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-   -   Model airplanes over NYC bad idea. (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ama-discussions-74/10937457-model-airplanes-over-nyc-bad-idea.html)

skyblue 01-31-2012 04:12 PM

Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 
Just came on the news today 1/31/12 movie promoters uses model airplanes which resemble men to announce the new movie Chronical. The pilots all AMA members were recruited to fly these planes around NYC. I'm really discusted by this stunt and wish homeland security would throw the whole bunch in jail. AMA members do not need this kind of attention to be drawn to our hobby. We are already laddened with enough restrictions from our regulated flying sites. If the general public deside they would like to mimic this foolhardy stunt we might see the end to our hobby as we know and enjoy it.

cj_rumley 01-31-2012 04:59 PM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 
Fun stuff............no animals were harmed in the making of this vid clip.

Where's the beef? ..........or are you just mocking the wet blankets that are bound to whine ..........

Michael R. 02-01-2012 06:31 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 
I've seen the video you're talking about but I seemed to miss the part where they fly over New York city.

See for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcDN409ZBv4

They appear to be flying from a wide open park over a river with the city buildings in the distant background. Even the footage showing the ground shows the public well within safety. They are well under 400 feet in altitude and had ground crew numbers large enough to serve as safety spotters. Did they do everything right? Did they get the proper permits and notify all the FBOs in the vicinity? I hope that they did.

The video is to me a welcome promotion for the RC hobby.

littlecrankshaf 02-01-2012 06:45 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael R.

The idea, is to have fun!?
+1000


Finally...someone gets it!

Please stick around...you are very much needed here!

Michael R. 02-01-2012 07:17 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 
Thank you!

Glad to help where I can.

Sport_Pilot 02-01-2012 07:22 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: cj_rumley

Fun stuff............no animals were harmed in the making of this vid clip.

Where's the beef? ..........or are you just mocking the wet blankets that are bound to whine ..........


The models were well below the restricted area, and appeared to be below 400 feet. I think he is a wet blanket.

Silent-AV8R 02-01-2012 07:27 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael R.
Did they get the proper permits and notify all the FBOs in the vicinity? I hope that they did.

The video is to me a welcome promotion for the RC hobby.

Not sure there is any requirement to notify FBOs.

This was done for a commercial enterprise and according to the FAA they needed a Special Airworthiness Certificate to do it legally. I doubt the FAA will do anything about this and I doubt anyone who sees it will relate it to our hobby.

I've seen these things in banner ads on some sites. Seem cool and fun.

Sport_Pilot 02-01-2012 07:53 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R


Quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael R.
Did they get the proper permits and notify all the FBOs in the vicinity? I hope that they did.

The video is to me a welcome promotion for the RC hobby.

Not sure there is any requirement to notify FBOs.

This was done for a commercial enterprise and according to the FAA they needed a Special Airworthiness Certificate to do it legally. I doubt the FAA will do anything about this and I doubt anyone who sees it will relate it to our hobby.

I've seen these things in banner ads on some sites. Seem cool and fun.
This is not commercial. The planes did not take cargo and did not take pictures. Instead they were paid to take pictures of the planes. Just as it is legal for a private pilot to take money to transport himself or report what he sees from the air, but not legal for him to take pictures from the air.

Michael R. 02-01-2012 07:55 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 
RC Super Hero: http://www.rcsuperhero.com/

Silent-AV8R 02-01-2012 08:15 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot


This is not commercial. The planes did not take cargo and did not take pictures. Instead they were paid to take pictures of the planes. Just as it is legal for a private pilot to take money to transport himself or report what he sees from the air, but not legal for him to take pictures from the air.

If they guys doing the flying were compensated then it is a commercial enterprise. In addition, it was done in the furtherance of a commercial activity, promoting a movie. You do not have to carry cargo or take pictures to be classified as a commercial activity. For instance, banner towing carries no cargo, passengers or takes pictures, but it is still considered a commercial activity.

Michael R. 02-01-2012 08:28 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 
I've been kicked out of a public park for taking pictures of my airplane there. And I had no intention of even flying and really didn't know the local laws the way I should have. According to the park ranger with the very big badge; because the photos were intended for publication, my intentions were therefore commercial, and I needed to file the proper permit/s. I'm sure that proof of insurance would have been required also.

Sport_Pilot 02-01-2012 08:32 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 
Quote:

If they guys doing the flying were compensated then it is a commercial enterprise.
That has never been their definition of commercialit is rather to carry passengers, or goods for hire. Some parts extend it to services, but the service must be directly tied to the flying of the aircraft. This is directly tied to a video of the aircraft and is not commercial.

Sport_Pilot 02-01-2012 08:33 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 
Quote:

According to the park ranger with the very big badge; because the photos were intended for publication, my intentions were therefore commercial, and I needed to file the proper permit/s. I'm sure that proof of insurance would have been required also. <span class="info"></span>

We are talking about what the FAA considers commercial, not what your local park considers commercial.

Silent-AV8R 02-01-2012 08:59 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Deleted by me.

AugerDawger 02-01-2012 09:02 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: skyblue

The pilots all AMA members were recruited to fly these planes around NYC. I'm really discusted by this stunt and wish homeland security would throw the whole bunch in jail.
Da Comrade. Da.

crustychief 02-01-2012 09:22 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 
It looks like the quad copter was tethered. I am going to call safe.


Silent-AV8R 02-01-2012 09:28 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Quote:

According to the park ranger with the very big badge; because the photos were intended for publication, my intentions were therefore commercial, and I needed to file the proper permit/s. I'm sure that proof of insurance would have been required also. <span class=''info''></span>

We are talking about what the FAA considers commercial, not what your local park considers commercial.

To be more precise, we are talking about the types of sUAS operations permitted by the FAA. Recreational/Civil/Public Agency. If this was done for any type of use other than recreational then they needed to either have a Special Airworthiness Certificate or a COA. Since they are clearly not a public agency operation that eliminates the COA. Is your position that this was purely recreational and the camera crew jut happened upon the three guys flying ?

rgburrill 02-01-2012 11:18 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 
As I understand it permits were proscessed, hours of test flying was done in Long Island and all was done with permission. It has nothing to do with having fun, guys. Commercial use, flying over the city, etc, all have to be approved! And as far as I know it was.

rgburrill 02-01-2012 11:22 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Quote:

If they guys doing the flying were compensated then it is a commercial enterprise.
That has never been their definition of commercialit is rather to carry passengers, or goods for hire. Some parts extend it to services, but the service must be directly tied to the flying of the aircraft. This is directly tied to a video of the aircraft and is not commercial.
You are very wrong - for AMA and the FAA commercial is making money. That meakes selling photos, doing real estate ads, and doing movie scenes.

Sport_Pilot 02-01-2012 11:23 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 


It has to be approved, or it does if they are flying in restricted airspace, and they probably needed permission from the park.  But it does not make it a commercial flight per the FAA.  They have said that promotion does not make the RC commercial requiring an SAC or COA.  Nor is getting paid to train, nor is getting paid to test RC models.</p>

Sport_Pilot 02-01-2012 11:28 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: rgburrill


Quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Quote:

If they guys doing the flying were compensated then it is a commercial enterprise.
That has never been their definition of commercialit is rather to carry passengers, or goods for hire. Some parts extend it to services, but the service must be directly tied to the flying of the aircraft. This is directly tied to a video of the aircraft and is not commercial.
You are very wrong - for AMA and the FAA commercial is making money. That meakes selling photos, doing real estate ads, and doing movie scenes.
.

Selling photo's, and real estate, yes. Movie scenes perhaps not sure about that one, but this was promotion of a hobby and the FAA has said you can get paid to do promotions without triggering sUAS regulations.

BTW commercial goes back to the constitution, under regulating interstate commerce. So prior court rulings on full scale do count and in no way can this be interstate, only its proximity to interstate commerce routes makes this relevent..

cj_rumley 02-01-2012 11:38 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 
Andrew Jesky is flying commercially every time he takes off, according to some folks.   I wonder if he has fun doing it......

speedracerntrixie 02-01-2012 11:38 AM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 
I guess I just don't understand what the big deal is. They were promoting a movie and it all seemed like positive exposure to the general public. Between '95 and 2005, I flew blimps up to 28' in length for 2 sports teams and in 2000 a country band. I traveled with the band eventually flying thier blimp in 83 different locations. To the best of my knowledge, no special arrangements or paperworkwere required.

cj_rumley 02-01-2012 12:14 PM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael R.

I've been kicked out of a public park for taking pictures of my airplane there. And I had no intention of even flying and really didn't know the local laws the way I should have. According to the park ranger with the very big badge; because the photos were intended for publication, my intentions were therefore commercial, and I needed to file the proper permit/s. I'm sure that proof of insurance would have been required also.
I remember when that happened to tailskid, except that it was the Deputy Fife type at an AMAchartered club site that hassled him. It's all about poultry droppings of course. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../msn/47_47.gif

Sport_Pilot 02-01-2012 12:17 PM

RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: cj_rumley

Andrew Jesky is flying commercially every time he takes off, according to some folks. I wonder if he has fun doing it......

Getting paid for RC air shows or competitive flying is also not commercial flying. He is not hiring his plane out when he does this. There used to be a document on the FAA site that explained cvommercial activities, but I can not find it right now.


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