Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
I just recently found RCU so I apologize if this question has been asked before.
After browsing many of the threads here it seems that most people have are to one degree or another dissatisfied with the AMA. The only reason I am a member is because all of the fields I fly at require it and it is fun to say that I have a 2.5mil insurance policy. It is my understanding that the flying sites require membership because they get to defer liability of any damages occurred to that policy. Also that insurance isn't provided directly by the AMA but through them by Westchester Insurance. My question is, why isn't there some way to get this insurance directly from Westchester or even through another organization similar to the AMA that people wouldn't complain so much about? |
RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
ORIGINAL: coolbean I just recently found RCU so I apologize if this question has been asked before. After browsing many of the threads here it seems that most people have are to one degree or another dissatisfied with the AMA. The only reason I am a member is because all of the fields I fly at require it and it is fun to say that I have a 2.5mil insurance policy. It is my understanding that the flying sites require membership because they get to defer liability of any damages occurred to that policy. Also that insurance isn't provided directly by the AMA but through them by Westchester Insurance. My question is, why isn't there some way to get this insurance directly from Westchester or even through another organization similar to the AMA that people wouldn't complain so much about? Your reason for being a member is in concert with the vast majority of members - most join because they are compelled to as a condition of being granted use of the flying site, and liability insurance is cited as the reason for the arm-twisting. Given that, you've pretty much answered your own question as to why many people are dissatisfied to one degree or another. Your next question suggests an alternative, and that has been tried. Sport Flyers Assn tried and learned that AMA didn't want anybody else in their rice bowl, the hard way. Another more recent organization offered insurance only, if I'm not mistaken from the same company. It didn't charter clubs and require all club members to be members of the organization, and so didn't really compete for the lion's share of the market that AMA considers their own. They operated for a few years, with a clientele that seemed to be primarily composed of guys that felt a need for the insurance but had a place to fly outside the AMA-chartered club control, and some AMA members that wanted primary insurance they could not get from AMA. It was never more than a cottage industry and though the reasons for its folding about a year ago were not disclosed, I suspect it was because the owner's interest in flying outweighed his business interest. Don't let fact that people complain about the organization bother you. AMA isn't perfect, nor is it evil. Because it isn't perfect, some of the 'complaints' are intended as constructive criticism, at least in spirit. Because it isn't evil, you need to distinguish between criticism and "bashing." Not as easily done as said. Some people pay their 58 bucks and AMA becomes a patriotic or religious cause and any criticism is automatically dissed as heresy, aka bashing. Then there is the opposite fringe for whom AMA could never do anything right. Welcome to the discussion. There are some very thoughtful people that post here that aren't aligned with either of the fringes, and I think you'll enjoy the sharing of ideas that transpires when you learn who they are. Abel |
RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
I am a little different than you and the vast majority of AMA members in that I like to fly in competition. The AMA sanctions competitions, maintains records and has rules. I have to be a member or I cannot compete in AMA sanctioned competitions. The insurance is a nice thing and is very helpful in obtaining flying sites, etc. Also as you say is required to fly on many flying sites.
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RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
Very good explanation Abel. I can't think of anything to add to that. Pretty much sums it up!
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RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
Coolbean said: <<snip>>My question is, why isn't there some way to get this insurance directly from Westchester or even through another organization similar to the AMA that people wouldn't complain so much about? <<snip>> Please, specify. Thanks, Dave Olson |
RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
Abel,
Thank you for your quick and complete response. I would like to clarify that I don't have any problems with the AMA. I work in the banking industry and know a little bit about insurance. Offering someone a 2.5M policy for 58 bucks a year knowing nothing about them other than their name and address is pretty darn good. And the magazine isn't bad at all, I really do enjoy reading it or at least parts of it. However, if I had the option of saving a couple of bucks and forgoing the magazine, I would do exactly that. Scar, I know of no other organization as is obvious by my original post. The purpose of my questions was to find out why the AMA is the only offered and accepted organization of its type. |
RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
ORIGINAL: coolbean I know of no other organization as is obvious by my original post. The purpose of my questions was to find out why the AMA is the only offered and accepted organization of its type. If you want to make a small fortune selling model airplane insurance, start with a large one. Fortune, that is. |
RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
Thanks Able, you are right on point.
I get tired of the AMA Basher's who never present any thing constructive . IF YOU ARN'T PART OF THE SOLUTION YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM............. Most of the basher's fit this mold. |
RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
I have not been involved since late 80/s and recently am getting into R/C again so please refrain from bashing if I am wrong. The one thing about the AMA that really irritated me was the fact that you are buying this as insurance but in fact it is only a secondary ins. and they rely soley on your homeowners as a primary. So basically we are paying double for insurance!
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RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
Way to go ABEL, well done indeed
regards, Roby |
RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
Himark, that isn't quite right. We are paying for additional insurance beyond our homeowners. Insurance is something you buy hoping it never does you any good.:D
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RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
I would like to add that if your homeowners does not cover model flying, AMA becomes primary.
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RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
And don't forget that the AMA insurance program is only a part of what the AMA has been doing since they started in 1936. They have had commitees investigating and helping get approval for the various RC frequencies over the years. They have obtained sound level studies. They have a group that tries to provide assistance for obtaining and keeping flying fields. They are basically our agent with the NAA and FCC for ALL flying model categories. They have an Aviation based scholarship program. There is the new plan collection where they are trying to make available out-of-print model aircraft plans. They even have access to legal counsel. And through the NAA, they also represent our country internationaly through the connection with the FAI.
And, of course, there is the competition rule book to regulate the contest group. Believe it or not, the flying of model aircraft is also a sport, and few sports survive very long without the small portion that participates in the larger sized local, state, national and international competitions. |
RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
ORIGINAL: coolbean I just recently found RCU so I apologize if this question has been asked before. After browsing many of the threads here it seems that most people have are to one degree or another dissatisfied with the AMA. The only reason I am a member is because all of the fields I fly at require it and it is fun to say that I have a 2.5mil insurance policy. It is my understanding that the flying sites require membership because they get to defer liability of any damages occurred to that policy. Also that insurance isn't provided directly by the AMA but through them by Westchester Insurance. My question is, why isn't there some way to get this insurance directly from Westchester or even through another organization similar to the AMA that people wouldn't complain so much about? Most of your questions have been answered pretty well, however here is additional light on the subject. AMA is a charitable organization under the educational provisions of the Internal Revenue Service's IRC 501 (c) (3) regulations. That regulation prohibits such an organization from actually "selling" insurance, yet PROVIDING insurance to its members is allowed. Anyone can obtain insurance from a commercial company and such insurance is usually called an "Umbrella Liability" policy. Be expected to pay something like 6 times the amount of AMA dues for a comparable amount in $ value. My policy through USAA requires that I also have certain amounts of Liability Insurance as a Homeowner and Auto policies with USAA in order for them to write the umbrella policy. Yes USAA POLICIES DO COVER MODEL AVIATION so specifically declared in the policies. The best thing in my mind is that those that belong to AMA are in possession of the financial capability should they damage ME. Therefore I do not fly except with AMA Chartered Clubs and/or in Sanctioned events. |
RE: Why are we so dependant on the AMA?
I think the bulk of these AMA posts has more to do with clubs than the AMA. Just my thought from what I see.
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