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ESM, Ever Soaring Models Any Good?

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Old 12-29-2011, 01:20 PM
  #1
skysfallin
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Default ESM, Ever Soaring Models Any Good?

I've been looking at ESM Warbirds that Troy Built carries,in particular the P47 and the Mustang. Just wondering if anyone has one of these birds and how well are they made, as well as any poor construction issues. Both call for a 26-35 cc engines although I would probably use a DLE30. How good are the electric retracts. Ive seen the video on the version 1 and they are painfully slow. The videos Troy Built shows are very nice looking but the real truth is from someone who has built one.
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Old 12-29-2011, 03:47 PM
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Default RE: ESM, Ever Soaring Models Any Good?

WHAT YOU WANT IS THE VERSION 2 ELECTRIC RETRACTS. THEIR CYCLE TIME IS 10 -12 SECONDS
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:01 AM
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I have had the F7F TigerCat and the Cessna 185. I purchased the F7F about a year ago in hopes that it would be my first war bird. Upon inspecting the kit, i noticed extremely poor quality of the fit and finish. The nose gear door was warped. I complained to the vendor that I purchsed the kit from. He was quick to send me a new nose gear door however, the one he sent was warped also. Covering on the flaps were torn and again the vendor sent me new flaps. I felt that the over all quality was poor and is sold the plane prior to starting construction. I did let the person that perchased the plane what issues I had. I felt that may be I just got a bad kit.

I purchased an ESM Cessna 185 from TroyBuiltModels.com for a Christmas present this year. I did not open the box unitl Christmas day. I began construction day after New Years Day. I was hoping that the poor quality of the F7F TigerCat was an isolated event. Well I was wrong. As soon as I pulled the fuse out of the box I noticed that there was a lot of dirt in the paint. The fuse is fiberglass and painted. Below is a list of things I found and what I did about it.

1. Dirt in fuse paint. May wet sand and buff. I hope there is enough clear to do this.
2. Root rib template to position anti rotation pins appears to be for a different. Rear anti rotation pin position on template is over a large open hole in the wings. I called TroyBuiltModels and they were not interested to trying to get me the correct root rib template, they put on an employee that built a 185 and he told me to put the wings on and us an incidence meter to align the wings. I can do that but it would be a lot easier to have the correct anti rotation template.
3. Cabin Hatch - the hatch is warped. rear of hatch is warped where each side is warped up. Should be bowed down to follow lines of fuse. I did not notice this unitl I had installed fasteners to front and back of hatch. Not sure what I will do with this yet. Hatch looks like fiberglass. Will probably have to make one out of balsa and fiberglass.
4. Stab anti rotation template - another anti rotation template that appears to be from some other kit or just a poorly made template. The rear antirotation pin hole on the template in half over an open hole in the stab and half over solid balsa porition of stab. The rear hole on the template is too far forward. I may be able to drill another hole in the template and make it work.
5. Aluminum tube through stab - The aluminum tube fits perfectly into each stab however, the hole in the fuse for the aluminum tube is too large and the tube does not touch the fuse. No alignment or support is provided by the use.
6. With the stabs fitted to the fuse with the aluminum the front of the stab is not touching the fuse. It appears that the holes in the stab for the aluminum tube are not straight and causes each stab, front of stab root, to pull away from the fuse. Without the aluminum tube installed, the stab fits great, cant glue this way, have to have the aluminum installed. Guess I'll have to work on this situation.

There is one other thing I noticed when I initially inspected the fuse. The fiberglass of the fuse is wrapped around and covers the front of the fuse. Inside the fuse there is a sizeable piece of plywood acting to the firewall. This firewall is glued to the fiberglass that wraps around the front of the fuse, where the motor mount goes. There is no additional support for the firewall to be tied into the other structure of the fuse. Looks like the fiberglass could easily break.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:52 AM
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DavKhy, thanks for the response. I wanted to hear from someone who has seen these models out of the box. The 3rd sentence on your #2 statement tells me alot. How Troy Built handled the situation. Either they care about customer service or they don't and when they don't I'll spend my money where they do. Ive bought a lot of engines, servos, and building supplies from them but no airplanes.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:07 PM
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I have the ESM P-47 and have had none of the issues you mention. It is a great kit. The instructions are TERRIBLE, though. That is not to take away from your problems DavKhy, but they all aren't bad. I have the P-47, FW-190, Stuka, and the P-51B. The paint is nearly flawless on all of mine, and I haven't found a warp so far. I did have a broken plastic wheel well on the P-47, but I wasn't going to use them anyway. And you have to be gentle with the plastic parts on these, they can be broken easily if you are careless. other than these issues, they have been good kits. Check with VQ Warbirds (where I got mine)... Tomas is great to work with and provides great customer service.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:32 PM
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FirePower,

I have a friend that has the 85" Corsair and it looks good. The F7F I had as painted Navy dark blue and flat. Did not look too good. The ESM Cessna 185 did have a lot of dirt in the paint. Im still working on the Cessna and found that
there were another small problem that is another to be added to the list. The bolts that hold the wheels on are too small, alloing the heels to wobble a lot. Also the hole in the landing gear is much to large. I will have to use a 3/16" bolt and drill out the wheel hubs to get the wheels to work correctly. The instuctions say to install the 2 "j-screws" to the root of each wing half and use 2 rubber bands to hold the wing halves to the fuse. I've been in the hobby for 45 years and this is stupid. I installed a blind nut in each wing half and use a 1/4 X 20 bolt to hold the wing halves together.

I sent a copy of my previous email to TroyBuilt Models and have not heard anything from them. Seems like they would like to follow up on the issues that I am having. So much for customer service.

David Bertrand
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Old 01-11-2012, 04:33 PM
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Another update, I just got my hands on the ESM Bonanza, and it also has some dirt in the paint here and there. The fuselage is ok, being a "3" on a 1-5 scale of quality. This Bonanza and the Cessna appear to be older in manufacture, and the quality was not as good as their current production warbirds. The newer stuff is better, with much better moldings and paint. The Bonanza is good overall, with the wooden wings and tail being of exceptional quality.

It will be my first civilian aircraft in large scale...
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Old 01-12-2012, 03:52 PM
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FirePower,

Now I find out that the Cessna is an older kit. Enjoy your Bonanza.

Dave
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:24 PM
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Enjoy your Cessna! You'll get her all figured out!
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:31 PM
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Default RE: ESM, Ever Soaring Models Any Good?

Any word about the Stinson 108 or the Hawker Hurricane?
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:49 PM
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Default RE: ESM, Ever Soaring Models Any Good?

I have the ESM Skyraider and am extremely pleased with the plane. Well built , nice paint, I did replace all the included hardware as I'm not thrilled with the quality of Chinese metal. I've dealt with a lot of brittle Chinese hardware before and didn't want to risk my plane for the minimal amount it would cost to replace it with quality hardware.
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Old 01-18-2012, 05:28 AM
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tigermeet,

I see that you did not use the included metal accessories. I am looking at the elevator pushrods. they look like solid white teflon or something. The ends are to be glued to brass threaded couplers. I have not seen this before with plastic. What would be the perferred glue to use to attach the brass threaded coupler to the teflon/nylon/plastic? pushrod. Anyone please respond.


David B.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:07 AM
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I've just started on my SBD Dauntless from ESM. It looks nice from 5 feet away, just dont get to close! Instructions are terrible. Hardware is weak like many Chinese arf's. Most of the retracts I've seen cost almost as much as the plane itself , so I think I will install fixed gear for now. Has anyone built and or flown this one? I'm got an RCG 30cc for it. I'd like to hear from anybody regarding cg issues or other problem areas they might have found.

Mike in downtown Wasilla ak
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:58 AM
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Default RE: ESM, Ever Soaring Models Any Good?



    i have the beaver it was a nightmare first i through the hardware pack away the second was to put blind nuts in the wingroots to hold the wing in stead of rubberbands. tail wheel assembly sucked had to reconfiger that. the plane is real tail heavy from the start. i put a dle30 in it and still had to put two pounds of lead in the nose. the wing loading went out the window then. what if someone whould have put a glo on this bird it would have had to put two more pounds of lead in it. the fuse had a bad crack in the seam they are notorious for this. tbm shows how to repare this because so many are cracked. no dont think i will buy another beaver from esm.?

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Old 09-28-2012, 11:16 PM
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Well, I guess one should first read and then buy.[] I for one did it the other way around [&:]and when reading this thread went running for my kit to have a look.[:-]
I am glad to say that I am satisfied with my kit.[8D] Painting looks good, covering needs a touch here and there, but generally good. I don't think I will use the hardware that came with the kit, after all, I did not buy hardware, I bought an air frame. I believe a guy in Cape Town has built one and used a DLE 30 having to add only 2oz of lead in the nose. A 20cc should be enough for this plane but if you are going to add ballast, why not add power at the same time. It can't hurt. If I can figure out how this browser works I will add some pics to make your mouth water. Now don't all of you go running to buy one. It is nice to have the only Dauntless at the club.
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Old 09-29-2012, 02:24 AM
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Default RE: ESM, Ever Soaring Models Any Good?

My experiences with both ESM and Troybuilt were unpleasant. Inferior quality and poor customer service. I won't go into more detail, but if you want recommendations, I really like Top Flight and Hangar 9 for quality and customer service issues.
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Old 09-29-2012, 03:02 AM
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I supose you are right. I own both Top Flight and Hanger 9, the quality is outstanding. The problem locally tough is to get someting that resembles what I want to fly, and in this case it is the Dauntless. When I start on this one I will post some pics, first have to finish my TF Cessna 182 and refurbish my Aeroworks Stearman.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:47 PM
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I bought an ESM ARF when sold by Kondor model products. I took photos of no less than 30 defects in the model, in hopes of confronting Andy Kondor at the Toledo show. Meanwhile I took three months to fix it the best I could. But it came apart in the air during its maiden flight. ESM is at the top of my Black List and will remain there forever!

Using aircraft from variety of manufacturers, some good, some not so good, I'm now finishing the customization of my 73rd ARF. Never have I encountered anything close to being as bad as an ESM model. This not an opinion...It is a fact.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:43 PM
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Which ESM model was it? I am curious in case I need to stay away from the one you are referring to.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:40 PM
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Hi to all, I am planning to install a Zenoah G 38 on my new ESM SBD Dauntless. Have anyone flew this bird with the G 38????? This engine is heavy, Whay about balance?? I am afraid about adding tail weight, will it be necessarily??
Alex
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:42 PM
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Hi to all, I am planning to install a Zenoah G 38 on my new ESM SBD Dauntless. Have anyone flew this bird with the G 38????? This engine is heavy, Whay about balance?? I am afraid about adding tail weight, will it be necessarily??
Alex
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:23 PM
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I have a ESM Beaver I have working on for a month and not much progress. I too put 1/4x20 inserts in wing root. One or two rubber bands is not enough. I am missing a lot of hardware which might be a good thing. Manual is a joke. Had broken parts and Troy doesn't have any and will never get them. Also missing one 1.8x1200 mm push rod

Jim
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:28 PM
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I am planning to put a Zenoah G45 in my Beaver if I ever get that far. It is definitely heavy. ESM and TBM are on my ____ list
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:31 AM
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Hi Guys,
I have a ESM F6F and I traded one model I had, for this kit. This kit had been one of the first F6F's built by ESM and had been worked on by two other modelers, over several years. When I got the model I needed to paint the airframe, for the model had some serious hanger rash. I installed Sierra main landing gear (very robust and excellent landing gear) and made a few changes to the kit. First I changed out the pull/pull cable supplied in the kit, with Sullivan pull/pull cable. The kit supplied pull/pull cables are no where near up to the job. I ended up tossing out all the hard ware and going with Robart hinge points for the rudder and elevator and Sig CA hinges on the flaps and ailerons. I used Robart control horns too, with 3/4" on the ailerons and 1" on the flaps. I installed a PTE 36R into the airframe and the model came out to just over 20#. I had to add 1.4 lbs. lead into the nose for balance and two 3300 ma. batteries for the Rx, up behind the fire wall and two 2200 ma. batteries up on the forward fire wall for the ignition system. This all was added to balance the model-better to use batteries then lead. I doubt if anyone could build this model under 18 lbs. and the instructions state the model to be 13.6 lbs. ready to fly. The CG on the F6F was stated was not correct in the instructions...but with a call to Troy Built Models, got the correct CG. Troy Built Models gave me excellent help on my build and made the build more easy for me. The instructions are your typical Chinese B.S. and to be honest, give you an idea of what you need to do...but you better know what your doing. These models are not for the beginner...period. You will need patience and some skill to get a nice working model...and they will fly well if properly built. My F6F is a sweet heart in the air and very impressive looking. I would go with no less then 30cc gas engine in any WWII fighter they sell and a 35 ~ 40cc gas engine is what I suggest you use (this is for the 72 ~ 75" wing span models).

I love my F6F and yes, it was a bit of work to put together, but well worth the effort. ESM ARF's are not your typical Great Planes ARF...they take a bit more skill to build, but will give you a nice scale looking model when your done. For the price...I'm looking to build my second model from T.B.M.

I know of an ESM F6F that came out to 25 lbs with a DLE 35R and the model flies quite well at this weight. The models are very scale and the radial engine models are short nosed models...like the real ones. This scale look does make the models require lead into the nose for proper balance. The models can handle the weight and you must fly them like the heavy wing loaded WWII fighters require. These are not trainer models and you must fly them properly. My model lands about as sweet as one could ask for, but I do keep the power on a bit during the landing. Flaps work on the F6F...and require a good bit of power for landing with full flaps.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui


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Old 10-13-2013, 10:35 AM
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Very nice work!
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