Solutions for AMA's membership decline
04-20-2018, 02:35 PM
#577
it has reached the status of what I call "dedicated niche" hobby. relatively small groups of dedicated people who for various reasons will continue to fly rc simply because they want to and the costs of regulatory memberships will not stop them until that same regulation physically stops the activity itself.....as long as the fees keep rolling in, the activity will continue,......it is really that simple. hopefully,.... it doesn't come to that end. I am 63 and just getting back into rc flying after being away from it since my late teens. I can now afford just about any regulatory fees that I might need to pay in order to enjoy this hobby and I want to be able to do it for several years. I am at the stage where the costs don't bother me when the alternative not being able to do the activity. the reality is that there isn't much one can do that doesn't incur some kind of permission oriented cost anymore,.....so be it,.... pay it, forget about it and get on with enjoying what you want to enjoy doing. you can waste a lot energy complaining about the cost of doing something you enjoy doing by bucking a system that will not be bucked, so just pay and play by the rules,....simple as that.... it is all that bucking and "solution searching" that will catalyze the decline in membership that will kill the activity.
04-23-2018, 07:50 AM
#578
My Feedback: (9)
The problem is all the cheep ARF’s. when I joined this hobby (1968) I needed someone to teach me to build, and fly which lead me to the local club and AMA. Today if I want to fly I buy an ARF that I (meaning a millennial )can asm in an hr or 2. If I don’t know how to fly I buy one with an onboard gyro go to the nearest ball field and adjust for minimum smoke.
Joe
Joe
04-23-2018, 05:36 PM
#579
I agree,....for me, building is as much a part of the hobby as flying,...maybe more as I am a builder and enjoy that part more than the flying to be honest. I have never been even so much as tempted to buy a ARF. doing that removes 1/2 the hobby in my eyes. I know I am in the minority about this in these instant gratification years that we now live in, but that is all right, I really don't want anything to do with ARF's. it will all change when everyone goes to the flying field and can't find their plane amongst all the other look a likes !. I always joke,..." you will be able to tell who lost track of where his plane was, because he will be the last guy leaving the field".
08-08-2018, 11:25 AM
#580
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kerrville,
TX
Posts: 2,127
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I agree,....for me, building is as much a part of the hobby as flying,...maybe more as I am a builder and enjoy that part more than the flying to be honest. I have never been even so much as tempted to buy a ARF. doing that removes 1/2 the hobby in my eyes. I know I am in the minority about this in these instant gratification years that we now live in, but that is all right, I really don't want anything to do with ARF's. it will all change when everyone goes to the flying field and can't find their plane amongst all the other look a likes !. I always joke,..." you will be able to tell who lost track of where his plane was, because he will be the last guy leaving the field".
I remember a guy who came to the field with his Cox plastic U/C model, said he couldn't get the engine to start. He had a 6V lantern battery with a glow clip lead with him. I asked if he'd hooked that battery to the glow head. When he said yes we sent him to the hobby shop for a new glow head & 1.5v screw-post battery. We told him to come back and we'd get it running for him. Never saw him again. I remember those little Cox stunters; they came with very clear instructions. I had one at NS Kodiak in 1958-59.
My point is that people who can get an ARF in the air understand instructions. The problem is that some just don't give a hoot about anything but their own gratification.
CR
08-11-2018, 03:21 AM
#581
Banned
I agree,....for me, building is as much a part of the hobby as flying,...maybe more as I am a builder and enjoy that part more than the flying to be honest. I have never been even so much as tempted to buy a ARF. doing that removes 1/2 the hobby in my eyes. I know I am in the minority about this in these instant gratification years that we now live in, but that is all right, I really don't want anything to do with ARF's. it will all change when everyone goes to the flying field and can't find their plane amongst all the other look a likes !. I always joke,..." you will be able to tell who lost track of where his plane was, because he will be the last guy leaving the field".
Ditto! Building is the main reason I do this hobby. Anyone (IMHO) can fly. But not everyone can build.
As for the decline of the hobby? I think it's changing rather than declining. Problem there is by changing some aspects of it are going to go away. Hence the proliferation of the ARFs, foamies, etc. That coupled with a couple of generations use to waiting no more than a minute for whatever it is they want, and no one cares to build anymore. Too boring!
08-14-2018, 07:39 AM
#582
oh, I donno,.....I was recently in Milwaukee (where I grew up) and drove around to the several spots I knew back when I was a teen that usually had someone flying and found no-one anywhere. and the fields that were designated flying fields with official municipal park signs, were all gone. the field that my club used fly large U-control on is now a strip mall and i'll bet the club is gone because the shop in West Allis, that was it's namesake is gone as well. it's changing alright,....it's getting smaller every day !. I also noticed that all the shops I went to back then, are gone and what they now call "hobby shop" sells baseball cards, football cards and fake flowers.
it's a depressing shame !.
it's a depressing shame !.
08-23-2018, 09:56 AM
#583
In the Puget Sound area north of downtown Seattle, we used to have three or four MAJOR hobby shops and several smaller ones. Of the major shops:
One had the owner sell out so he could retire and the new owner shut it down a few years later, claiming the staff was robbing him blind.
One had the owner retire and shut down after he was effectively priced out of his location after over 25years
One went bankrupt after he tried to bring in new, high tech simulators to be a draw for new customers.
As for the smaller shops, many have been pretty much shutting down due to lack of business or owners wanting to get out of the industry. AFIIK, there are three Hobby Town USAs, one general hobby shop, one hobby shop that is pretty much plastics and trains, one that is nothing but trains and one that caters to the car crowd left. I would love to have a shop like the local Hobby Bench chain in Phoenix. THAT PLACE WAS A DREAM!!!!!!!!!!!
One had the owner sell out so he could retire and the new owner shut it down a few years later, claiming the staff was robbing him blind.
One had the owner retire and shut down after he was effectively priced out of his location after over 25years
One went bankrupt after he tried to bring in new, high tech simulators to be a draw for new customers.
As for the smaller shops, many have been pretty much shutting down due to lack of business or owners wanting to get out of the industry. AFIIK, there are three Hobby Town USAs, one general hobby shop, one hobby shop that is pretty much plastics and trains, one that is nothing but trains and one that caters to the car crowd left. I would love to have a shop like the local Hobby Bench chain in Phoenix. THAT PLACE WAS A DREAM!!!!!!!!!!!
08-25-2018, 05:46 AM
#584
Banned
Mail order and the Internet have greatly reduced the 'need' for the brick and mortar mom and pop hobby shops. People who picked up a phone (or logged in) rather than go down to the "Hobby Shop" are responsible for the demise.
Oh they all have an excuse for doing it. Convenience and saving money are the two most popular. But the fact of the matter is, those who bailed on the local Hobby Shop are responsible for what we have today. And I'll wager that today that includes pretty much all of us.
Oh they all have an excuse for doing it. Convenience and saving money are the two most popular. But the fact of the matter is, those who bailed on the local Hobby Shop are responsible for what we have today. And I'll wager that today that includes pretty much all of us.
08-26-2018, 06:02 AM
#586
unfortunately,.... to an extent,.... you are right on the button !. it has gone on long enough now that it is a perpetual engine, feeding itself and starving itself, at the same time. where I lve I am forced to use the internet stores or drive hours to buy anything r/c flying related and I hate it. I just don't understand how people have become so complacent in the idea that you are very likely to go to the flying field and see several other guys all with identical planes. kids are growing up learning to accept that mindset in all aspects of their lives. I have always strived to be the person with something different than all the rest,.....building allows people to be that way.
08-30-2018, 04:18 AM
#587
Banned
It's funny. Look at this thread, been going for 8 years now. And this isn't the only one nor is this the only place such is being discussed. And yet, in Muncie it's business as usual. What's being accomplished?
08-30-2018, 07:45 AM
#588
- The bloated staff is showing up and collecting their unearned paycheck every week
- The EC is still pushing personal agendas that will cost into the millions of dollars for no real return
- The legal staff is still claiming to be winning against the FAA and Congress, when their not
- The treasury is still getting smaller and smaller due to all the above and the EC still can't see they are in trouble
08-31-2018, 04:07 AM
#589
Banned
And yet it amazes me how the pundits continue to feed at the AMA trough.
Well, as the saying goes: "You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
Well, as the saying goes: "You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
08-31-2018, 10:24 AM
#590
It amazes me how the non AMA group can’t seem to think they can get their point across without stooping to name calling.
I enjoy my hobby differently then you or Franklin. I attend events, up to 12 per year on average. These include fun fly events, pylon races, pattern contests, soaring contests and Giant scale events. All of which require AMA membership. If I were to join the witch hunt along with you my enjoyment of the hobby would cease. Maybe before you start throwing stones you should consider that we all have different requirements in how we enjoy the hobby.
I enjoy my hobby differently then you or Franklin. I attend events, up to 12 per year on average. These include fun fly events, pylon races, pattern contests, soaring contests and Giant scale events. All of which require AMA membership. If I were to join the witch hunt along with you my enjoyment of the hobby would cease. Maybe before you start throwing stones you should consider that we all have different requirements in how we enjoy the hobby.
08-31-2018, 11:13 AM
#591
It amazes me how the non AMA group can’t seem to think they can get their point across without stooping to name calling.
I enjoy my hobby differently then you or Franklin. I attend events, up to 12 per year on average. These include fun fly events, pylon races, pattern contests, soaring contests and Giant scale events. All of which require AMA membership. If I were to join the witch hunt along with you my enjoyment of the hobby would cease. Maybe before you start throwing stones you should consider that we all have different requirements in how we enjoy the hobby.
I enjoy my hobby differently then you or Franklin. I attend events, up to 12 per year on average. These include fun fly events, pylon races, pattern contests, soaring contests and Giant scale events. All of which require AMA membership. If I were to join the witch hunt along with you my enjoyment of the hobby would cease. Maybe before you start throwing stones you should consider that we all have different requirements in how we enjoy the hobby.
08-31-2018, 03:26 PM
#593
It amazes me how the non AMA group can’t seem to think they can get their point across without stooping to name calling.
I enjoy my hobby differently then you or Franklin. I attend events, up to 12 per year on average. These include fun fly events, pylon races, pattern contests, soaring contests and Giant scale events. All of which require AMA membership. If I were to join the witch hunt along with you my enjoyment of the hobby would cease. Maybe before you start throwing stones you should consider that we all have different requirements in how we enjoy the hobby.
I enjoy my hobby differently then you or Franklin. I attend events, up to 12 per year on average. These include fun fly events, pylon races, pattern contests, soaring contests and Giant scale events. All of which require AMA membership. If I were to join the witch hunt along with you my enjoyment of the hobby would cease. Maybe before you start throwing stones you should consider that we all have different requirements in how we enjoy the hobby.
Now, with that said, where you and I do differ is what we expect from those that run the organization. As I said in an earlier post, NAMBA runs with a staff of three national officers and 20 district VPs. All but one, that being the national general secretary are elected and NONE GET PAID!!!!! The only operating costs the national officers have are supplies and bills incurred by the general secretary, for which he pays out of pocket and gets reimbursed at the next meeting. Anything he does that those at the meeting feel was unneeded, he doesn't get paid for. That being the case, NAMBA pays less than a $5000 per year to operate, all the while having well over 1000 members. When you look at it, that means each member only pays around $5 to the organization for operational costs. The rest of our dues go to pay for our insurance which, for the wife and I, runs around $80 for the year. That means the wife and I are fully insured and able to run at 23 local races, hundreds of district races across the country as well as a floating national event for $60 less than it costs to be in the AMA. What we don't have is:
1) A museum
2) A retail department
3) A headquarters building
4) A home pond(airfield)
5) A hired and paid staff to maintain and operate these money pits.
The only thing we do have is a newsletter that is sent out a few times a year, as well as being posted on line, not unlike the one published by the AMA.
The clubs all operate independently so they must get the sites they race at themselves(in my club's case, that means 6 different locations and 6 different offices that operate these sites), cover any operating costs incurred and get members to actually run the events. I personally have been an official at several events this season and still have the sunburns from one three weeks ago to show for it.
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 08-31-2018 at 03:37 PM.
09-02-2018, 05:16 AM
#594
Banned
It amazes me how the non AMA group can’t seem to think they can get their point across without stooping to name calling.
I enjoy my hobby differently then you or Franklin. I attend events, up to 12 per year on average. These include fun fly events, pylon races, pattern contests, soaring contests and Giant scale events. All of which require AMA membership. If I were to join the witch hunt along with you my enjoyment of the hobby would cease. Maybe before you start throwing stones you should consider that we all have different requirements in how we enjoy the hobby.
I enjoy my hobby differently then you or Franklin. I attend events, up to 12 per year on average. These include fun fly events, pylon races, pattern contests, soaring contests and Giant scale events. All of which require AMA membership. If I were to join the witch hunt along with you my enjoyment of the hobby would cease. Maybe before you start throwing stones you should consider that we all have different requirements in how we enjoy the hobby.
I don't give two hoots in heck what you fly. But I do care that you do it safely and responsibly. Because how you fly becomes a reflection on all of us in the hobby. It leaves an impression with those who observe you that is then transferred to all of us. And quite frankly I am pretty fed up with the crowd who thinks this activity is a right. And thinks they can fly however, whenever and wherever they feel like it.
And BTW, a military career enabled me to belong to a number of clubs. I am a past President of two AMA clubs and held various positions in others. I've not only attended and participated in but organized various events such as fun flies, international RC demos, mall shows and the like. I didn't leave the AMA. The AMA abandoned me and my last club. So be it!
Last edited by Appowner; 09-02-2018 at 05:38 AM.
09-02-2018, 06:49 AM
#595
Mail order and the Internet have greatly reduced the 'need' for the brick and mortar mom and pop hobby shops. People who picked up a phone (or logged in) rather than go down to the "Hobby Shop" are responsible for the demise.
Oh they all have an excuse for doing it. Convenience and saving money are the two most popular. But the fact of the matter is, those who bailed on the local Hobby Shop are responsible for what we have today. And I'll wager that today that includes pretty much all of us.
Oh they all have an excuse for doing it. Convenience and saving money are the two most popular. But the fact of the matter is, those who bailed on the local Hobby Shop are responsible for what we have today. And I'll wager that today that includes pretty much all of us.
09-02-2018, 07:23 AM
#596
Thread Starter
For small clubs, with a half dozen or so members, for all intents and purposes, as they see it, there is no solution.
For large clubs with many veteran fliers, too many feel there is no problem, therefore no need for a solution.
In other words, if it aint broke, don't fix it.
For large clubs with many veteran fliers, too many feel there is no problem, therefore no need for a solution.
In other words, if it aint broke, don't fix it.
09-02-2018, 10:08 AM
#597
Ah yes! A retreat to the moral high ground and all that implies.
I don't give two hoots in heck what you fly. But I do care that you do it safely and responsibly. Because how you fly becomes a reflection on all of us in the hobby. It leaves an impression with those who observe you that is then transferred to all of us. And quite frankly I am pretty fed up with the crowd who thinks this activity is a right. And thinks they can fly however, whenever and wherever they feel like it.
And BTW, a military career enabled me to belong to a number of clubs. I am a past President of two AMA clubs and held various positions in others. I've not only attended and participated in but organized various events such as fun flies, international RC demos, mall shows and the like. I didn't leave the AMA. The AMA abandoned me and my last club. So be it!
I don't give two hoots in heck what you fly. But I do care that you do it safely and responsibly. Because how you fly becomes a reflection on all of us in the hobby. It leaves an impression with those who observe you that is then transferred to all of us. And quite frankly I am pretty fed up with the crowd who thinks this activity is a right. And thinks they can fly however, whenever and wherever they feel like it.
And BTW, a military career enabled me to belong to a number of clubs. I am a past President of two AMA clubs and held various positions in others. I've not only attended and participated in but organized various events such as fun flies, international RC demos, mall shows and the like. I didn't leave the AMA. The AMA abandoned me and my last club. So be it!
With that said, lets back up and take a look at your first two sentences. Why do you feel the need to show that level of aggression when replying to a post? Is it an effort to minimize my activities and thus minimizing the need for AMA? That's the impression you leave me with. Do you show aggression to everyone who offers a different opinion the you? Could it be that I have the means to enjoy my hobby in this fashion and you don't ?
Regardless of that, if we remain devided then nothing is going to change. Note that not once have I defended the AMA, it simply makes sense to me to support them which IMO gives me a voice with them that helps grease the wheels of change, makes them stronger to defend our privilege to fly. Without supporting the organization you have no power to help mold the organization into what you want it to be. It's like yelling at your kids to clean their room and then not supplying them with cleaning supplies.
09-02-2018, 03:30 PM
#598
Banned
Perhaps you should care what not only I fly and participate in but we should all care about one another, isn't that the foundation of what the hobby is supposed to be about? On RCG one of Franklin's supporters ( HGHOST ) on several occasions said he has no need for the AMA and that he did not even need to acknowledge them as a CBO as he flew safely. Then I discovered a video that he posted showing him flying over houses and adjacent to a freeway. I posted the video link onto the thread. It took less then an hour for him to go into his YouTube account and delete the video. His defense was he had permission from the home owners and someone connected to the freeway system. People whom had no authority to grant him such permission. That's the sort of thing the hobby can do without!
With that said, lets back up and take a look at your first two sentences. Why do you feel the need to show that level of aggression when replying to a post? Is it an effort to minimize my activities and thus minimizing the need for AMA? That's the impression you leave me with. Do you show aggression to everyone who offers a different opinion the you? Could it be that I have the means to enjoy my hobby in this fashion and you don't ?
Regardless of that, if we remain devided then nothing is going to change. Note that not once have I defended the AMA, it simply makes sense to me to support them which IMO gives me a voice with them that helps grease the wheels of change, makes them stronger to defend our privilege to fly. Without supporting the organization you have no power to help mold the organization into what you want it to be. It's like yelling at your kids to clean their room and then not supplying them with cleaning supplies.
09-02-2018, 04:18 PM
#599
I didn’t bother with the remainder of the paragraph simply because it seemed to imply you have somehow drawn an incorrect conclusion that I fly in an unsafe manner. Wasn’t worth my time to respond.
Confrontational? I’m not the one with the aggressive tone.
Confrontational? I’m not the one with the aggressive tone.
09-02-2018, 04:46 PM
#600
Banned
Ah! So you're the type who reads the first page of a book and then writes a report on it. I see now!
Just FYI, a single sentence, especially when removed from the paragraph it is in, does not convey a complete thought. It needs the rest of the paragraph to fill in details. You want to make me out as some angry individual. When in reality, you're simply looking for a fight. Have a nice time with that!
