flying site" the members seldom have the fruit between there legs or the power within their bylaws to do anything about it. When the police (club leaders) are the ones doing the crimes..who do you turn to?
They have the : treasury...the newsletter...and can bring "power and money to bear" against any member or members opposing them.

The AMA charter and loss of it is the only weapon that can be brought to bear against a "chartered" club operating in a way that is detrimental to model aviation and the true will of its members. So having the AMA act as the FAA gives AMA members somebody to turn to when things are not being properly run or operated. One of the biggest complaints has been politics....we have nobody to turn to when "our model airplane gov't ..goes corrupt.

luchina gave a good list of positive things that could also come about by having the AMA Guide a Club.That list could be expanded to prevention of club corruption,prevention of bad judgement, prevention of false ideas taking root ...as modeling truth.
Old 12-20-2010, 07:45 AM
  #566  
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This is what has happened here in south Texas, I joined in 2005 and their was so much to like about the local clubs. The 2 clubs had twice as many members as today and there was also twice the amount of PARTICIPATING members in each club! Today it is a TOTALLY different story, the warbird guys have all but disappeared I think we have 1 left that is active and still flies regularly, many are still dues paying members but rarely if ever come out to fly. One problem that is finally starting to be addressed is stagnant leadership or board of directors that have NO participation are being removed and being replaced with active members that fly regularly. If you fly regularly you have alot more to loose if a flying field is lost. As far as youth membership I find that has no answers, you can't make the younger generation want to fly airplanes and learn the mechanical skills to maintain a airplane. We used to build things in this country but over the years those type of jobs have been exported to third world countries because slave labor is more profitable for large corporations. Now we have the majority of people working in paper pusher jobs that require no mechanical skills! Today if maintaining an airplane takes more then plugging a fresh battery in it is above most peoples desire and skill level. I wish their was an answer but there is not and once you factor in a steadily declining economy to the mix and declining factory worker presence most with large pensions that are steadily dying off we have no real answers for our steadily declining hobby!
Old 12-20-2010, 08:22 AM
  #567  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

There are answers, but unfortunately, I believe that most clubs are quite happy with their status quo and reallly don't have any use for the inconvienence associated with growth.

Just ask any club member how they would feel if their membeship numbers quickly doubled or tripled1

Old 12-20-2010, 08:33 AM
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

My club would love it if our roster tripled.
Then our annual meetings could be held at a steak house rather than a buffet
.... assuming we continue the trend of only 1/2 the membership attending the annual meeting,
and calling it a good turnout if we can get 1/5 the membership at the field any given weekend


btw,
was kinda cold at the field this weekend,
would have been a great time to ladle out a pot of AMA brand chili from a coleman stove as a hand warmer.
be a great way to tap into the 100million "Chili-Eater" demographic:
Get em hooked on AMA chili and they can learn about model aviation from the jar labels... drum up some new interest in modeling
Old 12-20-2010, 03:45 PM
  #569  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline


ORIGINAL: DR.B.S.

There are answers, but unfortunately, I believe that most clubs are quite happy with their status quo and reallly don't have any use for the inconvienence associated with growth.

Just ask any club member how they would feel if their membeship numbers quickly doubled or tripled.

fliers1


we have plenty of members in our, approximately 70.... out of those there are only about 3 or 4 regular flyers.... i would love it if the activity doubled or even tripled
Old 12-20-2010, 04:31 PM
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

Every club has "hangers-on" that join, but never fly. I'll bet if a study was done of actual fliers vs. total club members, there are a lot less people flying rc than we think!
Old 12-20-2010, 06:37 PM
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline


ORIGINAL: DR.B.S.

There are answers, but unfortunately, I believe that most clubs are quite happy with their status quo and reallly don't have any use for the inconvienence associated with growth.

Just ask any club member how they would feel if their membeship numbers quickly doubled or tripled.

fliers1

Ours is a small club (22 members). We would be very happy to see it double or triple in size.
I would say that most small clubs would feel the same.
Old 12-20-2010, 06:41 PM
  #572  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

I guess we should be glad that they are dues paying members even if they are no shows at the field. If the regular flyers had to pay all the field expenses by themselves this would be much more expensive hobby. I'm happy as long as there is at least one other flyer at the field because flying alone really sucks!
Old 12-24-2010, 12:30 PM
  #573  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

I guess I'll chime in. First off, let's be truthful. Most of the die-hard AMA members are seniors. Their generation are dying off pretty quickly now (no offense). When they started flying, being a member of the AMA was pretty much looked upon as being an honor/privelege. It's not like that now. AMA memberships are going to go down when overall club attendace is down. If you don't have as many folks flying, you're not going to have as many AMA members. So, why aren't there as many folks flying these days? I think it's the economy, mainly. Poeple's money is very, very tight right now. Ok, you're saying there's not that much money involved. Well, it is if you look at it from a weekly flyer's standpoint, who lives 30 minutes or longer away from the field. Gas and lunch is probably the largest expense, that is if you already have a fleet of models. I know first handedly about membership decline, because it's happening to my club. Guys with planes/equipment running out of their ears are getting out. So there, you've lost some more AMA members.

As far as new membership, it's very iffy. Most adults who are wanting to get into the hobby have kids. It's usually the parent who's more interested in getting into it than the kid. Technology (portable video games/cell phones) have distracted young people's minds from our hobby. They don't need the hobby, they already have one. So, most wives are going to suggest a man taking his son with him to the field. Well, if the son doesn't want to go, becuase he wants to stay home and play Wii/Playstation, there's a good chance dad doesn't get to go. If he does get to go, he's probably dealing with a curfew (spelling ?). Time is also an issue. Kids are so involved in sports and extracorrilular activities, etc. that the parent simply doesn't have time for a hobby. Believe me, I'm almost there. Sunday is the only day of the week I get to fly.

The only other thing I can suggest for getting the membership up is getting the club some exposure. You'd be surpised at how many people don't even know a local club exists.

Just my two cents worth.
Old 12-24-2010, 12:52 PM
  #574  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

Giving it some thought, any reason for AMA's decline will wash. Thing is, if all of these reasons ring true, there isn't a thing that anyone can do to change AMA's membership downwards direction.

Therefore, all we can do is sit back and wait for the bitter end. After all, there is nothing we can do about the economy, kids passion for video games, public apathy, loss of flying sites, angry neighbors,
fear if growth clubs, lack of flight instructors, horrible weather conditions on a regular basis, instant gratification society, http://www.modelaircraft.org/insider/10_01/leader.htm
http://www.modelaircraft.org/insider/10_09/leader.htm http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_18...tm.htm#1821551 http://www.rc-float-flying.rchomepag...instructor.htm

With all of the above against us, I don't know how anyone can claim that there is still hope for our hobby/sport's future. Yet there are still folks stubbornly confident that our great hobby/sport is alive, well and kicking, therefore nothing to worry about.

fliers1
Old 12-24-2010, 02:40 PM
  #575  
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Default RE: Solutions for AMA's membership decline

Toys, Hobbys, and videogames will come & go like fashion,
but the number of folks eating chili had grown for like the past 500 years.
Between AMA brand chili, and the incorporation of the cupstackers into our hobby, I dont see how we can avoid becoming huge in a really short time

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