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Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

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Old 05-29-2012, 04:59 AM
  #1
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Default Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

Has anyone else assembled one of these?

Any questions come up when trying to balance it?

I have read some comments elsewhere stating that 1 to 2 pounds of lead was needed to balance at the suggested place.

Maybe the Hangar 9 folks can add a word here....
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:40 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

Quote:
ORIGINAL: pettit

Has anyone else assembled one of these?

Any questions come up when trying to balance it?

I have read some comments elsewhere stating that 1 to 2 pounds of lead was needed to balance at the suggested place.

Maybe the Hangar 9 folks can add a word here....

Put a bigger engine up front W/a (heavy) nylon prop & brass spinner nut.The nylon prop will make for lower reliable idle RPM.

That should help.

Also, if the elevator servos are mounted in the tail (close to the stab) like some Tigermoth ARFs I've seen, move them forward & use Sullivan nylon pushrods.

I have yet to have to add lead tp a plane to balance it out.
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:49 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

Since this is being used for a magazine review, I will be using the EVO 26cc gas engine.

The elevator servos are actually forward of the CG, as are the batteries. Not much in the tail at all.

I'll check the CG tonight and report back.

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Old 05-29-2012, 09:39 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

Senior T:
You just haven't had the right plane yet if you havent added lead.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

A very high percentage of the planes I have either built (kits) or assembled (ARFs) and the count is well over 250 in the last 30 years, have NOT required any lead to balance.
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:56 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth


Quote:
ORIGINAL: pettit

A very high percentage of the planes I have either built (kits) or assembles (ARFs) and the count is well over 250 in the last 30 years, have NOT required any lead to balance.
That's a G-62 man talking!
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:44 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

Yes, indeed! Some "lead" produces horsepower!!!

BTW, I got out my ruler, pencil and paper and calculator and did fore figuring about the CGon the H9 20cc Tiger Moth.

According to my findings, the CG listed in the instructions (6.625" to 7") is about the 26% to28%point on the wing, very conservative.

However, My plane balances at about 9.5" back of the leading edge, without adding any weight,which comes out to be the 38.5% point, very dangerous.

I found that 20 ounces of weight could be added on the top of the motor box to balance at the 30% point (7.3")and still not interfere with the cowl.

I used lead shot mixed with epoxy, poured into a balsa sided tray that was sandedto fit the cowl. I didn't want to bolt lead piecesto the motor mount.

Also, 33% is 7.85" back for those who want to be a little aggressive.

Those sanded areas on the side of the engine box allow the cowl to clear without hitting the box.


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Old 05-30-2012, 06:08 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

One thing I see off the bat. If you use the Hangar 9 aluminum mounts, they are around 4 ounces heavier than the nylon ones. Also, that is more forward than your lead so you may get to remove 5-6 ounces of lead by using the aluminum mounts for your Evolution 26.

Also, I can't tell from your picture but can you put the Ignition and Rx batteries both on the motor box instead of lead?
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:11 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

Also as pointed out a 1-2 Oz heavy brass prop hub will go a long way I think. Not sure if a plastic spinner or heavy hub looks more scale, I assume the hub may look better also.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:13 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

Seems like the lead should have been included in the kit for that price.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:15 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

I don't plan to scrape off 4 ounces of lead and completely re-do everything on the front of the firewall to save a few ounces.

If 4 ounces is gonna stop me from flying, I'd better quit now.

Both the Ignition and receiver batteries are just behind the firewall and there is zero room for them any further forward

Maybe a heavy hub will do a little, but I have both the metal spinner from the kit and a Tru-Turn that was sent.
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:44 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

Pettit, your motor looks very far back to the firewall on the mounts. Cant you move it forward a half inch or so and if there is room move the cowl 1/4 inch forward or even the full 1/2 inch to make up some of the gap in the spinner backplate?


Also, what batteries are you using, perhaps bigger capacity would help. Its still gonna add the weight, but a bigger battery is better than dead weight to me that gets me no benefit.


20 ounces is crazy!
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:48 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

The cowl is within 1/4" of the fuselage sides and cannot be moved forward. The carburetor is just about hitting the cowl as it stands now. The batteries are both 2700 maH 5 cell NiMH mounted just behind the firewal.

Moving the engine 1/4" forward would do practically nothing to the balance of the plane.
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:48 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

Are you going to use the Evolution Inverted muffler?
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:49 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

Yes, and it just arrived today. I added approximately the same weight to the location of the muffler when I did the balance exercise.

And Ihope you don't tell me to add weight to the muffler.....
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:47 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

Pettit, thanks. Can you take off your lead shot and re-glue it in a more forward position to the muffler? Just Kidding!!! Anyway, I have several H9's and am surprised it is that far off balance, have not had one that bad...and the 26 Evo is a HEAVY motor, more heavy than a DLE30 by alot.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:41 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth


Quote:
ORIGINAL: pettit

Since this is being used for a magazine review, I will be using the EVO 26cc gas engine.

The elevator servos are actually forward of the CG, as are the batteries. Not much in the tail at all.

I'll check the CG tonight and report back.

Dick, is this review going to be in High flight?

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Old 05-30-2012, 04:32 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

The swept of the wings IMO is causing this problem and adding dead weight is your only solution. Had a similar problem with a BH Pitts and only the top wing was swept reward. I used a 6V NIMH JR sub "C" battery pack mounted to the engine box to adjust the CG. In your case this is not possible.
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:36 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth



Yes, in High Flight, probably the Fall issue if I hurry

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Old 05-31-2012, 03:40 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth


Quote:
ORIGINAL: pettit



Yes, in High Flight, probably the Fall issue if I hurry


Well keep movin':-)

Gerry
PS: I enjoy your reviews:-)
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:12 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

Just got a note from Peter Goldsmith, Hangar 9 rep and Tiger Moth guru, concerning the CG placement. Here is the text of this message:

"Guys I have been watching this thread a little and have been concerned about you having to add weight to the nose. I went to a lot of trouble to keep everything up in the nose and the tail as light as possible to ensure you would not have to add nose weight, or in worse cases very little nose weight.

I talked to Dick yesterday and he also had to add a substantial amount of weight. (Nice job on the ballast Dick).

For reference 4 pre production and one production kit was built and flown before we shipped, none had nose weight. As you can imagine how I felt when the first few kits that have been built by consumers we having to add excessive amounts of lead, I was pretty disappointed to say the least.

Well last night I pulled mine down of the wall ( the one I was flying at Joe Nall) and did a C of G check. Sure enough, the numbers in the manual are 1” too far forward. Mine is currently flying at exactly 8” measuring back from the LE of the dummy fuel tank, and I have flown it 3/8” further back than that. So the manual should read, C of G is 7 5/8” – 8 1/4'”.

Guys I sincerely apologize for my error, and I hope this comes as good news as you should be able to remove some if not all the lead from the nose"

Kind regards

Peter Goldsmith




OK Tiggie Builders. Start chiseling off that noseweight!!!



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Old 05-31-2012, 07:09 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

Now that is sweet music to my ears! I have a Evolution 26 that is broke in and I have held off on purchasing this plane because if there was 20 ounces of lead to be added to make it balance no way I would want it in my hangar. Thanks for clarifying this. I will look on Hangar 9 website for the correction bulletin for the instruction manual.

Thanks sir.
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:22 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

I am thinking about smoke on my Moth! I have a new Sullivan skywriter ready, Pettit do you see room for a smoke tank and pump in the fuse somewhere in the CG vicinity around the wing tube area?

It looks like the standard 17 oz Hangar 9 tank I have found the sullivan round tank 12 oz fits right in the same cradle as the H9 17 ounce tank, should be plenty for 26cc gas installation. On my Funtana 125 with a DLE20 this has worked perfect with the smaller sullivan 12 oz round tank, 15 minute flights and almost a 1/3 tank left when I land.
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:24 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

I see on the Horizon site they have an inverted smoke muffler listed for $5 more than the standard but its listed as "Pre-Order", Pete Bergstrom do you expect this muffler in soon? Thanks.
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:48 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 20cc Tiger Moth

There's barely enough room from the CG forward for servos, batteries and the gas tank.

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