gade600sdi

They discontinue planes because they dont sell anymore. A new release sells well the first few years and becomes stale. Horizon carries parts for 1-2 years after discontinuation of a plane or more. They cant keep parts till there is zero demand, or else they would have 20 year old parts that they cant sell. I have several hangar 9s and if I really like a plane, and its discontinued, I buy a spare cowl, pants or canopy hatch with the intent that I may not be able to get it in 1-2 years. Then, if I dont need them, I can always ebay them away later. That is just how I cover myself.

Keep in mind if they stocked old planes and old parts, there would never be anything new or better for us to fly. Example, I just got the new Hangar 9 Katana 50. They discontinued the Funtana 50 and the Showtime 50 which I have both still. The new plane has about 20 improvements over the previous models, and I am glad they got rid of the old models and discontinued, because when I smash these two I will have a better plane to replace it with!

raptureboy

Yep, my guess is the OP has never been in business for himself. If it don't sell then out the door it goes. If vendors just kept selling the same tired old planes you would be complaining that they never introduce anything new. These guys spend all kinds of $ studying and testing their products and their markets. You need a wheel; Really? There's tons of wheels out there. I would reason that most arfs don't make it past 1 or 2 seasons, so why stock parts for years on something with a very limited shelf life. Now if you owned a Saturn, or a Pontiac and couldn't find parts.....

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

Really, the only parts you should need from a manufaturer would be the harder to fabricate parts (for the average modeler) like canopies and cowls. When you order the plane, order a set of spare parts. When the time comes, you will have them. If you never need them, they will be worth extra $$ down the road to someone who does need them and can't get them. I could make a mint if I had spare canopy/hatches and cowls for the 101" QQ Yak.

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

Darn wrong in reply to sorry.

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

First a long time ago if you wanted a model one drew up the design then built from the plans. Sometimes the plans were passed on or sold to others.
Then came the advent of kits. Someone else for a price would cut the wood parts to the plans and with the wood came the plans and instructions.
In both cases if you broke it you fixed it by rebuilding the broken part/parts. If you were like me you became a seasoned builder/rebuilder by the time you became proficient at flying the darn thing.
I still build but have my share of ARC/ARF planes and with skill sets learned from years of building can literally rebuild or remake just about anything as long as I have the remains from the crash. Perhaps you might give it a try instead of lamenting that a manufacturer of a toy doesn’t keep parts in stock forever. A wing or fuse to an ARF will cost at least half or more of a whole kit and most likely you can rebuild it for much cheaper.
I personally have found just about all manufacturers carry spares for a reasonable amount of time. Most ARFs are not what I consider long time airframes.
I would bet that in all the time spent lamenting the so called lack of support you could have easily built or rebuilt what ever piece that was damaged and been back in the air. The need to be more self sufficient is evidenced by the number of lightly damaged airframes one finds in the trash or at swap meets. I know of one flyer retired and on a budget that repairs and fly’s everyone’s cast offs. His repaired models look every bit as good as the originals and fly as well or better due to improvements incorporated in the rebuilding process.
Dennis

Chucksolo69

Interesting thread because practically EVERYTHING comes from China these days. Ummmmm.........didn't GM just partner with two of the largestChinese auto concerns? I think it did. Cheap labor and all. I wonder if those people who complain about cheap Chinese crap own an iPhone, iPad or iPod.............................yep, cheap Chinese crap all. But back to the OPs rant. I for one don't have time to build asI have a very demanding job; when I do find the time, I want to fly, not build. Hence, I buy ARF planes, foamies mostly, but I buy from the likes of Parkzone, Hobbyzone, Hobbico, etc. Still, these products are made in ......wait for it.......China for the most part, but at least they are being sold by reputable companies like Horizon Hobby and Tower Hobbies who will stand behind their product. I do what is suggested by a lot of folks on this thread. I buy spares for parts that are most likely to break in a crash like landing gear, cowels, props, even whole wings and rudders/elevators etc. Don't bag on a company because they are being business wise; they are in business to make money,they can't do that andstock obsolete inventory.

Termites Dream

My Feedback: (11)

Bring back the EXTREME FLIGHT 48 inch YAK PROFILE!!!!! Great flying plane, does things none of my other planes do. Best inverted harrier, hover and blender. Tried to buy a replacement but I was a few weeks too late. If I finally destroy mine I will have to try to build one.

rgburrill

I have noticed quite a few Wing Manufacturing short kits for sale since they went out of business.  Since these are real short "short kits", i.e. no wood, it would be nice if Wing had made arrangements with some wood cutters and provided digitized plans or tooling so wood packs could be made available.  I would love a B-26 Invader wood pack but am very unwilling to spend $200 to have the plans digitized - I would rather spend that on better tools for my own workshop and cut the parts from the paper plans.

fly24-7

Consider Bowling or Golf. Clearly this hobby provides too much angst for you....

This is not a high volume or high demand industry. It's a small niche. There are very few manufacturers out there these days that are willing to deal with the volumes that this hobby represents. I recommend being thankful for what we have and make the best of it. It could easily go away. Ask the jet guys how they feel about what the FAA's been cooking up.

As others have said, there's enough suppliers out there that have something that will work. I had an Extra 260 with a busted canopy and the manufacturer was out of business. Measured it up, spent a half-hour on the web, found another manufacturer that had something that was very close in size, problem solved.

Bet in the time it took you to start this thread you could have found replacements for what you're looking for...

Jacobs Jasta 7

You can get parts for that, it's called "aftermarket." and being I have family who is into old cars, some of the aftermarket parts are better. Some you couldn't even tell it was after market, and some parts are interchangable with other models. Don't ask how I know, I've restored old Fords before. [8D] So with all due respect, I don't see how your analogy relates to the subject.

With the ARF market after a plane was produced for 3-7 years then discontinued, once the parts get sold out you are out of luck. A car, truck or motorcycle when a model or style is discontinued, the brand makers continue making the parts for about 10 years, then they auction off the molds to other companies for the aftermarket retail. The aftermarket parts remain in production usually for another 15 years after the original factory parts have been discontinued, and sometimes longer than that depending on the demand for that product.


+1 Thank you Rick, I'm still making scratch scale parts for my Dr1 one year after I so called "finished the build."

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10..._1/key_/tm.htm

When I Bashed, Highly Modified and Customized my GP Fokker Dr1, I did it for many reasons and I'm sure many of you rekitted or bashed old arfs before know- it is a labor of love.

People are quick to get on the band wagon making this discussion (rant) into a kit vs arf debate. Personally many of us (including me and Rick) are smart enough not to fall into that trap.

It's about parts being produced to support a product that we've spent hundreds of dollars or half a grand on in good faith. The reason why I have Dubro Tires on my Fokker DR1 is because I broke the stock wheels trying to break the glue off the 2 halves of the wheel hubs. ( Original builder/assembler glued the 2 halves when all he needed to do is screw them in.) The result was I broke the hubs in other words.

Also the other reason is that Dubro Tires I now have on it are more to scale, the stock tires was too big if compared to pictures and measurements of the real aircraft, mainly this was done by GP to make their Fokker DR1 easier to handle on the ground I think. And the last reason is I don't use foam tires on any of my scale or sport scale aircraft.

Most ARF scale glow/gas aircraft on the market is 1/5 scale. The GP 60 Fokker Dr1, Hanger 9 Fokker DVII and Camel are all 1/5 scale. There are hardly any companies that deal with 1/5 scale parts. It's all 1/3, 1/4 and 1/6. William Brothers stated to me over the phone they know there is a big market for the 1/5 scale, but he's having a hard time with the people that make the molds in Italy to produce another scale. But everyone knows, most of the time companies lie telling you one thing and doing another, William Brothers told me that they were coming out with 1/5 scale products- A year and a half later I still don't see it on the market after telling me 1/5 scale product was in the design phase and planning.

I think the person representing Greatplanes told you some wrong info Rick, but I could be wrong even though I don't think it was intentional. The GP 60 Fokker Dr1 was discontinued 9 years ago. I got in this hobby 10 years ago and saw it in Tower, wanted it as a "goal plane" and they discontinued it one year later when I still wasn't ready for it because my flying skills were shakey at the time. Like I did with Horizon, I got on the phone with GP and my complaint fell on deaf ears.


Now the places that do make aftermarket parts for some of the discontinued kits and arf aircraft are limited, Fiberglass Specialties makes the cowl for my Dr1 and the quality is better than the original one.( Better be- if I'm paying $60 bucks for it.) However they don't make the dummy engine or other parts. Fiberglass Specialties dosen't carry molds for all the arf and kit aircraft because he told me on the phone that there isn't much money in stocking and selling every cowl and pants for every arf and kit ever made.

I think the "big blame," (the more I think about it) is we live in a " Use it and throw it away" society. China, capitalized on it and takes advantage of it. So instead of being pissed at China, maybe we should stop for a second, think about it and maybe blame ourselves for having this type of way of life. Then, maybe then the market will start to focus on quality more than quanity, and back a product to keep a customer and make more money, rather than putting the almighty dollar (yen) before the customer. Like it was in the old days when quality and good customer and sales relations were in existence.



Pete

Sport_Pilot

Ilike the GP Fokker DR1 as well, but have no problems with them discontinuing it. As I recall (possibly incorrectly) GP was the one who made an ARF out of the CG Falcon. But these oldmodels just don't get the sales to be worth it. Instead the electric foamies sale.

pmerritt

My Feedback: (118)

If you quit wrecking them and tearing them up you won't have to worry about spare parts.    Raptureboy hit it on the nose.  You can tell from the responses those that have ever been self employed, or managed a business or had a job in the upper ranks.  There is no way in hades that a company can keep an endless supply of spare parts for discontinued items nor should they have to.  Granted it's frustrating as hell not be be able to find a fuselage or set of wings or canopy when you make one of those not so perfect landings but to expect companies to cater to the wah wah "it's all about me" types is absurd! 
Build it back the best you can and cover it with whatever you have if you want to fly it again or find a big enough Glad Bag and give it a proper funeral. 

opjose

From what I've seen the only rules or laws concern suppliers to the government, and even then this is sparse.

There are no laws, nor have there ever been, requiring retail manufacturers and vendors to keep parts available for any length of time.

I can't say that I like that at all. It sure makes me pause and think about any expensive piece of equipment that I expect to use for up to ten years... e.g. a lawn tractor, etc.

-

This is one reason I like traditional planes instead of foamies.

With the former I've learned to fabricate almost anything I need. The limitations ( for me ) is how much time I care to invest.

Jacobs Jasta 7

Many people I've met don't have much or just the basics in building skills. Some struggle just to assemble arfs either because they are all thumbs, or in a club that has the "learn it on your own" mentality. Because of the ARF and RTF market, it expanded the hobby so everyone can just about afford or get into it. Now that so many people are in the hobby, companies know how to flood a market, but don't know that selling parts is another whole market by itself. Make them (the planes) with cheaper materials, cheap labor but sell them for more.

Somewhere along the line, marketers were in it at one time for the love of the hobby as well- make a few bucks on the side off of their product. They had other jobs to sustain them as I remember. Now it's about if I can make a quick buck or making a living off the hobby- then "sorry, they discontinued it- tough luck" - and don't realize if they continued the parts, they would aways have a trickle income helping them stay out of the red.

People shouldn't be forced in my opinion to build if they choose not to. They should have the option of getting original parts for availability. But then again let me reiterate- the US market has this throw it away and buy new society and we just go along with it.

Pete

warbird addict

To all of the self proclaimed holyer than thou BUILDERS that go out of their way to Haze the ARF guys and fault them for voicing an opinion about the lack of product support after the sale for the ARF stuff, let me pose this question to you , would you or would you not scream bloody murder and cry your eyes out to everybody that was dumb enough to listen , if you suddenly found out that you have to purchase a new vehicle becasue your current 2 month old vehicle has a busted windshield and parts are no longer available
because your current 2 month old vehicle has been discontinued and there is absolutely no recourse for you , so your telling me you'd Mcguyver up a new windshield
different scenario but the situation is still the same, so if some guy in that same scenario is able to Mcguyver himself up a windshield for his 2 month old discontinued vehicle that gives him the right to treat you like a POS because You weren't able or willing to go to the trouble?
Well heres a news flash for all you criticizing Builders out there NOT EVERYBODY wants or even CARES to build so get over yourselves already, everybody is in this hobby for their OWN reasons and YOURS is NO BETTER than ANYBODY elses.
The ARF buisness is a multi billion dollar a year enterprise HOW DO YOU THINK IT GOT THAT WAY?
Because the kit buisness was LIMITED at best, The ARF was the answer to multiplying this hobby to what it is today, hands down, if you ask me throwing mud at the ARF guys myself included is like crashing a family picnic "NOT YOURS" and screaming bloody murder about how bad the food is and how yours is so much better !!!!!

kurt2022

My Feedback: (18)

Personally, I have no idea why anyone would want to spend hours-days-weeks-months-years on a project of forming and glueing sticks together, but to each his own! The newer top shelf laser cut arf's, like pilot, are much lighter and fly so much better than the heavier planes of the past ever did! I don't have the time or patience to build so I buy arf's and if you have a problem with it and think lesser of me because I'm missing the true essence of the hobby(in your opinion) all I can say is shove your disdain for me where the sun don't shine!!!

Azzir325

A freaking WHEEL fell off, and there is NOTHING anywhere just like it. You can't duplicate the missing wheel.

And don't tell me I can't be demanding and whine when I don't like what they say, because I can.

Charlie P.

Yes, you can. Or you could buy two new wheels of a similar style of the appropriate size and get flying again.

Might also be a good idea to pre-flight the fasteners occasionally to make sure the wheel collars stay put.

Azzir325

Can't build these wheels. Fantastic wheels. 6 inches and they weigh 3 ounces each. Bought Dubros. 5.6 inches and they weigh 4.5 ounces each. Wish I had noticed the wheel collars slipping, but I didn't. I am not the original owner/builder. He failed to file a flat for the collars, a costly mistake which I shall not duplicate.

psb667

I have that blue h9 cessna nib if you want it.

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

Gee quit yer wining no one is bashing anything you’re the one making mountains out of mole hills. It would be nice to have support for everything we buy but anyone with a hint of intelligence knows its not so. The auto would not be supported as long as it is except the industry I believe is mandated to provide support for a given number of years after the model year. The auto itself is expensive enough to make it profitable for after market manufacturers to continue to make parts long after support from the original builder is discontinued. Auto recyclers extend the useful life of the auto as long as there are bits and pieces left. Haven’t heard of any of this in regard to RC anything it after all is considered a toy fer crying out loud. Only a person with a very restricted grasp of the world around them would consider comparing our toy airplanes to an auto. It is my opinion you’re trolling trying to foster an argument between the ARF crowd and those who build. Get a grip and take a good look around you we overlap. I know many ARF advocates who build and/or repair their models. Like wise many builders like me have just as many ARFs as built subjects and we all enjoy them regardless.

If you had any idea of the industry you would realize both kits and ARF models are batch runs. Believe it or not most of your spares are from damaged items where the good parts are saved and held in reserve for resale. This is an attempt to recover part of the cost of the item that was damaged or returned for warrantee. Unless the subject is an expensive high end model spares are unlikely to be requested from the distributor. When the run is over and the kits and parts are gone it’s not cost effective to remanufacture bits and pieces. Generally kits that are broken up for replacement parts garner a return much higher than selling a complete kit. Example a replacement fuselage will cost more than half of a complete kit, wing near the same then the hardware and tail feathers are bonuses and one might even get to write the sacrificial kit off as a loss.

It’s not cost effective to do other wise so get used to it, no changes on the horizon I can see. Learn to repair what you break it’s not that hard for the average person.

In fact here is my latest an old ARF I have had on the shelf for years I called and the thing is out of production so there is no support or spare bits and pieces and it doesn't worry me in the slightest.

Dennis

stuntflyr

I bought a couple of VQ CAP 10 .120's from Hobby People for me and Dad a couple of years ago for a smokin' price as they were getting "ARF Stale", and figured it was prudent to get an extra cowling just in case of an off airport landing or something. They came up on sale about 6 months after we bought them for 16 bucks or something, super low, so it was a requirement to buy these spares. I never did see a spare canopy for them so I asked my buddy that s a real good fab type if he could help, he made a plug and mold from it and pulled me some much better canopies. The wheel pants suck, so I just carved them from wood after bending all new landing gear struts from quality music wire. Dad went stock and they are like vacuform over wire hangers!

One has to understand the market and the manufacturers, they make these models and then they are gone. It's the way it is, so I get the one's I want and buy spares of the things I might bust. Such is the ARF dilemma. Since I grew up building, I pick and choose what to use and what to re-engineer myself, (and I try to use as much as I can).The ARF seems to be a good thing for modeling. Since they are the most bang for the buck ever in the history of model aviation, in my opinion, the phenomenon of the ARF market is nothing short of amazing.

Chris...

dash3riprock

My Feedback: (10)

Wow you mean hanger 9 has parts stocked!? I waited seven months for a cowl for my blue nose! How long before they discontinue the over priced tigermoth I just got? I'm done with them. 

captinjohn

What is amazing too me is ...by the time you pick out a ARF airplane, buy the darn thing and have it a few weeks....you find out they are dicontinued. That means your stuck with a ARF that you cannot get parts for and nobody elese wants to buy yours if you decide too sell it. A good example is the Carl Goldberg 330 Extreme Profile. I will say one thing about that airplane....they had good covering on them. No wrinkles on the one I got 5 years ago....................

silvermansteve

My Feedback: (2)

i'm amused by the one or two people who say op should just be most thankful someone builds these arf planes AT ALL. i can think of nothing else a business person would rather hear. "thank you, thank you for deigning to build something i want. thank you." well ok. seems to methata responsible seller should keep a decent supply of parts for at least 2-3 years after discontinuing a model, no? or does this only expose my lack of sophistication in worldly matters?