Register

If this is your first visit, please click the Sign Up now button to begin the process of creating your account so you can begin posting on our forums! The Sign Up process will only take up about a minute of two of your time.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 126

  1. #51

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Charlotte Hall, MD
    Posts
    35
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    On the subject of speed that is one thing..... BUT why do you want a trainer or cub to go 114??? Why not get like a sundowner or a racer and go 180??? They are designed for a purpose and taking them out of that design area is dangerous!!! Look at controll surface size and hinge gap... A Toledo special going 114 is asking for flutter and a lot of wasted money.... Also the potential to hurt someone depending on WHEN it does come apart!!

  2. #52
    rctech2k7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    377
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    I fly with specified engine for my aircraft but I also experienced to overweight my scale model which required me to add structural reinforcement and upgraded engine. There are big difference with regards to stall speed and acceleration specially on takeoff at rough runway where part of the load is still handled by the gear which resistance (frictional force) is very dependent to the weight of the aircraft (normal force). I also experienced how easy to fly an aircraft with slightly over power, takeoff acceleration is fast and aborted landing is forgiving where as for lower power engine which I also experienced would take time to spool up and while the ground is coming in fast at the end of runway, drag produce by increasing AOA can only result in lost of airspeed then eventually lift. This is why as much as possible I don't land my aircraft in idle power...
    More than just sports, hobby and recreation, it’s technology…

  3. #53
    rctech2k7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    377
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    These are the reason I think:
    -Desired for high Power (P/W) and Thrust (T/W) to Weight ratio
    -Unlimited vertical maneuvers
    -Slightly independent from the law of inetia
    -Semi-free from the law of aerodynamics
    -Higher and faster energy output since machinery varies with efficiency
    -To be able to save from the penalty of slight aerodynamic mistake
    More than just sports, hobby and recreation, it’s technology…

  4. #54
    rctech2k7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    377
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    If T/W is too much then probably to escape the reality of an airplane...
    More than just sports, hobby and recreation, it’s technology…

  5. #55
    Seamus OLeprosy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    TrimCo Meath, IRELAND
    Posts
    192
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    My memories from learning to fly in the late 70's was that nearly all the models I went through were underpowered and on more than a couple of occasions lost a model where more power may have got me out of a tricky situation resulting in a couple of weeks of repairs.
    Back then engines were expensive and anything like a OS40 FSR was more than a weeks wages.

  6. #56
    Mustang Fever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Cadillac, MI
    Posts
    3,129

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    I like to play with the tradeoffs: power/weight/speed/handling. Fiddling any one of them too much usually results in one of the others being adversely affected.

    My Shrike 40 has an OS 46AX on it with a 10x6 prop. Turns about 15,000 on the ground, which works out to only around 85mph, but over 6 pounds of thrust on a sub 4 pound airplane. It's overpowered by any stretch of the imagination, but the handling is superb and it will fly right out of my hand during an underhanded launch. The wing loading is light enough that it has no bad habits. I chose the engine because it has the best power to weight ratio of any reasonably priced mill, and it's important on the Shrike to keep the nose light, as they want to come out nose heavy.

    My TF B-25 ARF has a pair of O.S. 55AXs, versus the 46s called for. I kept the bird as light as possible: no additional scale detailing and fixed landing gear. On our bumpy grass field, it makes a reasonable take off run and performs well, in a scale manner, at 1200 feet above sea level on a 75 deg. day. With 46s, it would be marginal. The torquey 55s also allow me to use good looking 12x6 3 blade props, and the rpm is low enough (10,000 WOT) that she'll fly around a long time on 11 oz of fuel per engine. The 55s are a bit heavier than 46s, and that helps with the C.G. (These things come out tail heavy.)

    My TF P-51 .60 ARF flew OK with a 75AX, but I wanted some more punch in the verticals, and it just didn't have the top speed it needed to carry through manuevers. A 95AX turns the same prop (15x8) around 1,000 rpm faster and weighs the same so it didn't affect the C.G. (These build nose heavy.) I really like the way it flies now.

    One of the best reasons for overpowering is so that a scale size prop can be turned without overloading the power system. I just repowered my Hangar 9 Sopwith Camel, after many years of flying it on a Magnum 91 2S with a 17x5 wood prop. It flew OK, and with that prop was not what you would call overpowered. The heavy .91 helped with the C.G. as that short Camel nose made it real tail heavy. I went to a Turnigy G60-300 electric motor on a pair of 3000 6S packs mounted way up front in the cowl. Using Markus Muller's ecalc, I chose a 19x10 APC E prop. (20" is scale, but with the tail up for T/O the tips would be in the grass.) It's looks just perfect, and flies so much better I can't believe it. It is definitely overpowered, so I just don't need or use full throttle. I can cruise around forever on only 15 amps, and have plenty of punch for fun when I'm so inclined.

    So, to answer the question, overpowering (as compared to the manufacturer's recommendations) can be use to accomplish a number of goals. Now, if you go over to the extreme speed prop planes, you'll find a totally different approach. Them boys is after speed, and they don't care about nuthin else. More power to 'em, but if my Shrike could do 130 mph I don't think I could keep up with it.
    Bob Hunt

    \"Progress is marked by great smoking holes in the ground.\"
    -Gen. Chuck Yeager

  7. #57
    tfarmer96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wylie, TX
    Posts
    1,844
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?


    ORIGINAL: AB Bob

    I see it in posts all the time. ''I have a .60 plane, would a 20CC engine fit it?''
    A .60 size plane is made by the manufacturer to take a .60 size engine.
    Why are a lot of people putting in twice the size recommended ? I just don't get it.
    Do they think the manufacturers know nothing about the structural integrity of their own products?
    I say, if you have a 20CC engine, put it in a 1.20 sized plane! Maybe the wings won't get ripped off.
    Are you one of the people that over power their planes? Why?

    Yes i am! But the planes im over powering are not 60 size.......

    I would rather add motor instead of lead.
    Spitfire Brotherhood #2
    www.wyliewarbirds.com

  8. #58

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Mt Morris, IL
    Posts
    1,388
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?


    ORIGINAL: AB Bob

    I know it is a hobby. One that I enjoy very much. Most all of my planes are high wing planes (Cubs, Cessnas, Citabras, Senior Telemasters, etc.).
    I guess that is why I enjoy "flying on the wing." My niche as it were.
    I like long takeoff runs versus yanking them up in say 20 feet!
    I like to experiment with prop diameters and pitches, you can see quite a difference just doing those small things.
    I also know that if you have enough thrust, you can get a pizza box to fly (seen it)!
    The point about being way above sea level is valid, so I agree some additional power is needed. I live about 250' above sea level, so that isn't an issue for me.
    It's all good fun, I'm just curious because I have never had the urge to do it. Maybe I should...?

    Bob,
    be careful, you might get hooked like I did...

    I always use to fly close to the recommended engines in my planes and still do on some of them... Then I started tinkering with getting a little more speed.... This best way I can describe it, It's like driving 60mph then coming to a small town where it drops to 30mph.. Holly cow it feels like you are sitting still, you get that feeling like you could walk faster.. It's kind of like that!

    I like having the extra power under the hood for when i feel the need to open it up. Other wise a 60 size plane flys like a 60 size plane with a 120 in it, long as you fly at half throttle...

    Jimbo
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #92

  9. #59
    rctech2k7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    377
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    ORIGINAL: AB Bob

    I also know that if you have enough thrust, you can get a pizza box to fly (seen it)!

    That's true but remember we're not flying rocket or helicopter here. I know it require lots of skills but feel free to follow what is design for your aircraft. If your aircraft requires more lift on takeoff, optimize high lift devices and provide enough runway. Aside from safest way to do, it would be more beautiful to see your plane takes to the sky through the purpose of the wings and the energy she earned.
    More than just sports, hobby and recreation, it’s technology…

  10. #60
    Thisstrangeengine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Douglassville, PA
    Posts
    302
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    I have always had more power than needed in most of my aircraft since it will get you out of a bad situation when needed. Now I'm not talking about putting a 1.20 on a .40 size model, I am refering to putting say a .32 on a .25 size model or a .52 on a .40 size. I think alot of planes like a .40 size model are advertised with a .40 being marginal as an example. An old saying goes,"It's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it".
    Nosen Cessna 310 Club Member #54

  11. #61
    AmishWarlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Indian Trail, NC
    Posts
    2,929
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    So you not going with the called for .60's in your Nosen 310?

  12. #62
    TexasAirBoss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,970
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    I build mostly scale airplanes these days. I prefer to go small with the engine. It typically leads to a cleaner install. The suprising thing is that going smaller and lighter often results in faster. And if you really like speed, taper and foil the tail feathers. It removes about 1/3 of the material, and thus 1/3 of the weight. And it reduces drag significantly. This will increase speed of an airframe far more than additional power. Remember, the airframe generally determines the top speed. The power generally determines climb performance but has minimum affect on straight and level speed, the airframe determines that. As drag builds up, it requires more and more hosrepower. In the end, a clean airframe is the only way to really go fast. Go to Reno. Look at all of the Casade racers out there. They are limited to engine size. (I forget what the displacement is, but its small.) Those airplanes go like rockets. This is the fastest airplane I own. It is a 7.5lbs Sig bonanza with a OS 50AX. The plans called for a .60 engine. (The kit is from the 1970's, so .60's were gnerally not ported as well as they are today, it was also befor CNC machining and the advent of modern alloys, so a typical .60 had about the power of a modern .46.) But you should see this thing blow past sport ships. ITs pretty funny because its so fat , (yes fat, about 9")!

    BTW, those are fixed gear
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Hf97632.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	109.8 KB 
ID:	1766029  
    ME: \"I need a good rate down to one three thousand\". EXPRESS: \"Roger, we\'\'re coming down like a Bonanza full of doctors\".

  13. #63
    glydrjocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Somewhere, CA
    Posts
    302
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    An old crusty[>:] crop duster pilot once passed on to me the secrets of his long lived aviation career. He took me under his wing and said "Tony, there are three things in aviation that will do you absolutely NO good."

    1. The runway behind you.
    2. The altitude above you.
    3. and the fuel you left back at the pump.

    Perhaps that's as good a reason as any to over power an airplane, you can always throttle back but bending the firewall once the throttle hits the stop isnt gonna get you any more power!

    You haven't lived until you've gotten caught in a down draft with a 65 horse Air Knocker Champ at full throttle and had the terrain get closer than you'd like.

    Thanks again Reese for those words of advice, I'll never forget them!
    \" The only people who truly know where the \"edge\" lies, are those who have gone over\"

  14. #64

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Parrish, FL
    Posts
    351
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    "SOME IS GOOD, MORE IS BETTER, TOO MUCH IS JUST RIGHT."

  15. #65

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Haltom, TX
    Posts
    1,084
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    Simply put more power if needed is a good thing. Weight and.balance is another. Also you dont have to fly at full throttle
    When all else fails pull the right stick down!

  16. #66

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Mandeville, JAMAICA
    Posts
    5,958
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    Back in the early 90's I built a GP Big Stik 60 and powered it with a stock ST60. Shortly after I switched engines to a ASP. 61 with a Mac's tuned pipe and on the very first flight when the engine came on the pipe the increased performance scared the living daylights out of me, not to mention that it gobbled up the 14 oz. of fuel onboard in no time flat.

    Karol
    When inverted always remember that down is up and visa versa

  17. #67
    Thisstrangeengine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Douglassville, PA
    Posts
    302
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?


    ORIGINAL: AmishWarlord

    So you not going with the called for .60's in your Nosen 310?
    NOOOO SIR AW, Going with a pair of 1.20 four strokes unless I can find a cheap pair of G-62's LOL
    Nosen Cessna 310 Club Member #54

  18. #68

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    AugustaGA
    Posts
    288
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    my patty wagstaff is rated 30cc i have a 56 cc everything has been beefed up , verticle is unlimited and no manuver it cannot do , not about speed but the power to get you out of a situation !!!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Om32362.jpg 
Views:	6 
Size:	23.4 KB 
ID:	1766043  

  19. #69
    rctech2k7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    377
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    We should consider large engine based on our requirements and design of an aircraft not by what we wants. A lot of management guys failed on disregarding technical point of view... If within specified range are fine but once we're going outside the border is becoming dangerous. Even if we don't used full power all the time, it creates small fraction of damage caused by maximum stress and deformation. If you want speed, you can find an aircraft with lesser drag, jets are good example, most likely you'll get higher terminal speed and higher efficient aircraft. Most of all it's a high perfomance aircraft that can stand considerable high g maneuvers. If you want more lift at lower airspeed you can add more lift from surface devices. Finding an aircraft that suitable for the purpose, selecting the right airframe for the engine and vise versa I believe is the best choice.
    More than just sports, hobby and recreation, it’s technology…

  20. #70

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    fuquay varina, NC
    Posts
    795
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?


    ORIGINAL: matt43

    On the subject of speed that is one thing..... BUT why do you want a trainer or cub to go 114??? Why not get like a sundowner or a racer and go 180??? They are designed for a purpose and taking them out of that design area is dangerous!!! Look at controll surface size and hinge gap... A Toledo special going 114 is asking for flutter and a lot of wasted money.... Also the potential to hurt someone depending on WHEN it does come apart!!

    well for one, its not a trainer airplane or a cub style airplane at all, the thin airfoil wing allows it to be a quick airplane it cuts right through te air. And if you read my post fully i stated its been reinforced to handel the speed and stress which makes it safe to fly. Now when doing 114mph your not yanking it around or throwing the sticks around. Zero flutter when its been REINFORCED and hasnt hurt anyone! over 200+ flights and counting. Just because you can do 114mph doesnt mean you have to..its called power on demand. stick to your Prius lol

  21. #71

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Otto, NC
    Posts
    6
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?


    You're a member of a Cub Brotherhood, so I'll assume you fly scale. I flew a Twist 60 with an OS 61FX for over 400 flights while I learned basic aerobatics. Simply not enough power for 3D. It now has a 91 on it, and will pull straight up from a hover. That's the beauty of our hobby, and living free. We can chose what we like. I like to watch nice scale planes flown scale, but have no interest in flying them myself. There's a guy in our club who will only fly electric, but he is openly critical of all who don't fly electric. Don't be that guy.

  22. #72

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Ringgold, GA
    Posts
    11,487
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    Well, you are right that not just any model makes a good hot rod. At least not without special attention being given to things such as reinforcing the engine mount, wing retention system and hinges. More importantly is how prepared the pilot is to throttle back should things begin to get out of hand.


    Ed Cregger
    \"Practice makes prefect\"

    Saito Club Member #52

  23. #73

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Temple, TX
    Posts
    33
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    Overpowered? I like mine with a little extra Zip!! But I always beef up the control hardware to prevent flutter.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Qo39177.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	166.2 KB 
ID:	1766087   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Cx75976.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	181.6 KB 
ID:	1766088   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Ns44296.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	20.1 KB 
ID:	1766089   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Qj20353.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	163.0 KB 
ID:	1766090  

  24. #74

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Temple, TX
    Posts
    33
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    Some more pics
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Db85569.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	182.1 KB 
ID:	1766091   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Aw70572.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	174.7 KB 
ID:	1766092  

  25. #75

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    winston, MO
    Posts
    1,348
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?

    Several 20 cc gas do not have the power of a120 nitro. TThe 20 cc gas equals a 90 nitro unless your talking about a dle 20.


Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:39 PM.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.