New Hanger 9 Carbon Cub
05-14-2016, 06:26 AM
#26
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Thanks Larry , I always enjoy and appreciate your encouragement and input and definitely keep us up to date on your Phoenix Cub from Hell ( I must be a real nasty bugger cause that actually made me laugh ) I know what you mean . When there done you love them warts and all .
05-15-2016, 07:03 PM
#27
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bikerbc, OK biker you asked me to keep you up to date on the "Cub from hell" (Phoenix Super Cub), so here goes. Sit back and grab a cup of coffee because I may be a bit long winded with this.
I did the maiden flight on it today and the quick cut to the chase story is that it was a successful maiden flight with no crash or damage. However, it was not as smooth and easy pre flight and in the air flight as I normally have. To use your term ( and I like that description so I have adopted it) there were a few "warts" to be addressed. First, my normal procedure with a new model is to test run the engine in the plane and do a taxi test in my yard and driveway to fix any engine running or idling issues, test the ground steering and see that the plane is ready for a high speed takeoff run. For various reasons that didn't happen and I took the totally unrun and untested plane to the field. The vintage (pre surpass) O.S. 120 four stroke had been run on my test stand before being installed in the Super Cub so I knew it was a "running" engine and I was ready to fix any issues that might come up in my at the field taxi test. The O.S. fired right up but wouldn't come close to holding an idle. My copilot and flying friend Ty and I reset the DX-7 throttle travel so we had a good idle but several times when we set the Cub out to Taxi test it the engine would quit. The engine had a brand new "F" plug so we were at a loss. It needled good, the idle was plenty high, yet it quit. We found that with leaving the glo starter on the plug it didn't quit (normal sign of a bad glo plug). So for the taxi test we left the glo starter on the plug dangling out the side of the cowl. On the ground the plane wouldn't turn left at all and not a whole lot to the right. All control movements were set up to the specs in the instructions. No matter, we then went back into the DX-7 TX and jacked the rudder movement up to 140 or 150 %. Now it would turn left somewhat and to the right pretty good. It had enough left action to now keep the plane in a straight line for a mock takeoff run. Throttle up and away we go, the tail comes up and continues to come up even with full up elevator....NOSE OVER ! No damage, back to the DX-7 and jack up the elevator travel, way up, so we can see lots of elevator travel. Ty and I both fly a lot of Cubs so I was fine with throwing in a lot of elevator even if it made the plane touchy on pitch (so much for setting it up by the instruction book). Another takeoff run, still with the glo starter dangling out the side of the cowl, and I can now steer it with the tail down, have pitch control with the tail up and it feels like it should fly so I do what any RC flyer would do......keep the throttle wide open and pull back on the elevator stick when the speeds seems good. LIFT OFF, we have LIFT OFF....it flys, even with the glo starter still in the dangling mode. I get some altitude and we began to trim it out. I have to fly it manually as it's WAY out of trim, wants to dive and roll a bit to the right. Copilot Ty starts to feed in lots of up elevator trim as I man the sticks to keep the plane in the air (we work well together, he's a good flyer). Still not near enough so lots more up elevator trim is put in and it now close so we move to the right roll with a fair amount of left aileron on a little rudder thrown in for good measure. I'am still on the sticks and Ty is doing the trim per my request. It takes two guys to fly a Cub doesn't it. It did for this one. So now it's trimmed pretty good, hands off for little bit, The glo starter still dangling out the cowl, and the old O.S. four stroke humming along. Been running close to WOT up to this point so I throttle back to a more normal scale Cub flying setting and the "white knuckling" is over. It flys good (now), and looks marvelous in the air. Oh BTY, did I mention that it's a another windy day here in West Georgia? Well it is, but no matter we fly and even test fly in the wind. Time to think about landing this thing. I drop down in altitude and set up for a landing pass, no flaps used, and the Phoenix Super Cub is nice and stable on final, good position control, but the idle even all the way down is still a little high. I think it will be OK and continue the final approach with a nice main wheels touchdown, It's starting to nose over so I pull up elevator to plant the tail...too much up elevator with the high engine idle gets it back off the ground a foot or so, keeping flying it on the sticks gets a nice second and final touchdown. A somewhat ragged but successful maiden flight. This ones done for the day, back to the shop with the plane in one piece to tweek on the issues encountered and I'll bring it back next flying day. Now, aside from the problems caused by not having taxi tested the plane at home before bring it to the field, I have to conclude that the set up throws in the instruction book are way to small, and the suggested C/G setting is also a little too far forward (nose heavy). The book calls for 3.75" (about 27% of MAC) on the C/G and mine came in with no ballast at 4.0" behind the LE (about 30% of MAC) and that's the way I flew it (a little more tail heavy then the spec). I think it could be even set a little bit more tail heavy, another % or two. Tomorrow in post flight I will measure just what amount of control movement we put in to make it flyable and if anyone is interested, post what those numbers are for a better starting point for others putting one of these 91" Phoenix Super Cubs together. With final tweeking this will be a good Cub. BTY it came in with a RTF weight (dry) of 14.2 lbs, the specs say it will weigh 10-11 lbs. Not much accurate info in that book.
I did the maiden flight on it today and the quick cut to the chase story is that it was a successful maiden flight with no crash or damage. However, it was not as smooth and easy pre flight and in the air flight as I normally have. To use your term ( and I like that description so I have adopted it) there were a few "warts" to be addressed. First, my normal procedure with a new model is to test run the engine in the plane and do a taxi test in my yard and driveway to fix any engine running or idling issues, test the ground steering and see that the plane is ready for a high speed takeoff run. For various reasons that didn't happen and I took the totally unrun and untested plane to the field. The vintage (pre surpass) O.S. 120 four stroke had been run on my test stand before being installed in the Super Cub so I knew it was a "running" engine and I was ready to fix any issues that might come up in my at the field taxi test. The O.S. fired right up but wouldn't come close to holding an idle. My copilot and flying friend Ty and I reset the DX-7 throttle travel so we had a good idle but several times when we set the Cub out to Taxi test it the engine would quit. The engine had a brand new "F" plug so we were at a loss. It needled good, the idle was plenty high, yet it quit. We found that with leaving the glo starter on the plug it didn't quit (normal sign of a bad glo plug). So for the taxi test we left the glo starter on the plug dangling out the side of the cowl. On the ground the plane wouldn't turn left at all and not a whole lot to the right. All control movements were set up to the specs in the instructions. No matter, we then went back into the DX-7 TX and jacked the rudder movement up to 140 or 150 %. Now it would turn left somewhat and to the right pretty good. It had enough left action to now keep the plane in a straight line for a mock takeoff run. Throttle up and away we go, the tail comes up and continues to come up even with full up elevator....NOSE OVER ! No damage, back to the DX-7 and jack up the elevator travel, way up, so we can see lots of elevator travel. Ty and I both fly a lot of Cubs so I was fine with throwing in a lot of elevator even if it made the plane touchy on pitch (so much for setting it up by the instruction book). Another takeoff run, still with the glo starter dangling out the side of the cowl, and I can now steer it with the tail down, have pitch control with the tail up and it feels like it should fly so I do what any RC flyer would do......keep the throttle wide open and pull back on the elevator stick when the speeds seems good. LIFT OFF, we have LIFT OFF....it flys, even with the glo starter still in the dangling mode. I get some altitude and we began to trim it out. I have to fly it manually as it's WAY out of trim, wants to dive and roll a bit to the right. Copilot Ty starts to feed in lots of up elevator trim as I man the sticks to keep the plane in the air (we work well together, he's a good flyer). Still not near enough so lots more up elevator trim is put in and it now close so we move to the right roll with a fair amount of left aileron on a little rudder thrown in for good measure. I'am still on the sticks and Ty is doing the trim per my request. It takes two guys to fly a Cub doesn't it. It did for this one. So now it's trimmed pretty good, hands off for little bit, The glo starter still dangling out the cowl, and the old O.S. four stroke humming along. Been running close to WOT up to this point so I throttle back to a more normal scale Cub flying setting and the "white knuckling" is over. It flys good (now), and looks marvelous in the air. Oh BTY, did I mention that it's a another windy day here in West Georgia? Well it is, but no matter we fly and even test fly in the wind. Time to think about landing this thing. I drop down in altitude and set up for a landing pass, no flaps used, and the Phoenix Super Cub is nice and stable on final, good position control, but the idle even all the way down is still a little high. I think it will be OK and continue the final approach with a nice main wheels touchdown, It's starting to nose over so I pull up elevator to plant the tail...too much up elevator with the high engine idle gets it back off the ground a foot or so, keeping flying it on the sticks gets a nice second and final touchdown. A somewhat ragged but successful maiden flight. This ones done for the day, back to the shop with the plane in one piece to tweek on the issues encountered and I'll bring it back next flying day. Now, aside from the problems caused by not having taxi tested the plane at home before bring it to the field, I have to conclude that the set up throws in the instruction book are way to small, and the suggested C/G setting is also a little too far forward (nose heavy). The book calls for 3.75" (about 27% of MAC) on the C/G and mine came in with no ballast at 4.0" behind the LE (about 30% of MAC) and that's the way I flew it (a little more tail heavy then the spec). I think it could be even set a little bit more tail heavy, another % or two. Tomorrow in post flight I will measure just what amount of control movement we put in to make it flyable and if anyone is interested, post what those numbers are for a better starting point for others putting one of these 91" Phoenix Super Cubs together. With final tweeking this will be a good Cub. BTY it came in with a RTF weight (dry) of 14.2 lbs, the specs say it will weigh 10-11 lbs. Not much accurate info in that book.
Last edited by 52larry52; 05-15-2016 at 07:16 PM.
05-31-2016, 10:47 AM
#28
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bikerbc, Well it was 2 weeks ago I did the "wart filled" maiden flight of the Phoenix Super Cub. Last Sunday (our group normally flys on Sun.) we had 21 MPH winds with gusts over 30 MPH, but we still flew, just no Cubs and no test flights. This weekend our group (West Georgia R/C Flyers) voted to fly on Monday, our Memorial Day holiday (yesterday) and I am pleased to report that the warts are all gone and the Phoenix Super Cub did indeed fly "super". In the shop I had addressed all the little nagging issues, reset all the set ups, and another new O.S."F" glo plug fixed the need to fly with the glo igniter dangling out the side of the plane . What a sweet flying Cub...looks great too if I must say so myself. This time it required only a couple of elevator and aileron trim clicks to fly hands off. No issues at all, just an enjoyable stress free scale flight. Earlier in the day I had flown both my 1/5 th and my 1/4 scale Hanger-9 J-3 Cubs so I had a direct comparison to two of my other good Cubs. It is right up there with them, It's a keeper! The "Cub from hell" is now "a hell of a good Cub". Here are the control throw specs that I successfully flew the Phoenix Super Cub with yesterday and would recommend to anyone setting one of these up ........Elevators 27 mm up and down; ailerons 24 mm up and down; rudder 30 mm left and right; flaps two steps 8 mm and 27 mm. I didn't use the flaps yesterday so those specs may require a change. Bikerbc, I hope your Carbon Cub issues can also be overcome with a fine flying Cub coming out of it. Stick with it !
. What a sweet flying Cub...looks great too if I must say so myself. This time it required only a couple of elevator and aileron trim clicks to fly hands off. No issues at all, just an enjoyable stress free scale flight. Earlier in the day I had flown both my 1/5 th and my 1/4 scale Hanger-9 J-3 Cubs so I had a direct comparison to two of my other good Cubs. It is right up there with them, It's a keeper! The "Cub from hell" is now "a hell of a good Cub". Here are the control throw specs that I successfully flew the Phoenix Super Cub with yesterday and would recommend to anyone setting one of these up ........Elevators 27 mm up and down; ailerons 24 mm up and down; rudder 30 mm left and right; flaps two steps 8 mm and 27 mm. I didn't use the flaps yesterday so those specs may require a change. Bikerbc, I hope your Carbon Cub issues can also be overcome with a fine flying Cub coming out of it. Stick with it !
Last edited by 52larry52; 05-31-2016 at 10:57 AM.
06-01-2016, 05:55 PM
#29
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Congratulations Larry that is great news . Mine is still on backorder . If I hadn't already paid I would back out for sure . Believe it or not I actually had a dream about your Cub ,more of a nightmare actually , I became my Cub , I couldn't get it back on the ground , it was still in the air when I woke up sweating . I was the weirdest flying thing with stuff hanging off it that kept me from being able to get close to the ground . It looked like a pregnant guppy with whiskers hanging down off it . I am so glad that you got the bugs worked out and that it is a great flying Cub just as Cubs should be . Now I should be able to sleep .
06-01-2016, 06:34 PM
#30
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bikerbc, Sorry man, I didn't mean to give you nightmares over this! 
You say it "looked like a pregnant guppy with whiskers hanging down off it", but did it have "warts"? That's the question, Warts or no warts? On a serious thought.....If the gas engine of your choice won't fit in the Carbon Cub cowl and still look OK, why not reprogram your mind to something like a Saito or O.S. four stroke maybe in the 120 size area. You know you can't beat a good four stroke in any Cub for scale realism. Don't beat yourself up trying to shoehorn in an engine that won't fit, go with the flow...."smooth and easy". Just a thought.
You say it "looked like a pregnant guppy with whiskers hanging down off it", but did it have "warts"? That's the question, Warts or no warts? On a serious thought.....If the gas engine of your choice won't fit in the Carbon Cub cowl and still look OK, why not reprogram your mind to something like a Saito or O.S. four stroke maybe in the 120 size area. You know you can't beat a good four stroke in any Cub for scale realism. Don't beat yourself up trying to shoehorn in an engine that won't fit, go with the flow...."smooth and easy". Just a thought.
06-13-2016, 07:51 PM
#31
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bikerbc, Just an update on the airplane formerly known as the "Cub from hell". OK, I gonna brag a little.......this past weekend the Phoenix Super Cub, now "wartless", was taken to and flown at the Dekalb R C Flyers "Big Bird" fly in event and was honored with the "Pilot's Choice" 1st place trophy. I am honored and not too humbled to be selected by my fellow R C flyers. The Dekalb R C Flyers are located in Fort Payne, Alabama and a few photos of the Super Cub are on their web site in the 2016 Big bird event media report. Dekalb R C Flyers are a great bunch of guys, and gals, with a very nice R C field. I wish I lived closer to them so I could justify joining. I'am 2 hours away and that's just too far to go except for special events. Anyone in the North Alabama area looking for a club should check them out. So biker, did you receive your carbon Cub yet and what do you think of it? Inquiring minds want to know !
to be selected by my fellow R C flyers. The Dekalb R C Flyers are located in Fort Payne, Alabama and a few photos of the Super Cub are on their web site in the 2016 Big bird event media report. Dekalb R C Flyers are a great bunch of guys, and gals, with a very nice R C field. I wish I lived closer to them so I could justify joining. I'am 2 hours away and that's just too far to go except for special events. Anyone in the North Alabama area looking for a club should check them out. So biker, did you receive your carbon Cub yet and what do you think of it? Inquiring minds want to know !
Last edited by 52larry52; 06-13-2016 at 08:50 PM. Reason: spelling error
06-14-2016, 04:26 AM
#32
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Wow Larry Congratulations that's fantastic news . You made a silk purse , I hope to see a pic or two some day .. Mine is still on backorder .
06-15-2016, 09:22 AM
#33
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Well wonder of wonders my Cub has arrived and is waiting for me at the hobby shop . That is the longest I have waited for an ARF . I usually give up and get interested in something else . Larry you helped keep me on track this time . I really enjoyed following your struggles with such a wonderful outcome . I think mine will be a winter project now . I still have my PA18 to finish . I also have a Hanger 9 40 sized Cub that I won a few yrs ago that has never been out of the box .I think its 1/5 scale . I have a set of floats for it too , I will use it to replace my GP fabric covered Cub if I ever lose it . I really love that one . I even bought Robart gear for it . You can't have too many Cubs.. You can't have enough Canadian dollars to pay for them anyway
06-15-2016, 08:11 PM
#34
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bikerbc, Glad to hear the backorder torture is over. Smart move to make it a winter project and finish up what you have already started, although that gives you plenty of chances for sleepless nights trying to decide what you will power the Carbon Cub with. Aha, the power of suggestion, here comes those nightmares again!
. Aha, the power of suggestion, here comes those nightmares again!
07-15-2016, 10:14 AM
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I am wondering if any of the new Carbon Cub owners have installed the 1/5 scale float set yet . I have been debating buying a set but am not sure I want them if they are just a sized down version of the 1/4 scale set . I have found the 1/4 scale set to be pretty fragile . I really like the rigging and I like how they look but they are like egg shells .
07-19-2016, 01:17 PM
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Interesting. I've been wanting to order one, but H9's website has been listing it as "Available in June", then "Available in July", then "Available late July"...well, late July is here and now that note has disappeared. But if you click through to the Horizon order page, it's still showing "Backorder". Are they actually being shipped?
07-25-2016, 06:11 PM
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OK, looks as if H9 has answered the question for me: they've updated their caption to "Due mid-September". Either people are buying this thing in amazing quantities, or H9 just isn't really making it...
08-03-2016, 07:15 AM
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08-03-2016, 04:02 PM
#39
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Thanks for the video. Boy that plane looks awesome on the floats. That makes me want one but I am trying to not buy anymore planes as I've got 16 in my stash waiting to be built, rebuilt, finished, or new assembled. I hope bikerbc watches that video and gets inspired on his Carbon Cub.
08-04-2016, 03:59 PM
#40
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Well, back to the Carbon Cub. Wing assembly is pretty straight forward, just make sure that your servos have the long single arm horn. You will need two 12 inch extensions for the ailerons. You can mount the struts, just leave the jury struts loose until you do the final assembly.
The engine/tank pod. The tank with the kit is small, only 7 3/4 oz. I went with a DuBro S-10 for two reasons; size (of course) and it still fits without moving the cg too far to the rear and the second and main reason was to give the pick-up fuel line a little more flexibility. With the short tank, the clunk wouldn't flex enough to get to the bottom of the fuel tank, and then wouldn't pick up if inverted flight was tried. The longer tank gave me a little more line so I could use the recommended filter/clunk (EVOA 121), as I didn't have the DuBro heavy clunk. The engine/tank pod is a nice idea; it sure gets tight in there. That brings me to one of my pet peeves; that is airplanes that are designed around a specific engine. I had the DLE20RA, and it would have needed a little surgery around the cowl area, but it probably would have worked, but I decided to go with the factory set-up. Now, I have everything temporarily mounted and I go to mount the cowl. CRAP! The recommended pitts muffler (EVOM8) still hits the cowl! Now I have to do some fitting and cutting. Certain portions of the muffler can are still going to protrude. I'm also concerned if she will have enough air flow for cooling. I'm going to cover the intake on the port side and open up the fake vents on both sides and maybe more of the bottom. This thing had better be the best flying Cub in my fleet or I'm really going to be ticked. I think I should have stayed with the DLE.
The engine/tank pod. The tank with the kit is small, only 7 3/4 oz. I went with a DuBro S-10 for two reasons; size (of course) and it still fits without moving the cg too far to the rear and the second and main reason was to give the pick-up fuel line a little more flexibility. With the short tank, the clunk wouldn't flex enough to get to the bottom of the fuel tank, and then wouldn't pick up if inverted flight was tried. The longer tank gave me a little more line so I could use the recommended filter/clunk (EVOA 121), as I didn't have the DuBro heavy clunk. The engine/tank pod is a nice idea; it sure gets tight in there. That brings me to one of my pet peeves; that is airplanes that are designed around a specific engine. I had the DLE20RA, and it would have needed a little surgery around the cowl area, but it probably would have worked, but I decided to go with the factory set-up. Now, I have everything temporarily mounted and I go to mount the cowl. CRAP! The recommended pitts muffler (EVOM8) still hits the cowl! Now I have to do some fitting and cutting. Certain portions of the muffler can are still going to protrude. I'm also concerned if she will have enough air flow for cooling. I'm going to cover the intake on the port side and open up the fake vents on both sides and maybe more of the bottom. This thing had better be the best flying Cub in my fleet or I'm really going to be ticked. I think I should have stayed with the DLE.
08-07-2016, 10:40 AM
#41
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UPDATE!! Wings; You will need separate channels (or be able to reverse your servo) for the flaps, or add a servo reverser. Also, when I removed the muffler to attach the cowl, I also found that the front of the carb and the barrel for the needle valve also hit the cowl. What I think I'll end up doing is moving the whole engine back on the mounts about 3/8 of an inch (or so) and make up a hub-to-prop spacer to get everything to fit without butchering up the cowl. Now I know why I haven't seen one of these fly with the 15cc in person! I think it was designed for elec power and someone said "hey, that new EVO 15 ought to fit just right".
08-08-2016, 05:49 AM
#45
Dave
08-10-2016, 12:15 PM
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I fitted a Saito 100t in my Carbon Cub. It's under powered if you're wanting a hot rod aerobat, but totally suited for scale looks and sound. It fits beautifully, nothing showing outside the cowl except the needles. The wait for delivery was worth it.
08-15-2016, 03:47 PM
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I went back and looked at my wings again, and then checked the manual again, figuring maybe I missed something. Nope, mine would only go in one way; and with the horn epoxied into the wing, it would only go in one way.
BTW; I removed the stock motor mount and put on the Hangar 9 metal motor mounts so I could move the engine to fit. Had to redrill the firewall, but it was okay. I also removed the fuel tank pod and will mount the tank in the conventional way. I can stuff the ignition module down the left side. After moving the engine back, everything will clear the cowl (except the needle). I would recommend the Bisson muffler instead of the big and bulky Evo muffler. It will give a little more room for the hot air to escape. I also opened up the fake vents on both sides, for air-flow.
Has anyone actually flown this Cub with a gas engine???? If all this fails, I will go glow.
BTW; I removed the stock motor mount and put on the Hangar 9 metal motor mounts so I could move the engine to fit. Had to redrill the firewall, but it was okay. I also removed the fuel tank pod and will mount the tank in the conventional way. I can stuff the ignition module down the left side. After moving the engine back, everything will clear the cowl (except the needle). I would recommend the Bisson muffler instead of the big and bulky Evo muffler. It will give a little more room for the hot air to escape. I also opened up the fake vents on both sides, for air-flow.
Has anyone actually flown this Cub with a gas engine???? If all this fails, I will go glow.
10-04-2016, 08:43 AM
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Well, I emailed Horizon in July and they said to expect it mid-September. Here we are in October, and still in backorder status...wonder if it has some kind of serious design problem.