RANT: The "Discontinued" ARF!!!
07-28-2012, 12:56 AM
#76
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RE: RANT: The
ORIGINAL: Charlie P.
You can strike back by building from plans. Then you can just unroll and rebuild the part you need.
That will show 'em. ;-)
Amazingly, you can even rebuild ARF components.
But to compare to similar prices items - go to J.C. Penny and tell them you want a replacement sleeve from the $300 suit you bought there in 2007.
You can strike back by building from plans. Then you can just unroll and rebuild the part you need.
That will show 'em. ;-)
Amazingly, you can even rebuild ARF components.
But to compare to similar prices items - go to J.C. Penny and tell them you want a replacement sleeve from the $300 suit you bought there in 2007.
One of the reasons I got into plan, and even pure scratch building (no plans or 3-views) is due to places like Great Planes only making a limited selection of models. One person here indicated that they know there is market for planes that they discontinued. That is absolutely correct. They would rather sell an easily constructed Ugly Stick with a higher profit margin, than a properly executed Stuka, with gull wing and all. That even explains why their Stuka was poorly executed, with basically a cartoon scale fuse. They sell models based on profit and not pleasing customers desire for variety. They may throw a few into the mix, but mostly for the purpose of spicing up their product line and keeping interest in their company name. Profit also explains why they have few spare parts, as they generally constitute a loss of profit, beyond the few cowls that they may initially stock, as they know that they will at least sell a few.
07-28-2012, 02:53 AM
#77
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RE: RANT: The
Once again, this ISN"T about builders verses ARF'ers. It's about manufacturers failing to support their products in a substantial manner. They should, and they don't. The only way this might change is if enough people speak up. I started this forum to speak up. Not as a debate. Not as an invitation to anyone to bash anyone, but as a voice loud and clear saying "I bought this item from you! What do you mean I can't get parts for it?"
Yes, just about any part can be fabricated and/or substituted for. I/we know this. Being forced to do so because a company won't take the trouble (dare we say "expense"?) to maintains a line of replacement parts is where my objection lies. Let's fill page four ( and forty more!) to let the manufacturers hear our frustration.
Yes, just about any part can be fabricated and/or substituted for. I/we know this. Being forced to do so because a company won't take the trouble (dare we say "expense"?) to maintains a line of replacement parts is where my objection lies. Let's fill page four ( and forty more!) to let the manufacturers hear our frustration.
07-28-2012, 06:44 AM
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RE: RANT: The
Horizon Hobby is great for doing that bought a Taylor Craft when they first hit the market nice looking,big .well bilt.flew great after a period of time decided to use a 26cc gas motorwanted to replace cowl,windows,add some new wheel pants ordered everything and of course all the parts were to small they had redesigned the airframe made it smaller and raised the price. PAR FOR THE COURSE finally gave up and stored it in another bld. where i do not have to look at it.
07-28-2012, 12:21 PM
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RE: RANT: The
I have one of those orphan Taylorcrafts myself. 86 inch one piece wing... I installed a bench seat and twin control wheels I fabricated myself. Got my pilot Barbie (the one that came with my Snoopy for my Sopwith Camel) in the left seat. It flies great when I can get the old ebay gasser to run right. Sure could use a few new parts, but like you said, H 9 doesn't seem to know the older model exists.
Rick
Rick
Rick
Rick
07-28-2012, 02:12 PM
#81
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RE: RANT: The
I bought both the H9 redbull Sukhoi and the giant P-47 and both were discontinued before I even got them finished along with a long list of others from H9 that are also obsolete
I come to the conclusion that pretty much anything you buy from H9 is soon to become obsolete.
I come to the conclusion that pretty much anything you buy from H9 is soon to become obsolete.
ORIGINAL: dash3riprock
Wow you mean hanger 9 has parts stocked!? I waited seven months for a cowl for my blue nose! How long before they discontinue the over priced tigermoth I just got? I'm done with them.
Wow you mean hanger 9 has parts stocked!? I waited seven months for a cowl for my blue nose! How long before they discontinue the over priced tigermoth I just got? I'm done with them.
07-28-2012, 02:57 PM
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RE: RANT: The
ORIGINAL: kurt2022
Personally, I have no idea why anyone would want to spend hours-days-weeks-months-years on a project of forming and glueing sticks together, but to each his own! The newer top shelf laser cut arf's, like pilot, are much lighter and fly so much better than the heavier planes of the past ever did! I don't have the time or patience to build so I buy arf's and if you have a problem with it and think lesser of me because I'm missing the true essence of the hobby(in your opinion) all I can say is shove your disdain for me where the sun don't shine!!!
Personally, I have no idea why anyone would want to spend hours-days-weeks-months-years on a project of forming and glueing sticks together, but to each his own! The newer top shelf laser cut arf's, like pilot, are much lighter and fly so much better than the heavier planes of the past ever did! I don't have the time or patience to build so I buy arf's and if you have a problem with it and think lesser of me because I'm missing the true essence of the hobby(in your opinion) all I can say is shove your disdain for me where the sun don't shine!!!
That is funny how you worded that.
Personally I like to build at times, but not all the time. When I do build from a "lumberyard from a box," it does give me a big sense of accomplishment. But I also love ARF Aircraft. To me it's a matter of choice- thank heavens we have it!You know it's funny? How many times we've taken a new ARF to a club, and everyone was shocked it was a ARF? I can understand I have everyone fooled with my DR1 because it was completely "bashed," but about 2 weeks ago and with a few other clubs I visited, when they saw my Hanger 9 Fokker DVII they too thought it was a kit.
I guess some don't get out much or they are machines or robots working 12 hours a day at a factory. [X(]So if you show up at the field with a electric foamy, I don't care- I'm just happy you showed up with something to fly. This hobby isn't about politics, personalities, statis with a job or what airplane or helicopter you have. It's about flying for a day to forget about life for a while, making friends in the process talking about airplanes and helping each other out enjoying the hobby.
What Rick and I are talking about in this thread is ways this hobby could improve itself and keep it going because of the manufactures personal love for model aviation, not if how much they can make a buck off of us in a short period of time. I know a guy in my club who makes foamies and 3D for the market, he comes to my field almost every week. He's been in business for about 5 years and he told me personally when he changes to a new model, and someone needs a part for a ealier design that he will go out his way to make the part for him. I asked him if he gets a lot of customers and he said," not bad- I don't expect to make a living off of it, if I did it wouldn't be a hobby for me anymore." He then explained that selling a whole kit was the cake, and selling parts was just the icing on the cake. So in other words he told me if he discontinued the part making for his old designs, he would have less customers. If he didn't sell parts, he told me in a nut shell that money wouldn't be trickling in. So it is my opinion and fact, having money trickling in is better than not making any money at all.
ORIGINAL: Sentinel
I know the feeling guys, I have been waiting 4 months for a Hanger 9 Corsair 50 'Wing'' from Horizon.
I know the feeling guys, I have been waiting 4 months for a Hanger 9 Corsair 50 'Wing'' from Horizon.
Pete
07-28-2012, 03:14 PM
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RE: RANT: The
ORIGINAL: Propworn
I got into this Hobby in the early 80's and got my start like many others building and rebuilding kits with many to my credit and could very easily build anything currently available should I CHOOSE to, which I do not choose to do , so for me it's ARFS.
Don't get me wrong I am 100% about individual choice in this hobby, however I see it on every thread where the builders of this hobby can't resist bashing the arf guys with less than complimentary comments like "an ARF is not built it's assembled" and "Cheap Chinese Junk" comments that are meant to discredit the OP.
I've even been witness to some Builder attacking somebody elses for sale ad with the comment " Correction this is an ARF you didn't BUILD it you ASSEMBLED it" Really!!!
For me this is not about kits VS arfs or built VS Assembled it's about one group of people "Builders" continually attacking another group of people Arfr's for their particular choice to fly arfs, I have yet to see a thread where an arfr had something to say about kit quality or availability or parts support or any other relevant subject to an arf where some self important builder didn't chime in and criticize, demean or discredit the arfr for not building it from a kit.
I say if you want to kit or scratch build or build an arf it's your choice and NOBODY should be jumping on you for it, Ive yet to see an arfr show a builder the same disrespect they get.
As far as the automobile scenario I used in my earlier post it was just that a scenario meant for the builders benefit so that they might understand the ARFR"S viewpoint with referrance to the product support after the sale.
What I am trying to say is that when somebody attacks somebody elses personal choice an Argument will always ensue like I or anybody else needs to go and get permission from the builder comittee to use the word build or built in a sentence VS assembled or if I or anybody else wants to post a for sale ad for an ARF the verbage has to meet with the approval of the supreme builders board of approval.
My grasp of this industry is better than most, having been in the hobby like I said since the early 80's and with well over $100k worth of this stuff in my hanger , I think I have a pretty good handle on the state of the union just my .02
Gee quit yer wining no one is bashing anything you’re the one making mountains out of mole hills. It would be nice to have support for everything we buy but anyone with a hint of intelligence knows its not so. The auto would not be supported as long as it is except the industry I believe is mandated to provide support for a given number of years after the model year. The auto itself is expensive enough to make it profitable for after market manufacturers to continue to make parts long after support from the original builder is discontinued. Auto recyclers extend the useful life of the auto as long as there are bits and pieces left. Haven’t heard of any of this in regard to RC anything it after all is considered a toy fer crying out loud. Only a person with a very restricted grasp of the world around them would consider comparing our toy airplanes to an auto. It is my opinion you’re trolling trying to foster an argument between the ARF crowd and those who build. Get a grip and take a good look around you we overlap. I know many ARF advocates who build and/or repair their models. Like wise many builders like me have just as many ARFs as built subjects and we all enjoy them regardless.
If you had any idea of the industry you would realize both kits and ARF models are batch runs. Believe it or not most of your spares are from damaged items where the good parts are saved and held in reserve for resale. This is an attempt to recover part of the cost of the item that was damaged or returned for warrantee. Unless the subject is an expensive high end model spares are unlikely to be requested from the distributor. When the run is over and the kits and parts are gone it’s not cost effective to remanufacture bits and pieces. Generally kits that are broken up for replacement parts garner a return much higher than selling a complete kit. Example a replacement fuselage will cost more than half of a complete kit, wing near the same then the hardware and tail feathers are bonuses and one might even get to write the sacrificial kit off as a loss.
It’s not cost effective to do other wise so get used to it, no changes on the horizon I can see. Learn to repair what you break it’s not that hard for the average person.
In fact here is my latest an old ARF I have had on the shelf for years I called and the thing is out of production so there is no support or spare bits and pieces and it doesn't worry me in the slightest.
Dennis
ORIGINAL: warbird addict
To all of the self proclaimed holyer than thou BUILDERS that go out of their way to Haze the ARF guys and fault them for voicing an opinion about the lack of product support after the sale for the ARF stuff, let me pose this question to you , would you or would you not scream bloody murder and cry your eyes out to everybody that was dumb enough to listen , if you suddenly found out that you have to purchase a new vehicle becasue your current 2 month old vehicle has a busted windshield and parts are no longer available
because your current 2 month old vehicle has been discontinued and there is absolutely no recourse for you , so your telling me you'd Mcguyver up a new windshield
different scenario but the situation is still the same, so if some guy in that same scenario is able to Mcguyver himself up a windshield for his 2 month old discontinued vehicle that gives him the right to treat you like a POS because You weren't able or willing to go to the trouble?
Well heres a news flash for all you criticizing Builders out there NOT EVERYBODY wants or even CARES to build so get over yourselves already, everybody is in this hobby for their OWN reasons and YOURS is NO BETTER than ANYBODY elses.
The ARF buisness is a multi billion dollar a year enterprise HOW DO YOU THINK IT GOT THAT WAY?
Because the kit buisness was LIMITED at best, The ARF was the answer to multiplying this hobby to what it is today, hands down, if you ask me throwing mud at the ARF guys myself included is like crashing a family picnic ''NOT YOURS'' and screaming bloody murder about how bad the food is and how yours is so much better !!!!!
To all of the self proclaimed holyer than thou BUILDERS that go out of their way to Haze the ARF guys and fault them for voicing an opinion about the lack of product support after the sale for the ARF stuff, let me pose this question to you , would you or would you not scream bloody murder and cry your eyes out to everybody that was dumb enough to listen , if you suddenly found out that you have to purchase a new vehicle becasue your current 2 month old vehicle has a busted windshield and parts are no longer available
because your current 2 month old vehicle has been discontinued and there is absolutely no recourse for you , so your telling me you'd Mcguyver up a new windshield
different scenario but the situation is still the same, so if some guy in that same scenario is able to Mcguyver himself up a windshield for his 2 month old discontinued vehicle that gives him the right to treat you like a POS because You weren't able or willing to go to the trouble?
Well heres a news flash for all you criticizing Builders out there NOT EVERYBODY wants or even CARES to build so get over yourselves already, everybody is in this hobby for their OWN reasons and YOURS is NO BETTER than ANYBODY elses.
The ARF buisness is a multi billion dollar a year enterprise HOW DO YOU THINK IT GOT THAT WAY?
Because the kit buisness was LIMITED at best, The ARF was the answer to multiplying this hobby to what it is today, hands down, if you ask me throwing mud at the ARF guys myself included is like crashing a family picnic ''NOT YOURS'' and screaming bloody murder about how bad the food is and how yours is so much better !!!!!
Don't get me wrong I am 100% about individual choice in this hobby, however I see it on every thread where the builders of this hobby can't resist bashing the arf guys with less than complimentary comments like "an ARF is not built it's assembled" and "Cheap Chinese Junk" comments that are meant to discredit the OP.
I've even been witness to some Builder attacking somebody elses for sale ad with the comment " Correction this is an ARF you didn't BUILD it you ASSEMBLED it" Really!!!
For me this is not about kits VS arfs or built VS Assembled it's about one group of people "Builders" continually attacking another group of people Arfr's for their particular choice to fly arfs, I have yet to see a thread where an arfr had something to say about kit quality or availability or parts support or any other relevant subject to an arf where some self important builder didn't chime in and criticize, demean or discredit the arfr for not building it from a kit.
I say if you want to kit or scratch build or build an arf it's your choice and NOBODY should be jumping on you for it, Ive yet to see an arfr show a builder the same disrespect they get.
As far as the automobile scenario I used in my earlier post it was just that a scenario meant for the builders benefit so that they might understand the ARFR"S viewpoint with referrance to the product support after the sale.
What I am trying to say is that when somebody attacks somebody elses personal choice an Argument will always ensue like I or anybody else needs to go and get permission from the builder comittee to use the word build or built in a sentence VS assembled or if I or anybody else wants to post a for sale ad for an ARF the verbage has to meet with the approval of the supreme builders board of approval.
My grasp of this industry is better than most, having been in the hobby like I said since the early 80's and with well over $100k worth of this stuff in my hanger , I think I have a pretty good handle on the state of the union just my .02
Gee quit yer wining no one is bashing anything you’re the one making mountains out of mole hills. It would be nice to have support for everything we buy but anyone with a hint of intelligence knows its not so. The auto would not be supported as long as it is except the industry I believe is mandated to provide support for a given number of years after the model year. The auto itself is expensive enough to make it profitable for after market manufacturers to continue to make parts long after support from the original builder is discontinued. Auto recyclers extend the useful life of the auto as long as there are bits and pieces left. Haven’t heard of any of this in regard to RC anything it after all is considered a toy fer crying out loud. Only a person with a very restricted grasp of the world around them would consider comparing our toy airplanes to an auto. It is my opinion you’re trolling trying to foster an argument between the ARF crowd and those who build. Get a grip and take a good look around you we overlap. I know many ARF advocates who build and/or repair their models. Like wise many builders like me have just as many ARFs as built subjects and we all enjoy them regardless.
If you had any idea of the industry you would realize both kits and ARF models are batch runs. Believe it or not most of your spares are from damaged items where the good parts are saved and held in reserve for resale. This is an attempt to recover part of the cost of the item that was damaged or returned for warrantee. Unless the subject is an expensive high end model spares are unlikely to be requested from the distributor. When the run is over and the kits and parts are gone it’s not cost effective to remanufacture bits and pieces. Generally kits that are broken up for replacement parts garner a return much higher than selling a complete kit. Example a replacement fuselage will cost more than half of a complete kit, wing near the same then the hardware and tail feathers are bonuses and one might even get to write the sacrificial kit off as a loss.
It’s not cost effective to do other wise so get used to it, no changes on the horizon I can see. Learn to repair what you break it’s not that hard for the average person.
In fact here is my latest an old ARF I have had on the shelf for years I called and the thing is out of production so there is no support or spare bits and pieces and it doesn't worry me in the slightest.
Dennis
07-28-2012, 05:52 PM
#84
RE: RANT: The
ORIGINAL: warbird addict
ORIGINAL: Propworn
I got into this Hobby in the early 80's and got my start like many others building and rebuilding kits with many to my credit and could very easily build anything currently available should I CHOOSE to, which I do not choose to do , so for me it's ARFS.
Don't get me wrong I am 100% about individual choice in this hobby, however I see it on every thread where the builders of this hobby can't resist bashing the arf guys with less than complimentary comments like ''an ARF is not built it's assembled'' and ''Cheap Chinese Junk'' comments that are meant to discredit the OP.
I've even been witness to some Builder attacking somebody elses for sale ad with the comment '' Correction this is an ARF you didn't BUILD it you ASSEMBLED it'' Really!!!
For me this is not about kits VS arfs or built VS Assembled it's about one group of people ''Builders'' continually attacking another group of people Arfr's for their particular choice to fly arfs, I have yet to see a thread where an arfr had something to say about kit quality or availability or parts support or any other relevant subject to an arf where some self important builder didn't chime in and criticize, demean or discredit the arfr for not building it from a kit.
I say if you want to kit or scratch build or build an arf it's your choice and NOBODY should be jumping on you for it, Ive yet to see an arfr show a builder the same disrespect they get.
As far as the automobile scenario I used in my earlier post it was just that a scenario meant for the builders benefit so that they might understand the ARFR''S viewpoint with referrance to the product support after the sale.
What I am trying to say is that when somebody attacks somebody elses personal choice an Argument will always ensue like I or anybody else needs to go and get permission from the builder comittee to use the word build or built in a sentence VS assembled or if I or anybody else wants to post a for sale ad for an ARF the verbage has to meet with the approval of the supreme builders board of approval.
My grasp of this industry is better than most, having been in the hobby like I said since the early 80's and with well over $100k worth of this stuff in my hanger , I think I have a pretty good handle on the state of the union just my .02
Gee quit yer wining no one is bashing anything you’re the one making mountains out of mole hills. It would be nice to have support for everything we buy but anyone with a hint of intelligence knows its not so. The auto would not be supported as long as it is except the industry I believe is mandated to provide support for a given number of years after the model year. The auto itself is expensive enough to make it profitable for after market manufacturers to continue to make parts long after support from the original builder is discontinued. Auto recyclers extend the useful life of the auto as long as there are bits and pieces left. Haven’t heard of any of this in regard to RC anything it after all is considered a toy fer crying out loud. Only a person with a very restricted grasp of the world around them would consider comparing our toy airplanes to an auto. It is my opinion you’re trolling trying to foster an argument between the ARF crowd and those who build. Get a grip and take a good look around you we overlap. I know many ARF advocates who build and/or repair their models. Like wise many builders like me have just as many ARFs as built subjects and we all enjoy them regardless.
If you had any idea of the industry you would realize both kits and ARF models are batch runs. Believe it or not most of your spares are from damaged items where the good parts are saved and held in reserve for resale. This is an attempt to recover part of the cost of the item that was damaged or returned for warrantee. Unless the subject is an expensive high end model spares are unlikely to be requested from the distributor. When the run is over and the kits and parts are gone it’s not cost effective to remanufacture bits and pieces. Generally kits that are broken up for replacement parts garner a return much higher than selling a complete kit. Example a replacement fuselage will cost more than half of a complete kit, wing near the same then the hardware and tail feathers are bonuses and one might even get to write the sacrificial kit off as a loss.
It’s not cost effective to do other wise so get used to it, no changes on the horizon I can see. Learn to repair what you break it’s not that hard for the average person.
In fact here is my latest an old ARF I have had on the shelf for years I called and the thing is out of production so there is no support or spare bits and pieces and it doesn't worry me in the slightest.
Dennis
ORIGINAL: warbird addict
To all of the self proclaimed holyer than thou BUILDERS that go out of their way to Haze the ARF guys and fault them for voicing an opinion about the lack of product support after the sale for the ARF stuff, let me pose this question to you , would you or would you not scream bloody murder and cry your eyes out to everybody that was dumb enough to listen , if you suddenly found out that you have to purchase a new vehicle becasue your current 2 month old vehicle has a busted windshield and parts are no longer available
because your current 2 month old vehicle has been discontinued and there is absolutely no recourse for you , so your telling me you'd Mcguyver up a new windshield
different scenario but the situation is still the same, so if some guy in that same scenario is able to Mcguyver himself up a windshield for his 2 month old discontinued vehicle that gives him the right to treat you like a POS because You weren't able or willing to go to the trouble?
Well heres a news flash for all you criticizing Builders out there NOT EVERYBODY wants or even CARES to build so get over yourselves already, everybody is in this hobby for their OWN reasons and YOURS is NO BETTER than ANYBODY elses.
The ARF buisness is a multi billion dollar a year enterprise HOW DO YOU THINK IT GOT THAT WAY?
Because the kit buisness was LIMITED at best, The ARF was the answer to multiplying this hobby to what it is today, hands down, if you ask me throwing mud at the ARF guys myself included is like crashing a family picnic ''NOT YOURS'' and screaming bloody murder about how bad the food is and how yours is so much better !!!!!
To all of the self proclaimed holyer than thou BUILDERS that go out of their way to Haze the ARF guys and fault them for voicing an opinion about the lack of product support after the sale for the ARF stuff, let me pose this question to you , would you or would you not scream bloody murder and cry your eyes out to everybody that was dumb enough to listen , if you suddenly found out that you have to purchase a new vehicle becasue your current 2 month old vehicle has a busted windshield and parts are no longer available
because your current 2 month old vehicle has been discontinued and there is absolutely no recourse for you , so your telling me you'd Mcguyver up a new windshield
different scenario but the situation is still the same, so if some guy in that same scenario is able to Mcguyver himself up a windshield for his 2 month old discontinued vehicle that gives him the right to treat you like a POS because You weren't able or willing to go to the trouble?
Well heres a news flash for all you criticizing Builders out there NOT EVERYBODY wants or even CARES to build so get over yourselves already, everybody is in this hobby for their OWN reasons and YOURS is NO BETTER than ANYBODY elses.
The ARF buisness is a multi billion dollar a year enterprise HOW DO YOU THINK IT GOT THAT WAY?
Because the kit buisness was LIMITED at best, The ARF was the answer to multiplying this hobby to what it is today, hands down, if you ask me throwing mud at the ARF guys myself included is like crashing a family picnic ''NOT YOURS'' and screaming bloody murder about how bad the food is and how yours is so much better !!!!!
Don't get me wrong I am 100% about individual choice in this hobby, however I see it on every thread where the builders of this hobby can't resist bashing the arf guys with less than complimentary comments like ''an ARF is not built it's assembled'' and ''Cheap Chinese Junk'' comments that are meant to discredit the OP.
I've even been witness to some Builder attacking somebody elses for sale ad with the comment '' Correction this is an ARF you didn't BUILD it you ASSEMBLED it'' Really!!!
For me this is not about kits VS arfs or built VS Assembled it's about one group of people ''Builders'' continually attacking another group of people Arfr's for their particular choice to fly arfs, I have yet to see a thread where an arfr had something to say about kit quality or availability or parts support or any other relevant subject to an arf where some self important builder didn't chime in and criticize, demean or discredit the arfr for not building it from a kit.
I say if you want to kit or scratch build or build an arf it's your choice and NOBODY should be jumping on you for it, Ive yet to see an arfr show a builder the same disrespect they get.
As far as the automobile scenario I used in my earlier post it was just that a scenario meant for the builders benefit so that they might understand the ARFR''S viewpoint with referrance to the product support after the sale.
What I am trying to say is that when somebody attacks somebody elses personal choice an Argument will always ensue like I or anybody else needs to go and get permission from the builder comittee to use the word build or built in a sentence VS assembled or if I or anybody else wants to post a for sale ad for an ARF the verbage has to meet with the approval of the supreme builders board of approval.
My grasp of this industry is better than most, having been in the hobby like I said since the early 80's and with well over $100k worth of this stuff in my hanger , I think I have a pretty good handle on the state of the union just my .02
Gee quit yer wining no one is bashing anything you’re the one making mountains out of mole hills. It would be nice to have support for everything we buy but anyone with a hint of intelligence knows its not so. The auto would not be supported as long as it is except the industry I believe is mandated to provide support for a given number of years after the model year. The auto itself is expensive enough to make it profitable for after market manufacturers to continue to make parts long after support from the original builder is discontinued. Auto recyclers extend the useful life of the auto as long as there are bits and pieces left. Haven’t heard of any of this in regard to RC anything it after all is considered a toy fer crying out loud. Only a person with a very restricted grasp of the world around them would consider comparing our toy airplanes to an auto. It is my opinion you’re trolling trying to foster an argument between the ARF crowd and those who build. Get a grip and take a good look around you we overlap. I know many ARF advocates who build and/or repair their models. Like wise many builders like me have just as many ARFs as built subjects and we all enjoy them regardless.
If you had any idea of the industry you would realize both kits and ARF models are batch runs. Believe it or not most of your spares are from damaged items where the good parts are saved and held in reserve for resale. This is an attempt to recover part of the cost of the item that was damaged or returned for warrantee. Unless the subject is an expensive high end model spares are unlikely to be requested from the distributor. When the run is over and the kits and parts are gone it’s not cost effective to remanufacture bits and pieces. Generally kits that are broken up for replacement parts garner a return much higher than selling a complete kit. Example a replacement fuselage will cost more than half of a complete kit, wing near the same then the hardware and tail feathers are bonuses and one might even get to write the sacrificial kit off as a loss.
It’s not cost effective to do other wise so get used to it, no changes on the horizon I can see. Learn to repair what you break it’s not that hard for the average person.
In fact here is my latest an old ARF I have had on the shelf for years I called and the thing is out of production so there is no support or spare bits and pieces and it doesn't worry me in the slightest.
Dennis
07-28-2012, 05:53 PM
#85
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RE: RANT: The
No company in their right mind would order 500 replacement parts (because 500pcs is normally the min) for an airplane that has been or is about to be discontinued. Even if they could order a shorter run, the production and shipping costs would be so high that nobody would buy them. Any company that operated in that manner wouldn't be around very long to talk about it!
07-30-2012, 11:38 AM
#86
RE: RANT: The
Here http://www.williamsbrothersmodelproducts.com/rc.html I found 3 other places to get ww-1 and 2 wheels at and it took me 6 minutes because i timed it. Do us a favor and take up fishing . joe
08-01-2012, 10:12 PM
#90
RE: RANT: The
i barely have enough time. to fly... Arfs for me...as my buddy Kurt mentioned... arf are the way to go for the avereage working man..... maybe if i have the pleasure of retiring 30+ years from now, i wont get into kits... i already proved a point to my self... i bough a GP US 40...essentially a box of sticks... and a few months later i came out with a nice flying plane.... but when you take into consideration all the times invested... having to buy all the hardware, then puchase several rolls of covering... it all adss up... its cheaper to buy a ARF plane...
08-02-2012, 12:32 AM
#91
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RE: RANT: The
ORIGINAL: MetallicaJunkie
i barely have enough time. to fly... Arfs for me...as my buddy Kurt mentioned... arf are the way to go for the avereage working man..... maybe if i have the pleasure of retiring 30+ years from now, i wont get into kits... i already proved a point to my self... i bough a GP US 40...essentially a box of sticks... and a few months later i came out with a nice flying plane.... but when you take into consideration all the times invested... having to buy all the hardware, then puchase several rolls of covering... it all adss up... its cheaper to buy a ARF plane...
i barely have enough time. to fly... Arfs for me...as my buddy Kurt mentioned... arf are the way to go for the avereage working man..... maybe if i have the pleasure of retiring 30+ years from now, i wont get into kits... i already proved a point to my self... i bough a GP US 40...essentially a box of sticks... and a few months later i came out with a nice flying plane.... but when you take into consideration all the times invested... having to buy all the hardware, then puchase several rolls of covering... it all adss up... its cheaper to buy a ARF plane...
You got that right. It cost me a small fortune to rebuild and bash my GP Fokker Dr1. Finding original parts for it? Forget about it! That's why I had to scratch build and modify. It was a labor of love, and it was a ARF originally and now it's a one of a kind ARF I guess.
Nothing wrong with kits, and nothing wrong with ARF or RTF in my opinion. It's everyones choice what they want to own. Some of us (like me) love our ARF aircraft, that's why some of us invest so much money and time to keep them around for so long. My GP Fokker DR1 is about 10-13 years old and my Hanger 9 Fokker DVII is 4 years old and now getting a slight overhaul with a bigger more powerful engine. I plan on "Bashing" it and doing what I did to my DR1 in about a couple of years- maybe after next year.
Pete
08-03-2012, 12:26 PM
#92
RE: RANT: The
ORIGINAL: MetallicaJunkie
i barely have enough time. to fly... Arfs for me...as my buddy Kurt mentioned... arf are the way to go for the avereage working man..... maybe if i have the pleasure of retiring 30+ years from now, i wont get into kits... i already proved a point to my self... i bough a GP US 40...essentially a box of sticks... and a few months later i came out with a nice flying plane.... but when you take into consideration all the times invested... having to buy all the hardware, then puchase several rolls of covering... it all adss up... its cheaper to buy a ARF plane...
i barely have enough time. to fly... Arfs for me...as my buddy Kurt mentioned... arf are the way to go for the avereage working man..... maybe if i have the pleasure of retiring 30+ years from now, i wont get into kits... i already proved a point to my self... i bough a GP US 40...essentially a box of sticks... and a few months later i came out with a nice flying plane.... but when you take into consideration all the times invested... having to buy all the hardware, then puchase several rolls of covering... it all adss up... its cheaper to buy a ARF plane...
08-07-2012, 09:26 AM
#93
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RE: RANT: The
I run a construction co and have 6 kids and 13 grandkids and iam always busy fixing something around this 1940's house we bought but i still find a couple hours late at night or on the weekends to scratch build a plane.Some of my scratch builds have taken over a year to finish because of no time to work on them steady but sooner or later they all get done.
Joe, not everyone is you, some have limitations in what they can do. So no, not everyone has time to build nor do some have that workaholic mentality. No offence.
Pete
08-07-2012, 10:45 AM
#94
RE: RANT: The
ORIGINAL: Jacobs Jasta 7
Joe, not everyone is you, some have limitations in what they can do. So no, not everyone has time to build nor do some have that workaholic mentality. No offence.
Pete
I run a construction co and have 6 kids and 13 grandkids and iam always busy fixing something around this 1940's house we bought but i still find a couple hours late at night or on the weekends to scratch build a plane.Some of my scratch builds have taken over a year to finish because of no time to work on them steady but sooner or later they all get done.
Joe, not everyone is you, some have limitations in what they can do. So no, not everyone has time to build nor do some have that workaholic mentality. No offence.
Pete
08-07-2012, 02:48 PM
#96
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RE: RANT: The
ORIGINAL: joebahl
No offence taken here ,I know i push it hard but i dont enjoy being craped on because i enjoy building either .I have some arfs and my friends all fly them to but some of these threads start being about us builders rather than finding his goofy wheel.lol Plenty of haters out there and iam into building /flying and enjoying my new retirement last week and not all the drama of arf guys against builders .This thread i could have said nothing and just laughed to myself about the op not putting a flat spot on his landing gear wire and using some locktite on the set screw.But for some reason alot of these threads go south in a hurry with builders getting bashed . joe
ORIGINAL: Jacobs Jasta 7
Joe, not everyone is you, some have limitations in what they can do. So no, not everyone has time to build nor do some have that workaholic mentality. No offence.
Pete
I run a construction co and have 6 kids and 13 grandkids and iam always busy fixing something around this 1940's house we bought but i still find a couple hours late at night or on the weekends to scratch build a plane.Some of my scratch builds have taken over a year to finish because of no time to work on them steady but sooner or later they all get done.
Joe, not everyone is you, some have limitations in what they can do. So no, not everyone has time to build nor do some have that workaholic mentality. No offence.
Pete
You are very right Joe. Writing trash about Kit building or owning ARF aircraft only happens in online rc forums, not in the field. Any club I've gone to or been a member of doesn't tolerate that kind of talk. But don't forget, not everyone who comes in these forums are true RC airplane enthusiasts, or if they are, they have nothing to build and pass the time "trolling," sitting up in the rafters for their own entertainment- instead of helping others and to swap info.
Let me reiterate, these things like belittling what others own or like in this hobby is not tolerated at ANYclub.
Most of the time I see people trash ARF aircraft, not the other way around. I just went to my club today and I didn't bring my planes. I just wanted to watch other people fly and talk about them. For once I became the spectator, and enjoyed watching people enjoy flying their airplanes. Some were kits, some were ARFs and some were foamies. We enjoyed everyones company, talked about flying and just glad everyone brought a airplane with them. (except for me but they liked that I showed up)
Again we can fall for the "troll tricks" or we can talk about why it is good for the hobby to have parts available for awhile for discontinued planes, instead of having the companies like Greatplanes and Hanger 9 cut off making parts as soon the airplane becomes discontinued.
There are enough people in RCU I believe that can discuss a "rant" constructively, and some that just don't get it and can't tell the trees from the forest. But that's OK, I refuse to be miserable for their own entertainment.
I can see a lot can relate from some of the posts I've read. At one time or another, one of us has owned a kit or ARF that's been discontinued that they really liked, and couldn't get a stock part for it because they discontinued the model. I agree it does stink! All we can do is write emails or call Horizon and Greatplanes and keep pestering them. So far I havent got a answer why they think no income is better than having a trickle income. ( I know- slam the market with a product, get rich fast, discontinue it, owners out of luck, that simple) Our money don't mean nothing, and product support is nil once a product is gone, tough. That's what we get for spending half a grand to a grand for their products.
Pete
08-07-2012, 03:04 PM
#98
RE: RANT: The
I agree with you pete it should not be us or them but just all of us in one hobby .I give out free plans i have collected over 30 years of building and finding them for free ,why ? I would like to see more builders or help the ones who want to build but cant find plans .I have helped anyone online or here where i live to build or just fix their arf's . Airplane companys have bottom lines and if a plane does not meet it they dont stay on their site very long. Its the same with kits also but if you built one you probly still have the plans to make another piece or a whole plane if they dont make the kit anylonger. I just found this 60 inch wing span gem from the 80's and no one makes a kit any longer and i have been looking for the das,canard stick for 7 years now. I got lucky and found the construction notes and plan pfds .Good luck with you guys rant .joe
08-07-2012, 03:09 PM
#99
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RE: RANT: The
From where I'm sitting it seemed like the builders just wanted to jump all over the ARFers- on and on about "that's why I'm a builder" and "that's why you shouldn't buy an ARF" etc.
And as it turns out, the OP (me) didn't even build this particular ARF, but bought it assembled and there was no reason to pull the wheels off, so I didn't. Sadly the original BUILDER (who is a long time modeler who should have known better) for some reason did not file a flat, and the rest is history. So I needed wheels and I wanted ORIGINAL wheels, but Great Planes let me down, and THAT is what this forum is about. ARF manufacturers/sellers who DON'T provide customer support.
NOT about ARFers vs builders.
NOT about builders vs ARFers.
NOT about I can find/build/ acquire somehow a substitute.
But IS ABOUT manufacturers/ sellers who don't provide customers the support they need, and I feel deserve.
And as it turns out, the OP (me) didn't even build this particular ARF, but bought it assembled and there was no reason to pull the wheels off, so I didn't. Sadly the original BUILDER (who is a long time modeler who should have known better) for some reason did not file a flat, and the rest is history. So I needed wheels and I wanted ORIGINAL wheels, but Great Planes let me down, and THAT is what this forum is about. ARF manufacturers/sellers who DON'T provide customer support.
NOT about ARFers vs builders.
NOT about builders vs ARFers.
NOT about I can find/build/ acquire somehow a substitute.
But IS ABOUT manufacturers/ sellers who don't provide customers the support they need, and I feel deserve.
08-07-2012, 04:05 PM
#100
RE: RANT: The
ORIGINAL: Azzir325
From where I'm sitting it seemed like the builders just wanted to jump all over the ARFers- on and on about ''that's why I'm a builder'' and ''that's why you shouldn't buy an ARF'' etc.
And as it turns out, the OP (me) didn't even build this particular ARF, but bought it assembled and there was no reason to pull the wheels off, so I didn't. Sadly the original BUILDER (who is a long time modeler who should have known better) for some reason did not file a flat, and the rest is history. So I needed wheels and I wanted ORIGINAL wheels, but Great Planes let me down, and THAT is what this forum is about. ARF manufacturers/sellers who DON'T provide customer support.
NOT about ARFers vs builders.
NOT about builders vs ARFers.
NOT about I can find/build/ acquire somehow a substitute.
But IS ABOUT manufacturers/ sellers who don't provide customers the support they need, and I feel deserve.
From where I'm sitting it seemed like the builders just wanted to jump all over the ARFers- on and on about ''that's why I'm a builder'' and ''that's why you shouldn't buy an ARF'' etc.
And as it turns out, the OP (me) didn't even build this particular ARF, but bought it assembled and there was no reason to pull the wheels off, so I didn't. Sadly the original BUILDER (who is a long time modeler who should have known better) for some reason did not file a flat, and the rest is history. So I needed wheels and I wanted ORIGINAL wheels, but Great Planes let me down, and THAT is what this forum is about. ARF manufacturers/sellers who DON'T provide customer support.
NOT about ARFers vs builders.
NOT about builders vs ARFers.
NOT about I can find/build/ acquire somehow a substitute.
But IS ABOUT manufacturers/ sellers who don't provide customers the support they need, and I feel deserve.