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AMT AT 280 Thrust?

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Old 08-25-2012, 09:56 AM
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cbooth1979
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Default AMT AT 280 Thrust?

Hi,

I have a AMT AT 280 Pegusas turbine with a Gen 1 ECU. Im confused with the thrust rating of the engine though? Full throttle shows about 105-106,000 rpms and idles around 36,000. I was told that it was a 28lb engine but Ive read that some of the AT280's were 22lb engines. Anyone have any info on this? Thanks in advance! ( P.S. This engine is from the 1998-99 era)

-Carl
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:00 PM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

If I remember correctly that era AT280s were 28lb thrust motors. They were a collaborative effort with AMT USA and AMT Netherlands when they were based in West Virginia

solid motors, i've been running these tanks since 1998 when the first Mercury engines were introduced.

fuel 'em and fly 'em
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Old 08-30-2012, 06:11 AM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

I'm not the most knowledgeable person here... but like all engines.. they've gone though some evolution.

If it's a V1 (older) engine... and the max RPM's are only around 106k... then it probably is a 22~24Lb engine. The "Newer" 28lb thrust engines are running up to 117k. (and the new Netherlands version is up to 35 Lbs!! ) Since Turbines make thrust exponentially... 12K off max would be about 4~5lbs less thrust.

I have an early, V1 AT 180, and it's a great engine. Originally... It was supposed to be a 15 Lb thrust engine. BUT... a simple call to US Microjet with the serial number... and I found at it's last service... they did some upgrades, and they had it making 17.5Lbs of thrust. Knowing that... I'd contact US Microjet, and see if they have a history on it.

Just an FYI... originally, my engine was only supposed to be running 128k RPM's... but my ECU has been reprogrammed to run at 152K. (The factory has to change the RPM's)
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:58 AM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

Hi,

Thanks for the rsponse guys. Another thought I had was when I read the manual it says that full throttle is limited for at least 6 seconds. So if you want full power on takeoff than you need to hold it wide open for 6 sec. I had a data terminal hooked to it both times ive started it and I didnt see any readout on it of "max rpm set" or anything? Should I be able to see anything like that? Keep in mind this engine was bought new back in 98-99 and never ran till last week! It fired right up and ran great! Pretty impressive in my book.

-Carl
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:29 PM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

Carl:

Download the Ecu tools from the Amt site and see if you can view the MAX RPM setting for your 280, your manual may say it is a 22 pound engine, but the actual ECU MAX RPM may be set for 28 pounds ( 117 k rpms) I have a 28 pound engine that shows it's a 22 pounder on the manual....
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Old 08-30-2012, 04:30 PM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

You don't want to turn those older motors to 117k !!! 115 max... 115 wil give you about 28-30lbs. The newer Netherlands ( Purple Face Peggy ) at 117k is 35+.. But there were many internal changes made to achieve that. I had a older Netherlands Pegusus and Bennie upgraded to the HP at 117k. Not all of the old ones can be upgraded. There is a serial # cutoff as to which can be done. None of the USA engines can be upgraded to HP.. Bennie will not do it.


Good luck !!

Danno
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Old 08-30-2012, 04:32 PM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: cbooth1979

Hi,

Thanks for the rsponse guys. Another thought I had was when I read the manual it says that full throttle is limited for at least 6 seconds. So if you want full power on takeoff than you need to hold it wide open for 6 sec. I had a data terminal hooked to it both times ive started it and I didnt see any readout on it of ''max rpm set'' or anything? Should I be able to see anything like that? Keep in mind this engine was bought new back in 98-99 and never ran till last week! It fired right up and ran great! Pretty impressive in my book.

-Carl

You do want to run it up to full throttle before taxi out and you want to see the ETD say " Max RPM Set. You need to do that on every start.


Danno
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Old 08-30-2012, 06:46 PM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

Thanks for the help guys,

Thats what concerns me is that I do not see "max rpm set" on the data terminal. I have held it much longer than 6 seconds as well. I'll continue to keep an eye on it,..The engine spins over very nice by hand and feels nice and smooth so I cant see it as a bearing issue however it has been sitting for a long time. Maybe the EDT is not seeing the max rpm yet? If the ECU was set to an rpm higher than I am achieving would that be the cause of not seeing the readout?

Thanks again to all,

-Carl
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Old 08-30-2012, 10:14 PM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

What battery type/voltage are you using ???


Danno
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:59 AM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

ensure your fuel line isn't kinked or restricting flow to the engine. if it's not attaining max rpm, a likely source of the problem is the fuel pump. you can "break in" the fuel pump by running it directly from a battery pack and just letting it circulate fuel through it for a few minutes.

make a closed loop system into your fuel can, hook up a battery pack, 7.2-12v and let her run.

fuel 'em and fly 'em amigo. she may be a heavy gal but she'll provide hours upon hours of enjoyment..

good luck
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:07 AM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

Hi,

Im using a 3 cell lipo for the time being but I will probably change that out to a 11.1V duralite pack at some point.
Quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjetsaok

What battery type/voltage are you using ???


Danno
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:14 AM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

Hi,

I dont have any restrictions or kinks in the line to the engine aside from 4mm tubing a festo shut off valve and a festo fuel filter. Like I said, everything is really brand new its just sat for 12 years! I will try running in the pump as you said. Originally I was going to do this but everyone said AMT pumps are bullet proof and do not need to be run in so I didnt.

Thanks for your help!

-Carl
Quote:
ORIGINAL: yeahbaby

ensure your fuel line isn't kinked or restricting flow to the engine. if it's not attaining max rpm, a likely source of the problem is the fuel pump. you can "break in" the fuel pump by running it directly from a battery pack and just letting it circulate fuel through it for a few minutes.

make a closed loop system into your fuel can, hook up a battery pack, 7.2-12v and let her run.

fuel 'em and fly 'em amigo. she may be a heavy gal but she'll provide hours upon hours of enjoyment..

good luck
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:31 PM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

It doesn't hurt amigo especially since its been sitting for as long as it has. You can run an 11v pack no problem with these motors. Happy to help anytime.
Cheers
Buck

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Old 09-04-2012, 12:00 PM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

On the very early ECU's... it won't say "MAX RPM'S reached." (or what ever)

I made my own data terminal, and the ECU doesn't output any alternative code for that on my V1. The newer ECU's will.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:10 PM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

weird, I've got a 1998 and 2000 vintage Mercury and Pegasus (180 / 280) and they both show Max RPM set when the motor reaches the required parameter.

It's pretty rare but sometimes a weak fuel pump can be the culprit and although "running them in" doesn't always works, it does alleviate one source of the potential problems prior to boxing up the engine and sending it in for a check up.

I like the data box you built Dr Honda, nice work

cheers
buck
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:22 AM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

yes, if your engine is that old it is very likely a 23#/105k max rpm version MK.I

If you send it in to US MicroJet we can see how or what we could do to upgrade the engine.

What are you wanting to put it in ?

For example if you are just starting out I would suggest you can get a boomerang XL and it would fly it pretty good. We have had customers put 18# 180's on boomerang XL's and it can fly it but it takes alot of high throttle settings for extended periods.

Han designed the engines to have a max 15 sec. full power "bursts". Typically when this unit was sold originally it would fly most anything available and long durations of full power would blow your plane apart from higher speeds. Nowadays, the planes are of much better construction and can absorb higher thrust engines. Thus the evolution to the higher output designs/configurations.

I would however only put maybe up to a 7.2 volt batt on the pump to break it in as mentioned above, typically the pump will not see much more voltage during actual useage/flights.

The older pumps from Geraldo (JALB) are some of the best pumps ive used. Those pumps will typically out last 2-3 sets of engine bearings depending on useage. We still have some engines come in with the black plugs which dates them as quite old, and they still can get the job done.

Like i said, if u want to send it in we can give it a test run and see what we can do if you need more power/thrust.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:25 PM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: yeahbaby

weird, I've got a 1998 and 2000 vintage Mercury and Pegasus (180 / 280) and they both show Max RPM set when the motor reaches the required parameter.

It's pretty rare but sometimes a weak fuel pump can be the culprit and although ''running them in'' doesn't always works, it does alleviate one source of the potential problems prior to boxing up the engine and sending it in for a check up.

I like the data box you built Dr Honda, nice work

cheers
buck

Thanks.

You know............ I just thought of something..... Even though, there isn't any output code for "Max RPM" from the ECU. On my box... once "MAX" is set... I do get a MAX RPM voltage on my box. I guess I could add the code, internal of the box, so once it sees that voltage is set... it displays... "Ready for launch." (lol)


Even though, the data terminal isn't needed... it's nice to monitor the idle, and MAX pump voltages. If they start to drift... you know there is a problem starting. I wish Gasper would add that to his code. (for my Wren, and JC)






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Old 09-08-2012, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

Thanks for the reply,

Do you guys have any way of identifying the engine by serial #? The serial # on the motor is 121030 and on the ecu of course. I have a MK3 manual and it states 105k/22.5lbs as max and that is dated december of 1998. The engine has plenty of power for me I am just curious on the actual facts of the engine.

Thanks to all for the help!,

-Carl


quote]ORIGINAL: AMTdude

yes, if your engine is that old it is very likely a 23#/105k max rpm version MK.I

If you send it in to US MicroJet we can see how or what we could do to upgrade the engine.

What are you wanting to put it in ?

For example if you are just starting out I would suggest you can get a boomerang XL and it would fly it pretty good. We have had customers put 18# 180's on boomerang XL's and it can fly it but it takes alot of high throttle settings for extended periods.

Han designed the engines to have a max 15 sec. full power "bursts". Typically when this unit was sold originally it would fly most anything available and long durations of full power would blow your plane apart from higher speeds. Nowadays, the planes are of much better construction and can absorb higher thrust engines. Thus the evolution to the higher output designs/configurations.

I would however only put maybe up to a 7.2 volt batt on the pump to break it in as mentioned above, typically the pump will not see much more voltage during actual useage/flights.

The older pumps from Geraldo (JALB) are some of the best pumps ive used. Those pumps will typically out last 2-3 sets of engine bearings depending on useage. We still have some engines come in with the black plugs which dates them as quite old, and they still can get the job done.

Like i said, if u want to send it in we can give it a test run and see what we can do if you need more power/thrust.
[/quote]
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:37 PM
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Default RE: AMT AT 280 Thrust?

My original AMT Pegasus was set around 112000. AMT dude took it in, balanced and checked it over and raised the max RPM to 117,400.
This engine is wonderful and has unbelievable power, over 36 pounds now. I have been running it for a few years with no issues. I just installed it in my new EuroSport and can't wait for the maiden. These babies are almost bulletproof.
I have 2 180's, 1 Pegasus, and a new Olympus. Good motors!
Ron
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