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  1. #26

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    RE: RANT: The

    They make more money selling the junk foamies!

  2. #27

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    RE: RANT: The

    What arfs would you guys like to see brought back?
    It\'\'s too bad that stupidity isn\'\'t painful.

  3. #28

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    RE: RANT: The

    I have an H9 Camel and was concerned about the parts availability, funny thing is, the things that have broken were not designed too well and have re-worked those items to be better. As someone has said, there is nothing you cant rebuild yourself - and its fun! Williams Bros wheels rock.

    Harry

  4. #29
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    RE: RANT: The


    ORIGINAL: Azzir325

    What is up with these big companies (specifically Great Planes and Hangar 9) who sell us these lovely planes then decide to ''discontinue'' them and leave us owners in the lurch for parts? You know, if you are going to discontinue a plane that's OK, but you can't just leave the thousands of people who BOUGHT THESE PLANES FROM YOU hanging out to dry! You OWE us some customer support, and well beyond the time it takes to sell off the spare parts you have on hand. We bought your products in good faith, and now you're hanging us out to dry.

    That's basically my rant. It has happened to me before, and recently I needed a wheel for my Great Planes Fokker Triplane 60 ARF. I want original equipment, but GP says I'm out of luck. My position is they sold the plane, they need to stock parts until there is ZERO call for them.

    Let's hear from anybody who has been in the same boat.
    Rick

    Oh yeah, and for the record, there are THREE particular ARF's that have been discontinued and should be UNDISCONTINUED and kept available. They are the 60 size Fokker D VII and Sopwith Camel by Hangar 9 and the aforementioned Great Planes DR 1 60. For ending the availability of these wonderful airplanes, I give these companies a GIGANTIC RASPBERRY and my undying contempt.
    i keep saying it.... . people keep buying the chinese crap . they have no loyalty to anyone.
    Contest Director /Turbine pilot/ P-38 Brotherhood/Scratch Builders make their own Destiny

  5. #30
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    RE: RANT: The


    ORIGINAL: warbird_1


    ORIGINAL: Azzir325

    What is up with these big companies (specifically Great Planes and Hangar 9) who sell us these lovely planes then decide to ''discontinue'' them and leave us owners in the lurch for parts? You know, if you are going to discontinue a plane that's OK, but you can't just leave the thousands of people who BOUGHT THESE PLANES FROM YOU hanging out to dry! You OWE us some customer support, and well beyond the time it takes to sell off the spare parts you have on hand. We bought your products in good faith, and now you're hanging us out to dry.

    That's basically my rant. It has happened to me before, and recently I needed a wheel for my Great Planes Fokker Triplane 60 ARF. I want original equipment, but GP says I'm out of luck. My position is they sold the plane, they need to stock parts until there is ZERO call for them.

    Let's hear from anybody who has been in the same boat.
    Rick

    Oh yeah, and for the record, there are THREE particular ARF's that have been discontinued and should be UNDISCONTINUED and kept available. They are the 60 size Fokker D VII and Sopwith Camel by Hangar 9 and the aforementioned Great Planes DR 1 60. For ending the availability of these wonderful airplanes, I give these companies a GIGANTIC RASPBERRY and my undying contempt.
    i keep saying it.... . people keep buying the chinese crap . they have no loyalty to anyone.
    +1....no loyalty to American workers. People are always looking for the next peice of cheap junk from china. Then they want to whine when their cheap peice of junk breaks and they can't get a part. BooHoo

    BUYAKITANDBUILDIT! Amazing things happen when you build a kit......you learn how to fix the broken junk from china! And don't tell me you don't have room to build, I built my second kit on a coffee table in a motel room while working on the road.

    People want instant satisfaction, that's why they buy the junk ARF's from china.

    You made your own bed, now suck it up and quit whining.


    KaP2011
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  6. #31
    warbird_1's Avatar
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    RE: RANT: The

    AMEN Bratha !!
    Contest Director /Turbine pilot/ P-38 Brotherhood/Scratch Builders make their own Destiny

  7. #32

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    RE: RANT: The

    Original poster here. A lot of guys aren't getting the point. I am NOT knocking builders. I build. But ARF's are nice. They are a quick build and for the most part good flyers. They can be left as stock, or "kit bashed" to unrecognizable scaleness like my good friend Oberst did with his. And they can be quite rugged. Don't ask me how I know, but boy, do I ever know!

    I also know about ebay, and about the RCU for sale areas and have hit them up. I also know about Dubro and Williams Brothers. All good stuff. In fact, since GP can't/won't help me, I have a pair of Dubro wheels coming. They are the closest I could get to the original but they are about half inch smaller and 3 ounces heavier for the pair.

    I just think a company should do better by their customers with these situations.

    And yes, I DO expect a lot from a company I put my faith (not to mention money) in. I may not get what I expect, but that's not going to stop me from wanting a company to put customer service and product support front and center.
    Least useful things to a pilot- fuel not in your tank, runway behind you, altitude above you

  8. #33
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    RE: RANT: The


    ORIGINAL: GaryA


    ORIGINAL: Gizmo-RCU

    Think of the space it would take to have large numbers of slow selling items in stock forever? I know my space is limited, it's about business choices, if there is little or no profit why do it?
    Thats called good business sence in my book. We have to do the same thing in our business. Some things just have to be fabricated after they get too out dated in any form.

    And this warehouse that contains every part for every model made since 1955 would need to be how big? Or even every model since 2000? And model distributors pop up and go after five years or ten years. Manufacturers make a run (in China) for a US dealer/retailer and then it's on to the next model for a different US dealer/retailer. I'm not sure how large a runs is. 500 models? Then the excess is boxed up and shipped along with the complete kits. Inventory is expensive - damage, space, building upkeep, loss, etc. Airplane parts are bulky and fragile - the worst of all possibilities. So when the parts run out it's either another 500 models (of an obsolete design) or nothing.

    Perhaps we just need to stop buying based on price. Likely Ziroli or Fiberglass Specialties can come up with a duplicate of anything they've ever sold.

    Charlie P. (NY) "Gravity is weak but persistant".

    AMA 747089/IMAA 30723

  9. #34

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    RE: RANT: The


    ORIGINAL: Charlie P.

    You can strike back by building from plans. *Then you can just unroll and rebuild the part you need. *

    That will show 'em. *;-)

    Amazingly, you can even rebuild ARF components. **

    But to compare to similar prices items - go to J.C. Penny and tell them you want a replacement sleeve from the $300 suit you bought there in 2007.
    Exactly! As a matter of fact- anybody want a Great Planes Gee Bee R-2 ARF with Robart struts? It's for sale. I bought it during a 'weak' moment. Look in RCU's classified. I want to build one that will look so much better and have more scale fidelity.

  10. #35

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    RE: RANT: The

    So tell me what is a good alternative to (crap China) stuff you keep talking about.
    would you give me of some examples of local (made in America) stuff I can buy. I will be willing to pay 2 times more for a good product thats made here at home
    but it does not exist. Sure you may be some guys that sell plans or some custom builders but other then that not much else is there.

  11. #36

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    RE: RANT: The

    I am looking for a cowling for a H9 F6F Hellcat. Out of stock everywhere for months. The plane is still available.
    No point in paying the extra $ to get a Hangar 9 if the product support is not there.
    Might as well buy from China

  12. #37

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    RE: RANT: The

    I feel your pain, bought the GP Pitts last year at Perry swap meet and had a brown out, I want the GP Pitts back please. It's been
    My fav model for years. Too bad they stopped making it.
    Right seat gear puller...

  13. #38
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    RE: RANT: The

    I think a lot of people are guilty of something I have done in the past..

    I figure, I can buy it anytime.. So the product sits there with many people planning on buying it someday.. Then the second they quit making them there is a shortage of product, and a line of buyers.

    That GP DR1 is a nice ARF to trick out.

  14. #39

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    RE: RANT: The

    Stevens aeromodel(american company here in good ol co. usa. Scale wheels that look like they are supposed to are available on line as easily as finding the oem(if it exists)So i guess i should say easier. A lot are made in the usa. And lastly I agree with everyone who has said learn to build. Thats my rant. im out
    \"any crash you can walk away from is a good crash\" Launch pad Mcquack

  15. #40
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    RE: RANT: The


    ORIGINAL: Azzir325

    What is up with these big companies (specifically Great Planes and Hangar 9) who sell us these lovely planes then decide to ''discontinue'' them and leave us owners in the lurch for parts? You know, if you are going to discontinue a plane that's OK, but you can't just leave the thousands of people who BOUGHT THESE PLANES FROM YOU hanging out to dry! You OWE us some customer support, and well beyond the time it takes to sell off the spare parts you have on hand. We bought your products in good faith, and now you're hanging us out to dry.

    That's basically my rant. It has happened to me before, and recently I needed a wheel for my Great Planes Fokker Triplane 60 ARF. I want original equipment, but GP says I'm out of luck. My position is they sold the plane, they need to stock parts until there is ZERO call for them.

    Let's hear from anybody who has been in the same boat.
    Rick

    Oh yeah, and for the record, there are THREE particular ARF's that have been discontinued and should be UNDISCONTINUED and kept available. They are the 60 size Fokker D VII and Sopwith Camel by Hangar 9 and the aforementioned Great Planes DR 1 60. For ending the availability of these wonderful airplanes, I give these companies a GIGANTIC RASPBERRY and my undying contempt.
    I've got a GP DR1 if any of you guys are interested, local pu only - will not ship! Can be purchased BNF or will sell airframe only. Must be a reasonable price, I'm not giving it away. PM me if your interested. I'm moving up to a gasser. DG
    Experience is something you aquire after you need it!

  16. #41
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    RE: RANT: The

    Business is business. Anyone who forgets/neglects that will not make the proper "adjustments"

    Fabricate the parts you figure will get damaged or fail.

    I have copied many parts from composite parts cowls, spinners /vac form canopies, tires, wheels, headers, props,......ect except engine and motors for some of my arfs and original builds. Nothing really can be obsolete when one can fabricate/build.

    A handy money saving skill.

    Many online tutorials on how to do pretty much anything these days.

    Steve

  17. #42
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    RE: RANT: The

    I have not read most post. But, Perhaps we as modelers should boycott these mfgr's for about three months and send a message. Seriously, they need us more than we need them when it comes right down to it. The reality is there will be few people who actually  read these forums who would do it, but the concept is novel.   

  18. #43
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    RE: RANT: The

    I bet I have the oldest Hangar 9 plane in need of parts. I have an old Hangar 9 Cessna 40 ARF. They made a red version and a blue version. I have a complete Red Version. I bought a Blue one from a JACK WAGON on Ebay. He had shot it with BB holes and failed to mention it. I need an elevator that I can build, I bought a cowl that will need painted to match, but I have never located the front windshield which has a hole that is impossible to fix. I watch Ebay and RCU for years hoping to find one.

    Great thread.

  19. #44
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    RE: RANT: The


    ORIGINAL: warbird_1

    i keep saying it.... . people keep buying the chinese crap . they have no loyalty to anyone.
    Eh, which big name retailer is selling American ARF's?

    I'd love to know so I wouldn't have to purchase the Asian products.

    There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

  20. #45

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    RE: RANT: The

    What gets me is the non availability of parts in general. Many of the ARFs are released with limited parts availability. Some of the parts may never be available, even when the ARF is still in production.

    As to the 56-57 Chevy someone mentioned - - - GM sold off all the parts and tooling decades ago. Checker Cab used part of them until they ceased production.  In the 70's GM computerized the replacement parts system, and again, a large amount of parts were dropped.
    Actually, parts availability is not to bad if you look in the specialty markets.
    On the other hand, we have a 57 Caddy that is in need of an engine overhaul, and a replacement dash cover.  The dash cover is the version that has a plastic cover over expanded foam, and the foam turned to powder. There is a way to redo using a 57 Buick dash cover, since it was made over some sort of padding. Finding one of them is just as big a problem. Some engine parts are still around, but can be hard to find.
    GMs change from separate engines to corporate engines just about did in parts for the division unique engines.

  21. #46
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    RE: RANT: The


    ORIGINAL: SCALECRAFT

    Business is business. Anyone who forgets/neglects that will not make the proper "adjustments"

    Fabricate the parts you figure will get damaged or fail.

    I have copied many parts from composite parts cowls, spinners /vac form canopies, tires, wheels, headers, props,......ect except engine and motors for some of my arfs and original builds. Nothing really can be obsolete when one can fabricate/build.

    A handy money saving skill.

    Many online tutorials on how to do pretty much anything these days.

    Steve
    I'm with you, Steve. I frequently copy cowls to my favorite models and make plugs of canopies, trace out patterns of wing ribs and formerson paper before I build, etc. Even simply scanning ortracing the center rib of an ARF before you join the wing halves means that you at least likely have the proper airfoil that can be scaled down tosizeto replacea broken rib elsewhere in the wing.

    If it is a "favorite" ARF or kit plane, there are relatively quick and relatively easy solutions that don't require extensive skills for a measure of success,they will improve your repertoire of building skills, and release you from dependance on OEMs to stock these most commonly needed parts:
    1. Before you cut the flanges off of that canopy to fit the fuse, put a simple wooden frame around itto support it and fill it with cheap Plaster of Paris (or better yet IMHO Durham's Rock-hard Water Putty). Now you have an instant plug that anyone with a vacuum former can recreate new canopies for you. (Ask around, there's probably at least one member of your club that has one my club's got three. You can even find plans to successfully make your own on-line.)
    2. Keep the original crappy plastic cowl that came with your kit and use it as aninstant femalemold. Lay-uptwo layers of 3.5 - 4 oz. fiberglass inside of it and make a muchbetter,more durablefiberglass cowl. If it gets damaged, lay up another. Even an OEM'splastic cowl will hold upthroughmany layups. Ifa fiberglass cowl came with the kit,that can be tougher, as youhave to use it as a plug to make the femalemold first, but it is not as intimidating a task as it seems to so many of you. You just have to give it a try. CST Composite sales has excellent tutorials.http://www.cstsales.com/tutorials.htmlThat is how I learned how to get started with fabrication.

    Steve ("Scalecraft") has generously shared his vast knowledge and demonstrated many of his techniques in various theads on the Composites Fabrication forum (& others)over the years, as have many other very knowledgeable andhelpful modelers. I hope some of you will take advantage of the excellent free advice you can find there. It will save you from some of these most common parts supply issues and introduce you to a new aspect of modeling that you may really enjoy. If this interests you at all,I am self-taught through trial and error due to many of the same frustrations as you, and have also attempted to share much of what I learned,with the aim ofreducing the learning-curve for those new to this, on a thread called the Trinity Warbird Racer Build Thread, in the Scale Racing forum (complete with home-made vacuum former).http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9659845/tm.htm Perhaps it may help some of you, as well.
    WARNING: High-nitro fumes cause an unusual form of mental debilitation resulting in excess expenditures on racing airplanes.

  22. #47
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    RE: RANT: The


    ORIGINAL: B Shipp

    It would be interesting to know how many units are actually sold. I have to assume it all comes down to the mighty dollar. Do you think they really sold thousands? Is there a customer or business base to stock parts? Do you think they (the manufacture) actually have a "spares" BOM when they produce a new product? If the spares program is to just break apart new kits, that's a problem. I understand it would go a long way for customer loyalty, but is it really cost effective.
    More likely spares are parts left from a full kit that had defective components. Or parts left from a kit that had other parts taken for someone else's spares. But you are probably correct - they don't build parts just for spares.

    And please I ams sick and tired of this whole China is ruining us crap.People don't want to pay and arm and a leg for anything so they buy lower cost items. And even you guys are complaining about ARFs so obviously you, too, are into the instant gratification thing so you are also feeding the move to Chinese parts movement. If you really don't like it then buy and build kits!

  23. #48
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    RE: RANT: The

    Whether kits or arfs, none will be around forever. If you really like a design, buy more than one and warehouse it til it's needed. I have seen so many great designs come and go. It's just the nature of things. Never thought I would see the day a .40-size Stick kit would not be available, but that day passed years ago.

    I used to build, but the arfs spoiled me. Still having fun, though!
    AMA #77967/CD/LM

  24. #49
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    RE: RANT: The


    ORIGINAL: opjose


    ORIGINAL: THERCAV8R

    Well this isnt a rant and I am not sure of the law. But i remember that there use to be a law that if you produced a product and sold it to the public you had to by law servive it and provide spare parts for 10 years after production stopped. Doesn't seem to happen now even outside of the hobby. [][]
    Eh, unfortunately there is no such animal and from what I understand there never was....


    There is an example (sort of) in the firearms industry. A firearms manufacturer must make ammunition available for 10 years after a gun in a given caliber is discontinued. Example: The Remington 5mm RF Magnum. It only sold for about 3 years in the earlt '70s & Remington was the only manufacturer to chamber a rifle in that caliber. Ammunition was available from Remington until the mid '80s. The ammo has recently been revived by a few ammunition makers. I converted mine to centerfire several years ago so I could reload cartridges.
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  25. #50
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    RE: RANT: The

    I noticed that the "law" has been quoted here.

    So, who will put up the retainer $$ to force China provide parts until they are not needed.

    They don't even make safe baby products for God's sake (insert name of your God whoever/whatever it may be).

    They steal designs form Boeing, ect. Boeing doesn't (can't) fight them.

    The solution for our little toys are not outside of our own workshops. They are not cars or guns, ect, they are much much simpler.

    Or as mentioned before, since they are so well priced from what we used to pay, buy a spare. On some, I do.

    Dependency/need is a weakness. Independence is power.

    Anyway, good luck with this .

    Steve


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