tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

I feel for ya Desertlakesflying.....that used to be me....but hang in there things will get better timewise.....but evening time is available to build NOT fly

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

I used to work like that. I needed something to get my mind off work in the evenings. Can't fly every day, and TV?? As long as you can dedicate a place to build, where you don't have to pick everything up when your done every time you stop, you can finish a plane pretty easily if you force yourself to work on it for just 10-15 minutes a day! I rebuilt a full scale Tri-Pacer in my garage doing just that! Yes, there were days where I would spend several hours working on it, but often, they were the exception rather than the rule....

It IS very much about priorities....

NoOneFlysAtMyClub

My Feedback: (32)

People complain that they do not have time to build a kit or a plans built airplane. If you perform one action a day, however small it may be, you will, before you know it, have built a flying model. It may take quite some time, but the results will be rewarding. Not only will you have created something special, it will be unique at the flying field, and something people will ask questions about because it is not a run of the mill ARF!

skillet92

I build and assemble but don't really prefer either way. I own and fly what I like. I am in the military so you guys that say BS to the no time argument, try leaving your family for months on end and coming home and spending more time locked away building. I personally believe that some people don't have the time and some just don't want to be bothered, but either way what difference does it make to you and what you fly. There are afternoons that I get our field all to myself and I love it. We have builders and we have guys that could not build a paper airplane but all love to come out and we all have a good time. The hobby is about the people and enjoyment of flying, does it matter what they are flying?

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

WOW!! Just WOW !! With a good looking woman like that in the photo (clothes on or not) and you only see a plane??? You are in serious trouble.

Tommygun

My Feedback: (2)

Unfortunately, if it were not for the ARFs the hobby would already be dead. People just have so much more going on these days that it's not practical for many to build like they did back during the 1950's through the 80's. Today we have many more forms of entertainment, and obligations. People do work longer hours today, and when they get home, have to spend time with their families- not hours alone in the basement gluing and sanding wood sticks. I used to build, but don't have time for it now. And when I did build, the plane always came out heavy and crappy looking compared to the new ARFs you can buy today, plus it costs more money to build, and has poorer resale value! That doesn't make sense. If I have extra time, it will need to go towards advancing my education, not building toy planes. So thankfully the RTFs are here, or I'd already be done with the hobby- even an ARF is just too much to deal with these days. And even that isn't enough these days to keep the hobby alive it seems- I'm the only one I know of that flies R/C planes, even with all the great RTFs out there now.

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

I try and get a couple hours a week building ,sometimes i do but most times in the summer i dont. So it takes me a year to build a plane that should take a couple months to build and i dont care its just fun to build even a few hours than not build at all.On some of you guys reasoning because we work so much maybe we can cut out some after hour fun with our girlfriends or wives:-) ,not mow our lawn or change oil in our cars or motorcycles. Hey how about no air in the tires or lets not put oil in our cars and bikes at all. There is time to build if you make it just like we get everything else done we have no time for. joe

Charlie P.

I enjoy driving my car but it came ready to drive. ;-)

I have a little UMX Radian that weighs 1.5 oz and is a real joy to fly. I could never build as light and retain those motor/sailplane traits.

I like to build. I like ARFs. I like foamies. I like gasoline, glow, electric.

Why does it have to be you can't stick with what you like and leave the rest to just enjoy their interests?

ARFs haven't degraded the hobby, Maybe it just turns out that all pilots aren't necessarily builders. One of the best pilots I know never built a model. He only flies electric ARFs but flies three times a day year round. Embrace the happy option that you can do as you like. Bulid away. I have two on the benches right now but will probably buy an ARF before they are completed. I fact . . . I guarantee that will be the case.

ameyam

Building is difficult when you don't have space. When I built my US40+, I did that over a holiday weekend where I got 4 days in a row. Otherwise in my one-room apartment, you pick up everything at the end of the day. Even with just re-covering an ARF (am recovering an old Phoenix Accipiter 90, same as the Venus 90, just now), the room becomes a workshop and my family has to really keep patience with me on the weekends. Even servicing broken parts is a problem. It also means that I cant pickup on the intricacies of building and cant work with fibreglass or CF too much. You guys over in the States, where the house has a garage which can be turned into a workshop, are lucky in that regard

Ameyam

CafeenMan

I know how that is. When you don't have a decent space, attempting to build is more frustrating than rewarding. It's important enough to me that I would never live in a place where I couldn't build.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

The population of my local area has tripled in the past 25 years but some local flying fields have either shut down or else have very little activity....and not due to zoning issues, but from a lack of interest.
Apparently, many of the guys who used to fly at these fields HAVE LEFT THE REST TO JUST ENJOY THEIR OWN INTERESTS, but that trend continued...and it continued....and it continued some more.
If interest in this hobby was consistent with the growth in our local population, I should have seen an increase in the amount of RC aviation activity, but instead I've seen a decline. A dramatic decline, even though it has never been easier to get a plane safely into the air than ever before.
It's also relatively less expensive than ever before.

Indiomike

My Feedback: (5)

I've read part but not all of this thread. Maybe my thinking has been stated or maybe not. Here is what I think.

I see a pattern of opinion that everything done today is much easier than it was years ago. Remember when people said they had to walk 4 miles to school everyday through the snow and now people have it so easy in riding the bus. Or how about when someone says they mowed lawns for 25 cents in their day. Who would do that now?

Progress makes things easier as time goes on. I can't help but think there is some resentment on the part of those who used to do things that are done much easier today. Some people today get huffy because what took them many hours to accomplish can not be done in a fraction of the time.

I am 66. I've built many kits over the years and it's real easy to get an attitude about how easy ARF's are compared to the skill and time involvement that was required many years ago. I'm just as guilty of having a superior attitude over those who have never built a plane before. And the guys who were doing things way before my time would say I don't know diddly squat about how difficult things were.

It's all progress and evolution. I used to mow yards for 25 cents and it was a push mower to boot. No fancy gas engine mower. Didn't have to walk to school through the snow because it doesn't ever snow where I live. So what I'm saying is we often tend to think it was harder to accomplish and required more skills to do something years ago as it does today. Maybe there is a bit of resentment on how much easier things have become wether it's RC related or almost any other venue.

I do not buy the argument that people say they simply don't have time to build. Really? If it is something you enjoy, you will make time to do it wether it is building a model plane or anything else. We all make time for pursuing what interests us.

IMHO

chuckk2

I'd have to say that the availability of decent and not too expensive RTFs and ARFs has the potential to allow more of the "younger set" to become interested in what will be a dieing hobby without them.

foodstick

I guess to me I do miss when every plane at the field was unique. Good, bad and UGLY... they all had personality of the builder or the history of the planes success and failures .

Granpooba

My Feedback: (5)

Well, in my lifetime, I've seen a lot better looking woman than in this pic. But that does not mean I am not in serious trouble. Actually some troubles in life tend to spice up ones life.

The serious trouble that I see here is that this thread is still continuing. I thought it got burned out quite awhile ago.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It might have burned itself out, but some guys keep chiming in.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

AMEN..!
I especially loved to see the individual contributions made to competition model design, before that eventually became an ARF COOKIE CUTTER deal as well.
Control line combat used to be just as much fun to fly as it was to walk through the pits and talk to the designer / builder / pilots about their latest creations.
I always showed up to these events with a pencil, ruler and clipboard to sketch the latest design ideas and also rummaged through the trash cans full of crashed models to glean information that way as well.
At the height of this event's popularity we used to draw 80 to 100 contestants for an all weekend contest and there would be some guys flying a common, proven design, but there was never a lack of "Top Secret" new stuff getting rolled out to gawk at. Regardless of the design's origin, 99% of the flyers built their own models while still managing to raise their families, work 50 hour weeks, keep the car washed, grass mowed, etc.
Once the event evolved to ARFs from Russia and RTR Nelson combat engines, much of the original charm was lost. The event became "serious [and more expensive] business" and participation has dwindled to a tiny fraction of what it once was.

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

Yep lets not give them a airplane kit to build that gives them pleny of more time to play war games on their X- Box . Just saying ! I think a foam arf to get them started but get them a kit or even build cheap planes out of dollar tree foam with them. A German free cartoon plane plan called the Slowly and it can fly at a slow walk . Me and my grandkids built a couple of these and they have a blast flying them .It takes 2 dollars worfh of foam gorrila glue and cheap servos and motors . joe

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

I guess I'll just chime in on this. Overall, I think ARFs do more good than harm overall. I'm almost 35 and started 3 years ago. My dad was a pilot (and firefighter) and I solo'd at 17. I ended up focusing on becoming a firefighter and put flying to the side. After becoming a firefighter and starting a family, being a pilot as a second profession didn't appeal to me. Anyway, that's all beside the point. As a young boy (8-10) my dad had a few acquaintances that built and flew RC planes. When I was young we had gone to one of their homes and he had his garage filled with planes and some that were under construction, and we also went out to a field when they were flying. I always wanted to get into it, but my dad didn't have enough interest and we did other stuff like raced motocross.

About 8 years ago, my sisters and I went in and bought him a Thunder Tiger RTF trainer. He never flew it. So, when I was cleaning out my moms garage (my parents had separated) I ran across the box. I figured since he hadn't even opened the box, I was going to be the one to have to get this thing in the air. So it started from there. I did a little research, found a local club and those guys were very helpful and got me flying. I immediately ordered Realflight and did a lot of flying before doing anymore real life flying so that I had the best possible chance of successfully becoming a competent RC pilot. After that, I was hooked.

I've yet to do a kit build, but would like to (and most likely will). I'm not going to say I DON'T have the time to build a plane because I do. But, I don't have enough free time that I would like to dedicate to that right now (like someone said, I don't have the "incentive" or strong drive). What I personally love about the hobby is the flying. Some guys like building more than flying, and some like flying more than building. I'm obviously the latter.

I can confidently say that the availability of affordable ARFs is the only reason I am apart of this great hobby. Having all the busy things in life like others have, I probably wouldn't have tried my hand at building a kit and then learning to fly. I think many people who started out doing kits or scratch builds were introduced by their father or someone close to them who helped them along the way. It seems pretty intimidating for someone with no experience and nobody to help them along to jump into something like that.

For the guys that love to build, I really can appreciate it. They build some amazing stuff. Real craftsmen. Being pretty handy myself, I can understand what goes into their creations. I've been into cars in the past and done all of my own work, as well as doing a lot of home gunsmith projects. There are a few guys in my club who love to build as well as assemble ARFs, and they even do some for their buddies because they like it so much. Those types of guys go to the field and may fly, or may not. Mostly, they like to hang out and socialize, and that's perfectly cool. If I were to look down on them because they don't fly, or don't fly well would be just like someone looking down on me for not building what I'm flying. They are just getting out of the house and having fun...

I'm sure the availability and ease of assembly of ARFs has briefly brought a good number of goobers into the hobby who may have a negative impact on the sport by flying dangerously and having a generally poor demeanor. On the other hand, I think this is outweighed by the people that have been able to get into a hobby that they grow to love and continue to do it for a long time.

As for saying that guys who buy ARFs dont care about their equipment or planes is a little far stretching. I don't have much money to spend on hobbies, so when I can make it work to get a new plane, I do take very good care of them. It's not a matter of pride for what I've created (because I didn't create it), it's simply pride of ownership that I have for my planes, just like I have for anything that I have spent my hard earned money on. Again, some guys like to take pride in something they have built, and some take pride of the flying skills they have worked very hard to build. And some have both.

Anyway, I'd say that as long as ARFs are making it easier for people to get into our hobby, the better. Our rights to our hobby are under attack all the time. So more voices (and money going into the AMA, who is our main voice as well as the businesses that provide the materials and equipment) we have, the better our chances to sustain our hobby. Luckily, my club has something like 40 members (not all fly much, but still give their money) and we seem to grow by 2-4 members a year. 95% of the planes at my club are ARFs of some kind, and we are all having lots of fun, and I think that should be the main focus. There are also 3 other clubs near by.

So, I love the flying and I'm glad that even though some other guys prefer the building, I'm glad they don't look down on me because I like to fly more than I build. That wouldn't be a very welcoming feeling, and may take the enjoyment out of it for some guys if that were the case.

Jeremy

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

If I was borne into this hobby just 3 years ago, I wouldn't miss the days when showing up at the field with a brand new, original plane was part of the fun, either.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

So you're "that"guy. I got it. I won't be wasting any more of my time here...

I'll just be out having FUN flying.

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

In reply to mach2 Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't you contradicted yourself.

Charlie P.

We just added three members to our club in the past two months. This past weekend we had an IMAA Fun-Fly and there were four of the Carbon Z Cub foam IMAA size ARFs that put in dozens of flights. Four more CZC were sold at the event by a vendor (two with the optional floats) and one of those was purchased by me after a (brave) pilot friend let me fly his. What a performer!

Our club is thriving (34 members and 67 registered pilots at the Fun Fly) and we appreciate the kit builts and scale beauties but also embrace the flying experience offerred by ARFs.

I don't see a downside to AFRs. Avoid them if you don't like them - but I can't build as well as what I can now buy. Lighter flies berre and an 85" foam Cub seems to be pretty darned fun to fly!

Three flat racetrack-circuits with a beautifully detailed WWI or WWII warbird is nice, but a rolling loop and inverted flat spin with an ARF Super Sportster is better IMHO.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Typo fixed. My bad. Cheers...

H5606

This is the most interesting thread under this title to date for me. I agree with the OP. I just had to bump this to the top: the only valuable thing ARF's have done for me is teach me how to hoard... I've got ARF's that are almost ready to fly - for decades - hey wait a minute, aren't ARF's (A)lmost (R)eady to (F)ly? I should be able to get one done for next weekend, but I probably won't... Why? Because I'm too busy watching crap on T.V. or I need a nap - or I'd rather complain here.

As I sit here downing shots of fine, Zubrowka Polish vodka I can say, "Yeah, I've seen and flown other's ARF Carbon Z Cubs and big deal, they fly great but what's the point? What I did here was finish a design I copied from a colleague... I would like to give credit where credit is due and I believe it may be a John Hunton design that appeared in Model Aviation - please correct me if I'm wrong. I took some rough measurements off this colleague's to create my own using store bought balsa, ply, and basswood from Michael's. The engine comes from the sellout at Estes a few years ago and I added a tank from Cox International.

It's a culmination of all the stuff I've learned during nearly a half-century of aeromodelling: selecting wood, beveling ply and basswood, adding my own personality to wing, verticals, and stab tips, putting on a quick finish to get it flying, hinging 1/8" balsa using current technology, modifying an engine, etc. I first flew it at the R/C club meeting at the beginning of the month when we had a TFR in effect in the Washington D.C. metropolitan area and Its the most fun I've had in a long time getting dizzy. BTW, I didn't even have to charge any batteries and it went together faster and was more gratifying than any of my ARF's... The other pictures are of my ability acquired in part through ARF's to hoard.

It may not be much to look at but, God, I'm proud of them: (both the C/L model and hoarding of ARF's)...