CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
10-20-2011, 07:31 PM
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CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
I recently purchased an ARF Cesna Bird Dog with CY Models marked on the box as the manufacturer. It has a 98" span and is designed to fly on a G-23 or similar motor. I've been very happy with the model as it is well made and goes together very nicely; however, I have a question about the way the wing struts are attached to the wing. They bolt into the fuselage into slots and blind nuts installed by the manufacturer but the attachment to the wing on the outer end of the strut is with sheet metal screws and there does not seem to be any hard wood beneath the covering and sheeting into which the screws go. If the screws are just going into the sheeting, it would seem that they will wallow out in short order due to the vibration of the engine and flight. The struts seem to be cosmetic only, but I"m still worried about them vibrating loose where they are simply screwed to what appears to be only the wing sheeting. One thought is to epoxy inlay a dowel into the sheeting where the screws go so that they would at least be going into hardwood. I am not inclined to remove the covering and do any structual work since I don't have any matching covering..Has anyone built this ARF and is this an issue that has caused a problem?
10-20-2011, 08:13 PM
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
If you search under the name "Austars" you will most likely find a few threads on exactly this issue on this plane as it is the same plane.
The screws do pull out and the issue is known. If you go the hardwood route, make sure it ties along the entire sheet from one former to the next.
The screws do pull out and the issue is known. If you go the hardwood route, make sure it ties along the entire sheet from one former to the next.
10-31-2011, 04:45 PM
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
Well I put the maiden flight on the L-19 today and the first flight was uneventful, with just a little rudder and elevator trim needed. The second flight was another story. After flying around for about 3 minutes and after turning upwind for about 20 seconds, the entire left side of the stab broke off taking the left elevator with it. I was able to land the airplane with no additional damage; however, and examination of the aircraft confirmed my fears that the wing struts were screwed into nothing more than the sheeting as well as the braces for the horizontal stab. The left wing strut had pulled out of the wing and the left horizontal stab brace did the same thing.
This is a nice looking airplane; however, I cannot recommend it to anyone because of the inferior contruction of the stab and the strut mounting location. Now I have to uncover the stab, rebuild the left side and install a plywood spar across the front and rear of the horizontal stab. This should have been done when the plane was built but when you get 10 yr. old Chinese kids that have no idea where the stress points on a model aircraft are building these ARF's, I guess we have to suffer the consequences.
I attempted to get a reply from Austar Models, emailing them on their web site, questioning the method of securing the struts and the stab braces, but I got no reply. I will again try to advise them of the results of my second flight and see if I can get a response from them on the departing of half of my stab and elevator during the second flight. I have some suggested fixes that will make the model a nice ARF; but as furnished in the box and built per instructions, it will not fly for long. I had a good running Zenoah 23 turning a 16x6 prop, so we were not overpowered, if fact, we were running the engine recommended per the instruction manual.
When I get a chance tomorrow, I'll post some pictures of the damage and let you guys know what kind of reply I get from Austars models, if any.
This is a nice looking airplane; however, I cannot recommend it to anyone because of the inferior contruction of the stab and the strut mounting location. Now I have to uncover the stab, rebuild the left side and install a plywood spar across the front and rear of the horizontal stab. This should have been done when the plane was built but when you get 10 yr. old Chinese kids that have no idea where the stress points on a model aircraft are building these ARF's, I guess we have to suffer the consequences.
I attempted to get a reply from Austar Models, emailing them on their web site, questioning the method of securing the struts and the stab braces, but I got no reply. I will again try to advise them of the results of my second flight and see if I can get a response from them on the departing of half of my stab and elevator during the second flight. I have some suggested fixes that will make the model a nice ARF; but as furnished in the box and built per instructions, it will not fly for long. I had a good running Zenoah 23 turning a 16x6 prop, so we were not overpowered, if fact, we were running the engine recommended per the instruction manual.
When I get a chance tomorrow, I'll post some pictures of the damage and let you guys know what kind of reply I get from Austars models, if any.
04-30-2012, 02:44 PM
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
Last Sunday I took my L-19 for a test flight. Having read several articles about the stab weakness I had reinforced it with two 4 mm carbon fiber tubes. I also had reinforced the front section (from engine mount to the rear of the cabin) with triangle spruce and some 0.6 mm plywood strategically positioned as the frame seemed too weak for the size and weight of this model. It was not practical to reinforce the frame between the cabin and the tail section short of stripping the covering and the foam lining.
5 minutes into the uneventful and smooth test flight I started to turn into a base leg turn to begin the landing approach. That is when the whole tail section separated from the body section in mid-air. Upon examination of the wreckage to understand what went wrong it was clear that the frame broke off about 15 cm in front of the leading edge of the horizontal stab. The square balsa sticks were used in place of hardwood/spruce as frame for the body while the rectangular sections of that part we made using very flimsy plywood.
I am reporting this event so as potential buyers of this otherwise pretty model, can become aware of its inherent weaknesses; not only of the horizontal stab, but the body frame as well !!!
5 minutes into the uneventful and smooth test flight I started to turn into a base leg turn to begin the landing approach. That is when the whole tail section separated from the body section in mid-air. Upon examination of the wreckage to understand what went wrong it was clear that the frame broke off about 15 cm in front of the leading edge of the horizontal stab. The square balsa sticks were used in place of hardwood/spruce as frame for the body while the rectangular sections of that part we made using very flimsy plywood.
I am reporting this event so as potential buyers of this otherwise pretty model, can become aware of its inherent weaknesses; not only of the horizontal stab, but the body frame as well !!!
05-02-2012, 05:54 AM
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
BITO, could you post a pic of the section you said failed? My dad sells this plane on his website and I am putting one together for him. I would like to know about these issues with the struts and weak structure areas so that I can come up with a fix that I can be added to the kit and add it to the instruction book. When these kits are designed and built at the factory, sometimes a design flaw is not discovered until the buyers put them together and fly them.
05-15-2012, 03:22 AM
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
ACAM37, I am on an extended vacation in Lebanon where I tried to test fly my Bird Dog. I did ask a friend and modeler here to attempt the repairs,
I will check if he has not started yet to take some pics of the wreckage.
While on the subject, and since you mention that your dad sells this model, would he by any chance carry spares for it. I specifically need the front canopy and a cowling (for the red and white color scheme. If not would you be able to advise where I can purchase the items?
Attached is the pic before flight with a retrieval crew insert after the crash.
I will check if he has not started yet to take some pics of the wreckage.
While on the subject, and since you mention that your dad sells this model, would he by any chance carry spares for it. I specifically need the front canopy and a cowling (for the red and white color scheme. If not would you be able to advise where I can purchase the items?
Attached is the pic before flight with a retrieval crew insert after the crash.
05-17-2012, 04:59 PM
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
[link=http://www.texasrcplanes.com]Texas RC Planes[/link] has spare canopies and cowls for the bird dog. He has a phone number and email contact on the website.
05-22-2012, 03:04 PM
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
I have the OD version that I purchased from Texas RC about two years ago. Still in the build stage along with various others. Texas RC has been good to deal with, and always fast shippment. When I first got this, I think that I did find another post about stab/empenage failure. I'll see if I can find it. I think that I also remember reading about the wing strut mounting point actually being ply or hardwood, but not marked on the wing, again I'll see if I can find the reference to this.
05-22-2012, 05:25 PM
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
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Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading" /></w:LatentStyles></xml><style> Style Definitions */table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-priority:99;mso-style-qformat:yes;mso-style-parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}</style>This thread got my interest up, so I got the wings out of the plastic bag and took a look. There is 1/4" plywood at the aileron mounting points on the wing. Looks like the wing strut should be attached at that point. I'll take a few pics' tomorrow and post them. It might be possible to put a nut plate on the plywood instead of using any sort of screw threaded into the plywood. I may use 10-32 rubber well nuts. I think that they are rated for 100 lbs pull. Easy to use, just drill the hole, insert into the hole and tighten the screw. The rubber expands as the brass nut tries to pull through the hole.
I also looked at the empenage area, and the bottom area is balsa sheeting. It appears to be pretty strong. My horizontal stabilizer is not yet installed, so I'll install it tomorrow and see how the empenage reacts to putting some torque on the horizontal stabilizer.The one thing that is not very scale looking is the aluminum gear. Too wide, too long, and missing the extreme camber when unloaded. I modified mine and I'll take some pictures of it tomorrow.
05-22-2012, 06:31 PM
#11
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
One thing to remember when flying this type of plane, it's not an Extra or Edge 540. I was at a big bird fly-in a few months ago and this guy was flying a 40% cub like he "stole" it. Well, as expected he snapped it hard and the tail came off. As he was walking over to pick up the pieces all I could hear him say was, as soon as he got home he was going to give the builder a call telling him what a crappy job he did building it.
These planes will do mild aerobatics but anything extreme is at the pilots risk.
These planes will do mild aerobatics but anything extreme is at the pilots risk.
05-23-2012, 03:12 AM
#12
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
The divorce of the entire tail section (vertical and horizontal stabs togoether in one section) from the rest of the body took place during the test flight of this model whereby NO hard maneuvers whatsoever were used. There was no gentler way to fly the model while doing the straight line and soft figure eights.
It could be that this is one of defects or that the balsa used aged while the model was in storage at the shop/manufacturer. The main purpose of my posting was to alert other fellow rc'ers of the possible structural weaknesses as I observed them.
I actually love this model and feel very sorry for loosing it. Local shops where I am presenly are not known to honor warrantees and in any case do not carry more than one of each model otherwise I would have gone ahead and bought another one knowing well I would also have to reinforce the body all the way to the tail section.
05-23-2012, 02:16 PM
#13
RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
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*/table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-priority:99;mso-style-qformat:yes;mso-style-parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}</style>Well, I got a chance to look at the L-19 today. The plywood around the aileron servo is way too far outboard to use for the strut. It looks like the strut should be screwed to the front spar. If you look into the wing interior, there is a 1/8" X 1/2" spar cap that is under the balsa sheeting. Looks too narrow to try using a well nuts. I might look at removing the covering in that area to add some additional support. I also looked at the aft fuselage structure, and it seems secure. With the horizontal stabilizer in place, I could twist it, and there was very little flexing of the fuselage forward of the tail assembly. The full scale aircraft does not have horizontal stabilizer to fuselage braces, so it makes you wonder if the horizontal stabilizer is weak in the center section. May have to work on that area also.
Pics' of modified gear.
05-29-2012, 07:03 PM
#14
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moreno Valley,
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
One of our club members got one of these. first flight the tail feathers failed. He gave it to another fellow, who repaired it, and on his first flight the whole tail end of the aircraft broke off. He has since repaired it and it has been flying good since! These guys are scale type flyers, and this airframe is just weak! 
05-30-2012, 04:35 PM
#15
RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
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Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading" /></w:LatentStyles></xml><style> Style Definitions */table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-priority:99;mso-style-qformat:yes;mso-style-parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}</style>Really need to see some pictures of theses failures to see if the tail section has been upgraded by the manufacturer. The one that I have, I got about a year ago from Texas RC. The top and bottom of the tail section from the cockpit area to the end looks to be 1/4" balsa sheeting. The horizonal stablizer rear spar is 3/8" balsa sheeting, 1 1/2" wide and the front is 2 1/2" wide, both ar 16" long. With the the stab. inserted in the fuselage, I can't see anyway the aft fuselage, or the horz. stab. would fail without extream loads being applied.
05-30-2012, 06:23 PM
#16
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moreno Valley,
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
I'll try to get Mel to give you some help with this model. It is a nice looking bird, and flys good. He has many flights on his, after he reinforced the rear of the fuselage. He also upgraded the landing gear.
05-30-2012, 06:50 PM
#17
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: beaumont,
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
Hello Ken Captduane ask me to look at your posts. I have numerous flights on mine now. The original owner let me have it after it came apart. So I have done the following.
1. Beefed up the flat area where the stab fits internally to give it more material to sit on.
2. Balanced the elevators. [A MUST]
3.. Cut in another door on opposite side to attatch strut easier.
4. Balance plane so nose is down just a bit. Level don't get it.
5. I just use metal screwa at top of strut. They don't do much anyway.
6. I have a 26 cc motor and it ok but a bit more power would be better because of the weight I have added to balance nose down.
7. I have replaced the gear with one that does not require a v shaped spreader bar. The stock one with a spreader bar added is fine though About 3/16 dia.
Thats about it or at least what I remember. Good luck. Mel.
1. Beefed up the flat area where the stab fits internally to give it more material to sit on.
2. Balanced the elevators. [A MUST]
3.. Cut in another door on opposite side to attatch strut easier.
4. Balance plane so nose is down just a bit. Level don't get it.
5. I just use metal screwa at top of strut. They don't do much anyway.
6. I have a 26 cc motor and it ok but a bit more power would be better because of the weight I have added to balance nose down.
7. I have replaced the gear with one that does not require a v shaped spreader bar. The stock one with a spreader bar added is fine though About 3/16 dia.
Thats about it or at least what I remember. Good luck. Mel.
09-08-2012, 09:58 PM
#18
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
I have recently received the L-19 ARF from texas rc and am starting the assembly. Does anyone have a demention from the firewall to the engine thrust washer. Other than the engine mounting I think the manual is suffient.
LG
LG
09-08-2012, 10:27 PM
#19
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RE: CY Models ARF Cesna L-19 Bird Dog
I have found the answer to my afore question. The demention I was looking for is included on the CY Models site.
TNX
LG
TNX
LG
