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  1. #51

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    Hi Mercer
    I attached the Flap hinges to the wing today but they would not close properly at the trailing edge and stayed open a bit,
    I spent about 2 hours trying different things to close the gap up and found that by placing a thin piece of cardboard under all the 6 hinge points the trailing edge was almost completely closed. Was as good as the flap just sitting there before attached. Once a bit of servo pressure was on the horn then almost completely closed along the whole length.

    I am going to cut some plastic that is the same thickness and glue to the bottom of the hinges before screwing back on.

    I have also been counter sinking the screw holes on the hinges so the screws sit in to the hinge rather than sit on top of the hinge done 3 holes at present. But also thought about changing the screws to a flat base style rather than the taper the little brass screws have. Considering hex head servo screws and painting the same colour as the flaps hinges.

    Easier also to get that exact pressure and also easier to undo if ever need be.

    Will post a pic of the mod once I have finished.

  2. #52

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    Removed the Flap hinges today to drop some super glue in the holes. Did not number the which hinge was where and when put back on the Gap was even worse then before.I have taken them all off again and will have to start from scratch again. Bit of a pain but once sorted should not have to remove again.


    Mercer I also noticed U did not attach the long aerial? was there any particular reason?

  3. #53

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    I keep my flaps clamped when not using the plane and the gap in the trailing edge has reduced to about 2mm. I normally fly with the long aerial, but didn't screw it on when I took the photo. It is a good touch that it just screws on and off - it gets in the way when assembing the plane.

    I had 6 more flights on the weekend. On my second to last, I landed hard and bent the undercarraige back such that the wheel axles were aft of the leading edge of the wings. Out of interest, I tried another take off, but it threatened to tip once the tail lifted. I applied too much up elevator and it took to the air without anough speed. I had the dreaded 'butterfly effect' where the wings rocked badly until I got enough airspeed. It could have been a bad moment for someone with limited experience. I landed OK, but the plane tipped as I tried to slow it.

    The lesson for me is that, although mild mannered, it is still a war bird and will punish you if you are not careful or have some war bird  experience. The flaps (I'm using 45 degrees) are effective and will allow you to slow the plane to about 10km/hr for landing, but it is hard to avoid bounce atthis speed. 15km/hr is better. I find I must watch the wheels carefully (not the fuselage) to best judge my landings.

    I bent the undercarraige wires back and everything else is fine. One of my shrouds was torn badly and you are right to reinforce them. The roll bar mount between the pilots broke when I flipped it, but the pilots were OK. I've glued the pieces back together and stuck it back on. The oleos and wheel mounts are pretty tough and should be able to cope a fair amount of abuse.

  4. #54

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    I am impressed with your attention to detail. I too am finishing up my pt-19 from Hostetler plans.
    I recognize the full scale PT in your picture. It is here in Houston and a great flyer. I have been up in it several times. Great project...

  5. #55

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    Mercer
    Thanks for the flight reports much appreciated. Hope U have many more flights.

    Regards Greg

  6. #56

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    Hi Neuhausr
    Thanks for the complement. Am trying to make it look as good as a sport scale PT19 can.
    Still working on the flaps to get them sorted out.

    Will be happy when I can afford my motor so I can get the front end sorted.

    Would be great to be able to go up in the plane,
    Just to see one would be nice.

    Regards Greg

  7. #57

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    I am interested in this plane, I had the giant scale PT-19 from great Planes, but this looks much more scale like. What Engine are you thinking of putting in it? only I wondered if a DLE30 would be to much and heavy.

    Keep up the build info as it is good so far.

    well done.
    Any Landing is a good landing

  8. #58

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    I have an ASP 120 (4-stroke nitro) in mine (capacity about 20cc). This has more than adequate power and I think a DLE30 would be overkill. Any gas engine in the range 20-26cc would be fine.

    Having said this, you could probably get away with a DLE30. There is plenty of room in the cowl. I had to add quite a lot of nose weight (200gm) so I don't think the extra weight of the engine will be a problem.

  9. #59

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    well,I have scummed to it, I was not planning on getting a new plane until I had read the thread. But I today purchased the plane from Inwoods in the UK and I decided not to go with a DLE30 cc as I first thought but have now ordered a RCGF rear carb 26cc engine. As I want to go down the road of petrol especially as the price of glow fuel over here in the UK is expensive,and petrol is more economical on running. I am looking forward to it arriving now.
    Any Landing is a good landing

  10. #60

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    The RCGF 26cc should be fine. I have one in a 120 size Pilatus Porter (about 14 lb all up weight) where it is fine. My advice is to use an electric starter (any typical gloplug starter is fine), as it can take a while to get the fuel to the carby on the first start for the morning.

    I was a bit worried that the Pt-19 cowl might not provide enough cooling (in terms of the size of the exit vent), but it is fine. I was tempted to go the RCGF route (the engines are so cheap), but had a spare ASP 120 4-stroke sitting around and decided to use this.

    There are some photos of my stock plane if you click 'gallery' at the left bottom of this message.

    I has some more flights on the weekend which went well. As I previously noted, the flaps really slow it up for landing, but you want to try to land at about 10km/hr to reduce bouncing and bending back the undercarraige wire to which the oleos clamp. The wires are easy enough to bend back to their position aftera bad landing.

    This is a war plane, albiet a mild mannered one, so getting the CoG right is essential for maiden. The plan will tip stall and would be a bugger to recover from a spin if you don't catch it straight away. Set both aerollins about 4mm up from flush will minimise the risks of tip stall (it effectively raises the stall speed of the wing tip a little, so that it is closer to the root of the wing which allows a few km slower flight before stall, and also gives a more benign stall).

    Mine looks and sounds fantastic in the air with the 4-stroke ASP. Personally, I don't much like the sound of the RCGF. You can improve it by glueing some foam on the inside surfaces of the cowl (making sure not to interfere with the air flow), wrapping some 'Rescue Tape' around the muffler (this is a good quality silicon tape that withstands heat and muffles the sound somewhat) and using a decent wooden propellor.

  11. #61

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    Hey darjen38
    Congrats on getting the PT19.

    Mercer
    Interesting info on the ailerons. Just so I have it in my head. Both ailerons will be up about 4mm either side rather than inline with the wing.
    Never heard that before. Sounds interesting.

    Still slowly doing bits for mine. I am going to run dual JR Gold D switches for the RX and have made a removable box that drops into the rear cockpit and bolts down for the switches to sit at the same level as the side bearers. I did this as there was not much room under the 2nd cockpit due to the servo tray. The box section will be bolted in so can be removed if ever need to. I am thinking of running dual 1200 MA LiFeP04 Self Balancing Receiver Batteries and a Ignition Battery Eliminator & Kill Switch.

    I have most of the stuff I need now but still need to get the DLE20 and Pits muffler and couple of Hawk C-1 props.
    Also need the batteries but they are out of stock at present so probally won't be getting the rest of the stuff till the new year now,

    I will post some more pics when I get some more done.

    Have a great Christmas

    Regards Greg

  12. #62

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    It is probably not really necessary for the PT-19, but it is a good tip for faster/smaller wing area racers or warplanes. Yes, the idea is that both ailerons are slightly up, rather than completely flush with the wing. About 4mm (top of the aileron trailing edge surface to the tope of the wing) is the best to avoid noticeably interfering with the handling. This only works for planes where the aileron is in the end third /half of the wing (eg not the whole wing). The general theory in improving the lift of a wing is aileron slightly up for the tip end of the wing and down at the root of the wing. Of course, the PT-19 has flaps for the wing root.

    I got the tip when I was maidening another Seagull 120 size plane - the Percival Mew Gull. This is a beautiful looking Golden Age 'art deco' style plane, but doesn't have much wing. It is easy enough to fly, but landings are another matter. You must come in fast and risk running out of runway, or go too slow and risk it dropping like a lead balloon and ripping out the undercarraige. The undercarraige (which includes oleos) sticks out a long way and is notoriously weak. It can also drop a wing in an instant when slowing down and  lining up for landing. The aileron trick gives a few more km of low end speed and the plane is less likely to tip stall, making it more manageable.

    The oleos and undercarraige set-up on the PT-19 are far superior, and the landing speed nearly half that of the Mew Gull, but you still want everything in your favour for the maiden.

  13. #63

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19


    ORIGINAL: MercerAUST

    The RCGF 26cc should be fine. I have one in a 120 size Pilatus Porter (about 14 lb all up weight) where it is fine. My advice is to use an electric starter (any typical gloplug starter is fine), as it can take a while to get the fuel to the carby on the first start for the morning.

    I was a bit worried that the Pt-19 cowl might not provide enough cooling (in terms of the size of the exit vent), but it is fine. I was tempted to go the RCGF route (the engines are so cheap), but had a spare ASP 120 4-stroke sitting around and decided to use this.

    There are some photos of my stock plane if you click 'gallery' at the left bottom of this message.

    I has some more flights on the weekend which went well. As I previously noted, the flaps really slow it up for landing, but you want to try to land at about 10km/hr to reduce bouncing and bending back the undercarraige wire to which the oleos clamp. The wires are easy enough to bend back to their position aftera bad landing.

    This is a war plane, albiet a mild mannered one,*so getting the CoG right is essential for maiden. The plan will tip stall and would be a bugger to recover from a spin if you don't catch it straight away. Set both aerollins about 4mm up from flush will minimise the risks of tip stall (it effectively raises the stall speed of the wing tip a little, so that it is closer to the root of the wing which allows a few km slower flight before stall, and also gives a more benign stall).

    Mine looks and sounds fantastic in the air with the 4-stroke ASP. Personally, I don't much like the sound of the RCGF. You can improve it by glueing some foam on the inside surfaces of the cowl (making sure not to interfere with the air flow), wrapping some 'Rescue Tape' around the muffler (this is a good quality silicon tape that withstands heat and muffles the sound somewhat) and using a decent wooden propellor.
    I have several planes with this engine but with pitts exhaust and I find them quiet. I have one in my Seagull Decathlon 120.

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_82...m.htm#10593220
    Any Landing is a good landing

  14. #64

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    What size Pete's Pilot did you go with in the end? only I agree the pilots it comes with is poor and I want to get the correct size like your one.

    Cheers.

    OH it is a lovely kit! I was most surprised when I opened the box....
    Any Landing is a good landing

  15. #65

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    Hi darjen38
    I bought my pilots on ebay. They come in 2 sizes and I bought the larger.
    See attached pic.



    Bought 1 US and 1 British.

    Regards Greg

  16. #66

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    I new I had sean it but un sure to wich one you had. thank you.
    Any Landing is a good landing

  17. #67

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    I had a few more flights on my PT-19 yesterday. I reduced the flaps a little (to about 30 degrees) because I was tending to get a tad of flairing at low speeds. It seems to have helped.

    On my third take-off, I gave it too much elavator a bit early and one wing dropped as it launched into the air. I thought I could power it out of the 'butterflies' (eg not enough airspeed), but my engine coughed at a critical moment and I cartwheeled it into the ground. I was pretty lucky because the damage is not too bad. The initial obvious damage eas an oleo support ripped out of the left wing and tail assembly partly torn from the fuselage.

    Back in the garage, it was easy to glue the oleo support back into the wing as it had been cleanly ripped. I unclipped oll the control rods from the tail horns and found that the rear wheel rod and rudder rod were bent. I took them out, straightened them, and put them back on. I had to work the tail back and forth a bit before I could get it to snugly fit back into the fuselage. I shaved away some fracture wood, replaced it and glued it back together.

    The cowling has some tears and holes and my next job is to take that off, glue up the tears and fill in the holes. I'll do that tonite. I will also tape up the vbare wood where I hadto emove the covering (on the wing around the oleo and under the horizontal stab). The plane looks good from the top and the taped/repairedbits won't show up in the air.

    The wings and other surfaces are undamaged. Besides the oleo, the only thing that fell off was the fake exhausts which I can glue back on. As I said, I was pretty lucky (or the plane is fairly tough) because I feared the worst after my cartwheel from about 2m high.

    I'll be up again next weekend. I think I was lulled into a falsesenseof security becasue there was a nicewind on my first two takeoffsand the plane seemed to rotate a little earlier than usual, but with no dramas. On my final takeoff, the wind was dying and I must have just been that crucial bit slower on rotation. Lessons learned are to reinstate crow to the aerollins (I had removed this thinking I no longer needed it) and to stay alert with the elevator duting take offs if there is no wind.
    .

  18. #68

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    Hi Mercer
    Thanks for the continuing flight reports. [8D]
    Sorry to hear about the cartwheel. Can't imagine the thought as it all happened in front of you.

    Good to hear it may be a hearty soul and take the occasional knock.

    Keep the flight info coming.

    I am still slowly working on mine and will post some more picks once I finish the cockpit area with my switches and fuel dot in place.

    Regards Greg

  19. #69

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    Hi Greg. Yes, I would like to seehow the cockpit on yours is coming along. I've fixed mine, probably about 2 hours work, and will fly again on the weekend ifthe weather is OK.

    It is such a good looking plane that everyone came up with their condolences after the incident. I don't think anyone really believed me that it would be an easy(ish) repair, and I wasn't sure myself. Cartwheels typically damage the flying surfaces, or rip out critical bits of the wing/fuselage join, and the damage can be subtle and hard to fix, in my experience. Anyway, as I said, I was lucky this time..

  20. #70

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    I was equally as lucky with a Seagull AT-6 120. I've finished the structure repairs and the lite fill is drying now. The wing dropped almost vertical, the tip caught the ground and it made the most knife edged cartwheel I've ever seen. Damage was light.

    I give the credit to the lightness of the damage due to the wing tube dissipating momentum energy when it bent back fifteen degrees.

    I hope the PT-19 makes its way to the US. It hasn't shown on the market here yet but I've been following and enjoying this thread.

  21. #71

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    Got some more done and some more pics of it today.

    Looks like I got a Friday arvo special on one of my wing panels. The Flap had a large bow in the middle which I clamped for 24 hours to get the thing fairly straight.
    Also the control horn hole in the Aileron on the same wing was drilled forward and to one side so that you could not get either end to line up. Redrilled with a 3mm drill to make the hole straight.
    The flap hinges cause the flaps to lift at the rear but if you put spacers under the back 2holes of the hinge that screws to the wing itself you can have the other side of the hinge that screws to the flap to sit correctley and remove most of the gap when the hinge is closed.

    Below is a couple of pics of the landing gear mount in the wing.



    This pic shows that I have beveled the edge of the hole to around 45degree so that when the landing gear slides in it doesn't sit up on this ledge where the wire is bent at 90degree (so matches the radius curve of the bend) Also created a bit of a furrow along the the gap so the gear sits a bit more in the wing. Coated all with Thin CA to streangthen the wood and hole.



    The wire I took out of the struts as they were not bent correct. This also allowed me to get both the same shape and easier to set up the mounting straps.






  22. #72

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    The Strut fairings show to cut a section out on the side to go over the strut but I decided to carve a tunnel in the wood piece so it goes over the wire and hides it. One of the reasons I made an effort to have the wire as low and flat to the wing.

    This is a pic of the tunnel





    This pic shows how the fairing sits on the wing




    When I actually installed the gear for good I left the struts off and fitted the wire in to the wing and screwed down with the plastic clamps. This made it easy to get a good straight drive down on the screws into the wing. I also undid the top link of the plastic scissor so could fold down towards the Tyre. The reason for this is so when you slide the fairing over the strut you can slide it right up to the Tyre and this gives a lot of room to then push the strut on to the gear wire and line up correct then re tighten the 3 grub screws on each strut to lock in place(with blue lock-tight) then the fairings simple slide in to position and you can then bolt the scissor back on. (i hate Phillip head screws and really dislike little ones. I replaced the crappy 2mm machine screw with a 2mm socket head bolt. The original screw was 9mm long so I used a 10mm socket head.)

    These pics show finished. I have also painted all the bolt / screw heads the same colour as the wing. If you see one of the previous pics you can see all the screws for the flaps and the socket head screws I used to holde the servo panels in the wing. They are much less noticeable now. I also painted where the wire goes in to the wing.





  23. #73

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    I have fitted my pilot bases and dash boards now. I cut out a lot of the wood around the side and on top where the pilots sit to reduce a bit of weight. In the front cockpit I have the Fuel dot and in the back I have the 2 JR D switches as a redundancy if one of them fail. I was going to run two 1200mAh Life batteries but they seem out of stock for a while so will probably go back to my original idea of one 2600 Life with deans connector with a deans to two JR extension. One to each switch.

    I painted the side rails in the cockpit and back the same blue as the fuse and the rest mat black. The switch box is held in with a 2mm socket head that goes in to a T-Nut. I made the box as the servos sit under this area and the switches would not fit so now they sit in the cockpit area and only the cables run under the Elevator servos.
















    I have not glued the pilots in yet while still working on it. The pilots , windshields and the rollover bar will be some of the last things added.

    Hopefully will have my engine by Feb. I am in now rush at present so just plod along with this. On holidays at present which is why I have done so much recently.

    Will post some more once get further along.

    I have also rethought my tank holding procedure and won't be using the bracket I made. Used more of the KISS principle, Now will be same place but lighter and easier to install.


  24. #74

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    Nice job, I still do not like the hinges for the flaps! I was looking at using the robart ones you drill a hole and put them in instead. But need to do a little bit of a think first.

    Great pictures ad description. Not started mine as yet though I am doing a rebuild of a YT/ KMP Typhoon that a Friend had and crashed so once I have finished that will crack on with it.
    Any Landing is a good landing

  25. #75

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    RE: Seagull 1.20 PT-19

    Hi Greg. The cockpit is looking good. Make sure the undercarraige wire to which you connect the oleo is bent forward enough so that the wheel axle is just in front of the leading edge of the wing. Any less and the plane will tip. A lot more (say an inch) and the plane is pretty well tip resistant and the undercarraige wire seems less prone to bending back. The tradeoff is that there is more pressure on the wheel axles/joins and they need to be kept tight to avoid juddering at taxiing speeds (eg the stock wheels wont last long).


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