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-   -   AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ama-discussions-74/11400197-ama-emails-drones-right-fly.html)

804 02-19-2013 07:39 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 
Heck, I'm constantly worried some fed is gonna try to set me up on a bum terrorist rap.
I mean, if it could happen to someone selling cellphone IEDs to FBI undercover ops.,
it could happen to anyone.[X(]

littlecrankshaf 02-19-2013 08:23 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: 804

Heck, I'm constantly worried some fed is gonna try to set me up on a bum terrorist rap.
I mean, if it could happen to someone selling cellphone IEDs to FBI undercover ops.,
it could happen to anyone.[X(]
Yep...cell phones should be outlawed before this kind of thing gets out of hand!!!

Luchnia 02-20-2013 03:56 AM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf



ORIGINAL: 804

Heck, I'm constantly worried some fed is gonna try to set me up on a bum terrorist rap.
I mean, if it could happen to someone selling cellphone IEDs to FBI undercover ops.,
it could happen to anyone.[X(]
Yep...cell phones should be outlawed before this kind of thing gets out of hand!!!
:D :D :D

HoundDog 02-20-2013 06:34 AM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 
<h1>U.S. Troops Will Soon Get Tiny Kamikaze Drone</h1>
This is a little more than drone servalence

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011...amikaze-drone/

bradpaul 02-20-2013 07:16 AM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 
More fuel to the fire............. killer micro drones.<div>
</div><div><span style="font-family: '.HelveticaNeueUI'; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281403/U-S-Air-Force-developing-terrifying-swarms-tiny-unmanned-drones-hover-crawl-kill-targets.html</span></div>

littlecrankshaf 02-20-2013 08:51 AM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: bradpaul

More fuel to the fire............. killer micro drones.<div>
</div><div><span style=''font-family: '.HelveticaNeueUI'; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ''>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281403/U-S-Air-Force-developing-terrifying-swarms-tiny-unmanned-drones-hover-crawl-kill-targets.html</span></div>
Although interesting, nothing really new and the video in that link falls short of what is capable. Over thirty years ago I told people about how this type of technology would be a game changer...Of course most people couldn't get their mind around the concept and could only argue or laugh...and we haven't seen anything yet compared to what's coming...

joebahl 02-20-2013 09:20 AM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf



ORIGINAL: bradpaul

More fuel to the fire............. killer micro drones.<div>
</div><div><span style=''font-family: '.HelveticaNeueUI'; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ''>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281403/U-S-Air-Force-developing-terrifying-swarms-tiny-unmanned-drones-hover-crawl-kill-targets.html</span></div>
Although interesting, nothing really new and the video in that link falls short of what is capable. Over thirty years ago I told people about how this type of technology would be a game changer...Of course most people couldn't get their mind around the concept and could only argue or laugh...and we haven't seen anything yet compared to what's coming...
I dont think we have seen anything of whats coming for these to be used for the wrong thing yet either! joe

littlecrankshaf 02-20-2013 09:41 AM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: joebahl



ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf



ORIGINAL: bradpaul

More fuel to the fire............. killer micro drones.<div>
</div><div><span style=''font-family: '.HelveticaNeueUI'; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ''>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281403/U-S-Air-Force-developing-terrifying-swarms-tiny-unmanned-drones-hover-crawl-kill-targets.html</span></div>
Although interesting, nothing really new and the video in that link falls short of what is capable. Over thirty years ago I told people about how this type of technology would be a game changer...Of course most people couldn't get their mind around the concept and could only argue or laugh...and we haven't seen anything yet compared to what's coming...
I dont think we have seen anything of whats coming for these to be used for the wrong thing yet either! joe

Yea, but it won't be by any of us hobbyists and that is the important thing to keep in mind!!!

joebahl 02-20-2013 09:58 AM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf



ORIGINAL: joebahl



ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf



ORIGINAL: bradpaul

More fuel to the fire............. killer micro drones.<div>
</div><div><span style=''font-family: '.HelveticaNeueUI'; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ''>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281403/U-S-Air-Force-developing-terrifying-swarms-tiny-unmanned-drones-hover-crawl-kill-targets.html</span></div>
Although interesting, nothing really new and the video in that link falls short of what is capable. Over thirty years ago I told people about how this type of technology would be a game changer...Of course most people couldn't get their mind around the concept and could only argue or laugh...and we haven't seen anything yet compared to what's coming...
I dont think we have seen anything of whats coming for these to be used for the wrong thing yet either! joe

Yea, but it won't be by any of us hobbyists and that is the important thing to keep in mind!!! I AGREE :D joe

cj_rumley 02-20-2013 10:29 AM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 
redact - OT and political

joebahl 02-20-2013 02:34 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 
Here is a noob thats flying his over 700 ft naaaaaa nothing could go wrong here ! http://vimeo.com/52481958

cj_rumley 02-20-2013 03:57 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: joebahl

Here is a noob thats flying his over 700 ft naaaaaa nothing could go wrong here ! http://vimeo.com/52481958
OMG! AMA wouldn't allow him to fly it over 400 ft (would they?) just like the authorization from FAA to fly model aircraft says.

joebahl 02-20-2013 05:08 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 
I dont know if he is a ama member or not but u-tube is full of them trying to fly further and higher than the last one . It wont be very long before FAA starts to spanky spanky . :D BTW If it hits a full size aircraft and films it ,do you think the FAA will send a copy and a thank you note to the AMA. :Djoe

littlecrankshaf 02-20-2013 05:26 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: joebahl

I dont know if he is a ama member or not but u-tube is full of them trying to fly further and higher than the last one . It wont be very long before FAA starts to spanky spanky . :D joe
That's FAA's choice and while you might be right, with the ever increasing chances of near future FAA cuts I doubt much will ever be done... The FAA is super busy maintaining its wasteful or redundant oversights as it is now...

joebahl 02-20-2013 06:02 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf



ORIGINAL: joebahl

I dont know if he is a ama member or not but u-tube is full of them trying to fly further and higher than the last one . It wont be very long before FAA starts to spanky spanky . :D joe
That's FAA's choice and while you might be right, with the ever increasing chances of near future FAA cuts I doubt much will ever be done... The FAA is super busy maintaining its wasteful or redundant oversights as it is now...
I guess at alot of stuff ,at my job building small custom homes and i have built CVS stores / and night clubs / strip malls and there is alot of trying to forsee problems before they happen. I think the ones that are just out flying with no AMA rules are going to cause problems . Weather the man trys to blame the ama or not is hard to figure out with the nuts in our government now . joe

cj_rumley 02-20-2013 06:17 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: joebahl

I dont know if he is a ama member or not but u-tube is full of them trying to fly further and higher than the last one . It wont be very long before FAA starts to spanky spanky . :D BTW If it hits a full size aircraft and films it ,do you think the FAA will send a copy and a thank you note to the AMA. :Djoe
Dunno how FAA would react.

Maybe they would inquire as to why the full size aircraft was at 700' ...........the camera shows a populated area below and capture of the models flight profile via the OSD data downlinked with the video (common part of many FPV packages) is proof of the altitude where the hypothetical incident occurred.

Model was a bit more than 1/2 mile away when the r/c link failed and rx went into failsafe, but Return To Home (RTH on the screen) capability brought the model back safely. Can yours do that? At 1/2 m. it would still have been within unaided visual range, even with my sub-par eyes.

What's wrong with this flight except for the altitude question? How high would AMA rules allow him to fly?

cfircav8r 02-20-2013 06:18 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 
I don't think the FAA will be the problem as much as local government. Any city can write ordinances against FPV, or model aircraft for that matter, within their city limits.

joebahl 02-20-2013 06:48 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: cj_rumley



ORIGINAL: joebahl

I dont know if he is a ama member or not but u-tube is full of them trying to fly further and higher than the last one . It wont be very long before FAA starts to spanky spanky . :D BTW If it hits a full size aircraft and films it ,do you think the FAA will send a copy and a thank you note to the AMA. :Djoe
Dunno how FAA would react.

Maybe they would inquire as to why the full size aircraft was at 700' ...........the camera shows a populated area below and capture of the models flight profile via the OSD data downlinked with the video (common part of many FPV packages) is proof of the altitude where the hypothetical incident occurred.

Model was a bit more than 1/2 mile away when the r/c link failed and rx went into failsafe, but Return To Home (RTH on the screen) capability brought the model back safely. Can yours do that? At 1/2 m. it would still have been within unaided visual range, even with my sub-par eyes.

What's wrong with this flight except for the altitude question? How high would AMA rules allow him to fly?
I think FAA has full size aircraft at 400 ft and above and rc at 300 and lower but i think its a close guess. joe

littlecrankshaf 02-20-2013 06:50 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: joebahl


I think the ones that are just out flying with no AMA rules are going to cause problems .

WOW!!! How do you come up with such stuff??? I would've guessed you knew that there have been people flying models ever since models have been flying without AMA... I was wrong... I guess you must feel model aviation will cease real soon, maybe tomorrow, since you now know the truth now.

HoundDog 02-20-2013 07:23 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 
<h3><font size="4">Paste this into Google Maps and see where that FPV plane was about </font>8 miles North of Asheville NC     35.683102  -82.540998   Latitude and Longitude are in the lower left and lower right of the screen<br type="_moz"/></h3>

cj_rumley 02-20-2013 07:52 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 





ORIGINAL: joebahl


I think FAA has full size aircraft at 400 ft and above and rc at 300 and lower but i think its a close guess. joe

I'm pretty sure (tho just from recall with due allowance for aging) the full scale aircraft should have been at a minimum of 1000' AGL. If so, the FPV pilot was applying common sense by allowing for a separation 300' and so being more conservative than FAA requires, a minimum separation between models and full-scale of 100' in the general case (not over areas that show signs of human activity). IOW min altitude for full scale is 500' and max for models 400' AGL.

FAA says models should not fly above 400' anywhere. AMA says they should be allowed to fly above 400' but does not say how much higher. It may be stated in AMA safety rules submitted to FAA last October, but we hoi polloi members are not privy to that. Reason for that stated here, an excerpt from minutes of AMA EC meeting Jan '03:


• Mathewson passed around a document that was put together by HQ staff. At the beginning of the year AMA presented its support materials in request for the FAA to recognize AMA as a Community Based Organization (CBO). That included the safety program that Council saw at the October 2012 meeting and another book that was an effort of R. Hanson’s team and the AMA Staff. Putting this book together turned into a 2-week project and Mathewson recognized Chris Savage for his working nights and weekends, including Christmas Eve and Christmas, so AMA could have the book to the FAA before the end of the year (2012). Once the book is finalized each Council member will receive a copy
• The ED commented on the membership numbers year-to-date; compared to last year we are down .8% in overall membership 2013 compared to 2012 YTD. HQ discovered an anomaly in District II that was believed to be a result of Super Storm Sandy. In comparison to national numbers (Open down .8%; Sr. Citizen up 1-2%), District II Open members were down 13%; Sr. Citizen down 1-2%. The ED and District II VP will investigate opportunities to reach out to those members
• The ED requested feedback on copyrighting AMA material. A ballpark cost for copyrighting the two books (safety program and support material book presented to FAA) would be less than $500 each. Making minor changes to the copyrighted books would not require application for a new copyright. It was suggested that AMA copyright all of its’ PDF documents; these do not have to be ‘registered copyright’ but could contain a statement that AMA created the document and is the owner. The two books are now out of AMA’s control and it is important to get them copyrighted so other organizations can’t purport them as their own

MOTION I: Moved by E. Williams (II) and seconded by M. Radcliff (III) all documents in the CBO proposal will be registered for copyright. All other publically available AMA documents will be evaluated for the purpose of application of non-registered copyright.
MOTION passed unanimously
So, AMA Safety guidance is proprietary intellectual property and they can't tell us members what it is for fear of leaks to great unwashed.

The (presumed) non-AMA FPV flyer used common sense and came up a plan that would allow him to operate safely. The guy that needs AMA rules because he lacks common sense, and the rule makers seem to presume that is the norm, well............what can I say?.


joebahl 02-20-2013 08:43 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf



ORIGINAL: joebahl


I think the ones that are just out flying with no AMA rules are going to cause problems .

WOW!!! How do you come up with such stuff??? I would've guessed you knew that there have been people flying models ever since models have been flying without AMA... I was wrong... I guess you must feel model aviation will cease real soon, maybe tomorrow, since you now know the truth now.
Crankshaft , its a video someone else made flying their own DRONE at real aircraft altitudes .I found the video but i did not make it .If you dont believe it there are many more on u-tube just like it or worce. Do you believe in the moon landing videos and walk or are you one of thos who say it never happened.While you dont think it happened other's here do . Why do you go off the deep end over a small video ,it just might be because what i have been saying about people flying drones through this thread is looking like the truth. :D joe

HoundDog 02-20-2013 09:12 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 
<font size="4">The craft in the video never got within 100 feet of 700 <font size="4">AGL at 1:37 into the flight it hit 582 A<font size="4">GL and it's highest point 583 AGL<font size="4"> until 1:57 into the flight
<font size="4">
The Approach altitude for <font size="4">A<font size="4">sheville approaches </font></font></font></font></font></font>
</font><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font size="4">RNAV (GPS) RWY 1 or</font></font></font></font></font></font></font>
ILS or LOC RWY 1 have vectoring altitudes of 5000' msl about 2700' AGL. All VFR aircraft would/should not be below pattern altitude for Ashevill airport witch is 1000' AGL

I fly with GPS in 4 of my planes HiTec Aurora 9 and believe me 400 feet is not very high most pattern and Imac guys exceed that regularly, not to say what the Turbines do for Altitude.

srt10 02-20-2013 09:43 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf



ORIGINAL: joebahl


I think the ones that are just out flying with no AMA rules are going to cause problems .

WOW!!! How do you come up with such stuff??? I would've guessed you knew that there have been people flying models ever since models have been flying without AMA... I was wrong... I guess you must feel model aviation will cease real soon, maybe tomorrow, since you now know the truth now.
Awesome, I love it!
there is only two reasons I have AMA
one is to be in a local club, and two I get killer deals at my LHS with it
other than that, AMA really does nothing that I'm aware of for me [:-]
because unless I am at a AMA event I have no coverage

warningshot 02-20-2013 10:08 PM

RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
 


ORIGINAL: joebahl

Here is a noob thats flying his over 700 ft naaaaaa nothing could go wrong here ! http://vimeo.com/52481958
Where do you get 700feet? I saw only 583feet.


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