G.P.

My Feedback: (1)

What sort of rpm are you getting on yours (elevation, prop, etc)? I tried evrything that you have, with several different fuel line setups (uniflow, standard, large tubing, etc) and I could get it to run pretty consistently, but it had to be so rich that the rpm's were over a thousand low compared to what I can get with a pump. That made the difference between just hovering at full throttle, and pulling out from a hover at full throttle.

If I leaned it out to get the rpm's back up it would quit 50% of the time during violent manuevers (blenders, consecutive waterfalls, knife edge spins, lumcheveks, etc). Are you flying pattern or 3D type stuff with your Extra?

I'm not saying you're wrong because your setup obviously works for you. I'm just intrigued what the difference between our setups or flying styles could be because I wasted two summers, with two seperate 1.60's, before I pumped mine and got my rpm's up to around 9000rpm without any deadsticks.

Your info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg

Warren

My Feedback: (72)

That's what I thought until I saw one this weekend with an OS 200 FS... WOW!

Now that's the have-all engine for this plane if you like four strokes.

Swinging an APC 18x8w like nobody's business and a few ounces lighter even. Definitely more power than the 1.60.

ricardinho

i dont think that fourstroke produces more hp then the 160 but may have more torque for mor punch out of the hole. the for true power to weight the os 160 is your best bet. now if you want to be the **** put on a moki 2.10 and verticle climb to the moon.

ricardinho

i think people are putting brisson 3.2 s on these planes. i think a fuji 43 would work nice on this plane also. i think non chainsaw engines like da 3w or zdz would be to much for this plane.

Warren

My Feedback: (72)

I don't think the extra pound of the Moki justifies it. This Extra is already heavy enough. To go with th Moki 2.10 or going to gas will add close to a pound, perhaps more for instance with the Fuji 43. The last thing this plane needs is an extra pound on the wing.

And yes, the OS 200 his pulling more RPM across the board on the APC 18x6W and 18x8w on YS 20/20 fuel by 3-400 RPM with much better throttle response so it is thoroughly smoking the 1.60. [8D]

G.P.

My Feedback: (1)

I just went and checked the price of the o.s. 200[X(] The 1.60 still gets my vote, especially if the os 200 sucks fuel like a Saito four stroke.

ricardinho

the os 200 fs is 2.9 hp 9000rpm. the os160 fx is 3.7hp 9000 rpm. and it is able also to swing a 20inch prop. i run a 18-8 apc. thats the best for the 160. so that is almost 1 hp differance. i cant see how the 200 4s will out perform the 160 2s. also the 160 is almost half the price.

Warren

My Feedback: (72)

The proof is in the tach...

Horsepower is only one component... Torque another. Look up the tach numbers in the tachometer thread; the 1.60 is getting beat. As an aside, a Saito 1.80 turns about the same numbers as the 1.60, only a few hundred lower.

The 200 is using only about an ounce more than the 1.60 on the same flight profile. Yes it is more expensive, but a great option for the four stroke lovers, and is so much easier to 3D with the quicker throttle response. The 1.60 is a pig on transition with an APC, the 200FS swings it around like nothing.

Different options is all I'm saying.

Lowlevlflyer

My Feedback: (3)

I'd agree that the FS 200, or even the Saito 1.80 would be a better choice in this bird for a hardcore 3D flyer, just because of the quicker throttle response and higher torque. For IMAC type precision aerobatics, the 1.60 is perfect.

Lowlevlflyer

My Feedback: (3)

I went out and flew a couple of times this morning before all the relatives affived, and I was going to get some RPM readings for you, but the battery in my tach was dead. I'll be out again this weekend and I will get some specs for you as to what my engine is turning. As far as my flying style, I fly mostly IMAC type precision stuff... not much 3D. I'm also swinging about the largest prop you can turn with this engine according to the OS manual; a Xoar 20x8. I also run a Beila 18x6 at times, so I'll get you readings with both. Elevation wise, our club field sits right at 825' above sea level.

G.P.

My Feedback: (1)

[8D]Thank you Lowlevflyer, that would be greatly appreciated! I like to keep my set-ups simple, so if there is any way possible that I can get my 1.60 to run strong AND reliable without a pump I would like to know how. At the moment I still stand behind my findings that without a pump you can either get the 1.60 (with the Bison pitts) to run reliably, or to run strong, but not both. I would love to be proven wrong though as it would be one less thing to worry about and less weight.

Thanks again for your time!
Greg

kochj

Like I said before, most people that buy this plane are on a limited budget....

SOme like to buy DA 50 @600$ and have the best, and Some like to buy DL 50 @ 350$ and have ....... Well you get my point.....
Wieght isn't the only issue when considering a power plant.....
A BCMA40 or (SPE 40) is made in CHIna and is a weed wacker engine......
A ZDZ 40 is made in Checz with strict standards and have spent much time in making sure the new ZDZ40F3A is as smoth as possible...

everything is a give and take.... You always get what you pay for...........

Justin

G.P.

My Feedback: (1)

After talking to some guys at the field with DL50's, and doing some of my own reading, I'm not so sure that you get what you pay for in the 50cc gas market anymore. Even Scott Stoops has recently given the DL50 some praise and I've read that some DA50 owners are puting DL carbs on thier engines to fix the midrange. I think it may be my next engine. -Greg

SlabBro

With the modern processes being developed, it won't be long i think till prices in general take a sharp drop. The SPE's are a china made motor, but those i've talked to say they love them and the performance is nothing to turn your nose at. I think the days of high end motors is short lived. I planned on a gene saucy in Feb but i see where there is so many planes in the 40cc class that are just so heavy. My 40 is going into an edge 540 that is almost 2 pounds lighter than the saucy, and 3% larger. Keep your eyes open, you get what you pay for but we as americans are notorious for overpaying on most things. The DA's are great but the DL's and SPE's will out number them by far, and with a growing customer base, the other parts will follow suit(customer service, QC, etc.)

kochj

Not saying the PSE engines do not run ect.....
Take a look at the tooling involed on a botom end on a ZDZ or a DA engines..... It cost much more to make these.....
It will always be the case.....
Are you even aware of the amount that these engines cost to make? Support?
I am not aware of the mark up margine or what the cost is, but the cost to make these engines will not all of a sudden be cheep to manufactue.... The only way these engines will drop in price is if people stop buying them and everyone or most of the people buy a cheap, Chinal atlernative.....

I really do not see it happening any time soon.....
I am, on the other hand, very happy that their ARE cheep alternatives to exspensive gas engines!!!! Not everyone has the band accound to afford them and I am happy thay they are running great and are reliable......
If you look at the market, it is still in its very begining.....

I for one, have 3-MAGNUM .91 4-stroke engines!! They are great and every bit reliable as the OS or saito'S..... It don't want to spend 400$ or 300$ on a .91 4-stroke because I have spent all the other money on those exspensive gas engines~~

Thank goodness for the china engines..... but, sucks for our USA economy in the long run,,,, BUt that is a totally off topic subject....

CHeers....
Juasitn

SlabBro

Just for the record, I was referring to a price drop on the high end motors because they will have to with the better chinese motors that are showing up. And yes you are right, this is a new part of the indusrty that is still in it's early stages of growth. But history is always the eyes to the future. the motors were created out of weed wackers, then they started making purpose motors, then someone made the best(DA?), and then someone figured how to make it cheaper and still get the job done(DL?), then the average persons(which out number deep pockets a 100 to1)became 75% of the customer base available.It's simple economics. They will eventually drop to a more reasonable price range to get more of the available cutomer base or take their chances just catering to the deep pockets. Many have come and gone that way. And oh yeah, I have 2 master machinists in my family. I'm very familiar with the whole process. It takes a machine(not a person) about 15 min to whip out that crank case.Where the difference comes in is in the QC involved and the maint. on the cnc machines. They make 80% of the worlds cnc machines over there. gee, bet it's cheaper for them to start producing an essentially equal motor for far less money. and oh yeah, they don't have unions over there so the costs are not so inflated by bs

G.P.

My Feedback: (1)

Actually, I think that these engines may HELP the North American market (Canadians are into the hobby business too!). I'm thinking about buying a DL50 to put in one of the new 3DHobbyShop.com (American company) 50cc airframes. I never would have considered a 50cc airframe before the DL came out because the cost of setting up a 50cc airplane was sooo much more than one the size of the Soucy. It just seemed like a lot more money for not much more airplane. But now I may go for it, which means that I will also be buying more servos, more batteries, more radio equipment and more ground support equipment. Sure North American made engine sales may drop, but everything else is bound to do even better. Just look at what Chinese arf's have done for the hobby. Sure kit sales have all but disappeared, but there are so many more people in the hobby compared to ten years ago. The number of people in the hobby are helping to drive prices down, which will allow more people to take part in R/C.

The best is yet to come![8D]
Greg

SlabBro

Yeah, what he said

Lowlevlflyer

My Feedback: (3)

Okay, Greg, I flew this past weekend, and here's some numbers for you on my engine. Our field is actually 815' above sea level. I'm running Wildcat 15% nitro fuel and an OS #5 plug. On a Xoar 18x8 prop, I am reading 8775 RPM (static) @ WOT, which according to what I am reading, is right on the money with that prop. You can add about 150-200 RPM to that and get RPM's in flight. On the Xoar 20x8 prop, I read 8100 RPM (static) @ WOT. That prop loads it down a bit on the ground, but in flight, it is strong.

G.P.

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for the numbers, those sound pretty good! First off, I'm jealous that it's nice enough to fly where you are! I wonder what the difference is between our setups is though? Whenever I ran my engines lean enough to get those kinds of numbers, without a pump, it was a garunteed deadstick. I can't see the elevation (I'm at 2200ft) making that much of a difference. Perhaps the Omega fuel that I've been using isn't very good? I do find it starnge that I had zero rpm difference between 5%, 10% and 15%. Since others have reported the same findings I thought it was just the O.S. 1.60, but maybe the fuel itself is the problem? Unfortunately the closest place for me to get fuel is 500 km away, so it may be awhile before I get to try something else.

I do have mine running great with Perry pumps now, but any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Lowlev!

Jeff4318

Cowl screws, I harden the hole let cure compleatly.and then use rtv silicone on the threads
and then just enough between the screwhead and the cowl to make the screwhead seat in
rtv. when dry it is virtualy clear and not so hard that you cant get the screws out.
Also when dry any exsess can be rubbed off most surfaces

Jeff4318

im at the fuel tank install step on my Soucy. everything has gone well
with great fits and finish this plane looks awsome
I'm mounting my supertiger G2300 on this plane It flew my giant big stick with
great sucess Thers been alot of talk most bad about this engine
let me just say low end idel screw adjustment is the key to this engine
running wrong or right. i use 15% and a 17x8 APC prop the only deadstick
happened in an outside loop witch i think was klunk related.I am going to use
better lines inside the tank and throughout. hope to have RPM reading soon
STRAIGHT AND LEVEL FLIGHT PROHIBITTED

dbroaddu

For the OS 1.60/Bisson Pitt's user's that have chosen to use the 'large' fuel tubing/clunk/ and brass tube... was is also necessary to change the fuel inlet and needle valve fittings on the engine to a larger size? (I'm not even sure it's an option, but just wondering since I'm at this step).... Thanks!

G.P.

My Feedback: (1)

I'm sure that it's possible, but it would be alot of work! Just run large fuel tubing up to the carb and you'll be ok. I secured mine with some wire to make sure that it didn't come off.

Greg

dbroaddu

That's kinda what I was thinkin' but wasn't sure. Thanks!