MaxThrottle

Many have the same curiousity but it would seem the topic has gone dead. I highlighted the same area as my concern previously and we've heard no info posted on the other thread to poll this info. With little feedback from those who have had critical failures its hard to say. Though a bit of a head ache I did the following.

Aluminum Spar wrapped in Carbon fibre (Hard Ply would do)
Mixed 1/32 Milled fiber into the epoxy to join wing halves
Added Carbon Fibre shafts (Arrow Shafts) thru the Balsa block portion of the wing Cord, Fore and aft of the spar
3 oz Kevlar ~ 6" wide(Fibre Glass would have done just as well) to wrap the joint
A strip of Kevlar 2" wide from the left to the right flap servo bays along the spar
Poured a generous amount of Milled Fibre/Epoxy to fill the gaps I found at the spar toward the root just past the Flap Servo bay.
Glassed the wing surface with 2 oz fiber glass to where the Flap and Aileron meet.


I weighed the wing before starting and after and found I've added 5 oz in the process. It did take a bit of work laying up, layering, sanding etc.
I figure if I crash for what ever reason, it will likely be the only section that survives.


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MAX

rcoregon

This was an interesting weekend of flying. After three deadstick landings with my os61 I decided to put a 91 Saito with a 13X8 3-blade in my Lancair. It flys wonderful and of course the the four stroke sound is very cool. Just as I was ending my third flight a friend shows up with his Lancair (powered by a os61fx). He waxed me. His Lancair air flys more like a jet than a prop. I was amazed at how much faster his plane was than mine. When I asked him how he glassed his wings, surprisingly he said:
"I assembled the wing according to the instructions, no glass just lots of epoxy!" Wow, I was impressed with how much stress he has put on those wings, yet it is flying great.

hattend

My Feedback: (20)

I sent you an email about getting the one piece LG for the Lancair from TnT.

What nose gear does Sierra sell for this plane? I don't see it listed (or I'm blind). Do you have a part number?

Don

MaxThrottle

As I said in the post 31 of this thread, you should expect that.

Not sure if you’re trying to tell me that I wasted my time reinforcing my wing. Yes again, what I did was over kill. But The Picture I posted revealed, on my wing at least, gaps in the spar construction.
If your trying to convince me I should fly the plane with just extra epoxy at the root (leaving the Spar not intact), well thanks for the recommendation but its winter up here with 6 foot snow banks, I'm not flying, I've got the time and unlike the many comments on the many threads about how we should fly this plane, wing folds, bumpy flights etc. I don't have to worry about that stuff now. I created a lot of strength without adding a lot of weight with a few future modifications in mind.

As I and others (like SDCrash) advised: A generous amount of epoxy at the root joint (mixed with CF, Kevlar or Fibre, Milled Fibre), a good snug wing joiner if the one out of the box is a poor fit, and 2" of Fiber around the joint is a good idea. Inspect your wing closely for defects or poor construction points and fix as you would any ARF.

Does this cover everything? There were still comments of wing fails beyond the Fuse with little details. Could be contruction defect, over stressed flying ... If you think your going to fly this puppy hard and fast, the extras reinforcements would be a good idea. But Hey it your plane.

Hey! Maybe I should try swapping the Saito 100 from the Lancair for the os91fx/Tuned Pipe (13.5X11) off my Tucano and really stress test the snot out of this overkill wing.

_________________________________________________
MAX

jrf

My Feedback: (551)

Max:

Aileron flutter can still cause a wing failure, even with your reinforcements. Be sure that your aileron servos are secure and the linkage optimized.

Jim

MaxThrottle

Absolutely. Thats a given but everyone flying this plane should keep in mind the VNE (Velocity Never Exceeded) not to let the speed get out of control. Flutter was raised and jumped on fairly quickly as an unlikely cause. We never heard from crash victims if they heard signs of flutter. Hard to say if the various failures were due to a sloppy build by owners.

Short of counter balancing I try to apply most of the anti flutter recommendations. GP even suggests putting monocote over the Wing Aileron and flap hing line. HHHMMmmmmmm! Makes you wonder huh.

__________________________________________________ _________________
MAX

GBR2

My Feedback: (1)

Doesn't surprise me to read about wing failure of this plane. The DynaFlite Bird of Time ARF also has a very crappy weak joiner, not to mention that they also installed all the shear webs with the grain going horizontal instead of vertical. This crap wing structure has continued since the release of the BOT despite numerous complaints by modelers about the design and strength of the wing. GP even went to the trouble of replacing wings for the BOT and claimed that they had been strengthened. Lie. Same crap as it always has been. Very poor quality control in their crappy Chinese factory. No doubt the same place the Lancair came from.

RCHYFLYER

My Feedback: (1)

Does this mean when I'm finished with my TF Cessna I can't do knife edges?

hattend

My Feedback: (20)

It doesn't knife edge too well, but the low inverted passes are pretty spectacular.


Don

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

At this point, we must interject a comment. The DynaFlite Bird of Time ARF wing was significantly changed. The second version of the wing is very easily seen to be of different construction. People who had difficulties with early kits had them replaced with new kits, and those were still earlly kits. Those individuals were told what they were getting. Nobody was lied to, contrary to a previous poster's allegation. No, it won't take a full-pedal winch launch, but then neither will the kit Bird of Time, or even a plans-built one, if built to the plans. It's not in the design.

Owners of the Great Planes Lancair have had some difficulties, but nothing widespread.

Please be aware of the fact that individuals post on different discussion groups and that one poster may have different aliases on those groups. If 3 people have a problem and post on 3 boards, read by 10 people each, who also comment back and forth, you can have a much larger number of people say that they've heard of the "problem". Suddenly, those 3 incidents have been magnified by several times, and many people now comment on a "widespread" problem that they've heard about.

If anyone has an actual defect with one of the Great Planes ARF kits (or any other product), we have NEVER failed to work with them. We are extrememly concerned about that owners of our models receive the flying pleasure out of our kits that they expect. Great Planes has not become the largest producer of kits and ARF models by stinting on quality and customer service.

SDCrashmaster

Bill,
We'd love to hear from the "inside" what is thought of some of the other restructuring mods and paint schemes that have been posted in the Lancair pics thread and others.
Thanks,
Paul

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

We're sorry, but we can only state that building any Great Planes model airplane kit or ARF must be as dead-stock, that is, exactly as per the instruction manual.

RickVB

My Feedback: (24)

Ack, the lawyers win again...

SDCrashmaster

I was less interested in recommendations as I was thoughts and opinions. I know what the company line is, I just wanting to know what you think about the some of the altered Lancair's out there and whether you like what you see.
Thanks,
Paul

RickVB

My Feedback: (24)

As I said, the lawyers win again. If he were to say anything as a company employee, the lawyers would spaz and demand his head. Like Shakespeare said, "kill 'em all"...

Skribnod

Hey Bax, I have recently purchased a Lancair from towers.....still in the box. Can I safely assume I can assemble this model per instructions and have a safe and stable aircraft? If you state "yes' I am going to begin building process this weekend and if the wing does fail will it be replaced by great planes for me? Also will GP replace a possibly damaged engine , servo's or receiver? Mind you I will not crash this airplane on purpose (way too nice looking) but I would like a reasurance that GP will stand not only behind the aircraft but the additional components installed. Thanks

PS. all my flights are video taped so I will have video footage in the event of a failure.

MaxThrottle

BAX are you stating this as fact or possibility?

At this point its not clear how many actual reports there are unless you can do an actual count based off the RCU applicants IP profile and trace their computer IP addresses to confirm duplication. However, that too is easily disguised. Or you go by what GP has found internally. How would anyone comprehesively know what everyone had received out of the box anyway? If GP could they would likely not send the reported defects.

I have only one ID and have posted only my experience with the wing. till now.

I identified with my second ARF why and where my wing could have failed had I just stuck to the instruction manual. I lost one previously just before touch down minimizing the damage. It failed at the fuse. I know it wasn't due to the way i constructed it since the first one I followed the plans more closely adding only milled fiber to the epoxy for strength. I also know it was not due to overstressed flights either since these were just maiden test flights. For this reason I wasn't happy knowing I did not overstress the previous plane that failed, purchased another (cause got to admit this is a beautiful plane) to find these poor contruction defects on the second. I though well no wonder my first one may have failed. This however is not everyones experience.

Of the two ARFs that I purchased (defects that many others had posted) I had a cracked fuse on one, a busted windshield on the other, Broken wing tips and missing the wheel pants. That happens with ARFs. THat I'm used to. But it seems I either keep getting lemons, since most seem to have had no issues with there kits or Canadian orders are getting special treatment. Kidding!!! really I'm Kidding . I gets these shipped to my brother in the US.
To have GP replace the wing would have cost me money. So I reinforced and made sure I was not going to get more of the same.

I think a good recommendation for any ARF!!!!! Check it out thoroughly for problems, check these posts on RCU for possible issues and deal with them and try to make good use of fine service if available from the Manufacturer. GP has been great in this respect. Hopefully GP has alos taken a look at their QA to make sure less of these defects reach the customer.

In the end I would still recommend this plane considering the above.

Thats my 2cents which in Canada is worth a whole 3 cents


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MAX

lokeetl

I reckon I'll put in my 2 cents also.

I purchased one of these ARF's at the end of January this year and shortly after beginning assembly started searching around the web for any helpful hints. The wing failures postings I ran across had me wondering if I shouldn't have done this search before buying the plane.

Well, I just decided, as a few others have have also, to just go for it and see what happens. The only mod done was to the landing gear with an aluminum joiner, effectively turning it into a 'one piece' unit. What Einstein decided on a two piece system?[sm=bananahead.gif]

The first few flights were made on pins and needles as I slowly bumped up the speeds. 20 flights later I now have no qualms about a full power, 45 degree dive down to the runway for a high speed pass. The pull out is still conservative as I would like to hang on the plane as long as possible. No yankin and bankin EXCEPT at low speeds. She will snap roll quickly at a fairly low speed. I imagine the stress on the plane at that point would be fairly low, by comparison.

I kept the weight to a minimum by going with an O.S. 61. Glad I did. The plane just screams with a .61. And with the in-cowl muffler set up, buggering up the cowl is minimized. If the wing loading is an issue, steer clear of bigger motors (more weight) they don't seem to be needed. I would bet this would fly off a paved runway with a hot .46!

And that's my 2 cents worth. Hope I didn't jinx my success so far with this post![X(]

Best of luck!

Chip W.

nicolicchia52

[size=4]I have flown my lancair for about 1 and 1/2 months (so about 9 or 10 flights). I have not pulled any out of the ordinary g's. I was on my second flight of the day when doing a shallow banked turn. Almost at the apex of the turn I saw my plane's wing snap in half, at the same time I heard something like a gun going off. I picked up the pieces and noticed that the brace was actually still in tact. What the????? I put plenty of 2 ton epoxy on it? I don't understand. So where do I go from here? Should I call GP and ask for another kit? Thanks for any help. If you would like you can email me at..............

[email protected]

Thanks,

Glenn

tIANci

I sold mine off after owning the box for a few months. Only reason was my flying field is just a dirt track and I could not bear seeing the plane peppered with holes. Anyways, one of the guys got a Lancair and the plane is outfitted with a 90 sized 4C. He flies it about here and there, no real loops and all. The planes seems fine, no failure at all yet.

mimoore67

My Feedback: (51)

Lancair Single Piece Landing Gear!
Today, I took the stoke two-piece landing gear to TnT Landing Gear and they'll be making a single piece gear.

These guys are very easy to work with and have a very nice hobby shop. Please support them if your interested in purchasing a single piece Lancair Gear www.tntlandinggear.com

Al Gelders

I called them about a month ago but they hadn't yet built a Lancair gear. Let me know how your measurements worked out. If you like the result I'll give them another call and order one, too. BTW, you live close enough to actually drop by their shop?

lokeetl

We had a Lancair wing failure at our field on Sunday the 11th. The fella was landing with flaps down and the right wing folded at the fuse. The plane spun in and was trash bag material when we went out to get the pieces. I have a Lanc with 5 hours on it and, after seeing this, am about to tear off the bottom of the wing and re-enforce the first 12 to 14 inches on either side of center. The other fella may have landed his hard a couple times and compressed the rib and/or cracked the sheeting under the outer part of the gear. That would make the wing very weak at that point. He had no added aluminum plate to tie his gear together, as I do. Maybe thats why I'm still flying? Hmm.
Best of luck to us all![sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

mimoore67

My Feedback: (51)

It doesn't suprise me, that it foldled as you described. I removed the covering, as I'm getting ready to fiberglass my center section and notice how flimsy it looked. As your aware, I'm adding the one piece landing gear that www.tntlandinggear was making for me. The mouting plate, seems very week. I'll post some pictues, as it goes together. The two piece landing gear setup basically tears the gear mounting plate out of the wing, when a load is applied.

hattend

My Feedback: (20)

Nobody seems to have updated this so:

There are now single piece Lancair landing gears available (see the following email from TnT):
====
Hello Don,
The Lancair gear will go for $27.00 plus $8.00 S&H.
If interested, give us a call at 419-868-5408.

Happy Landings,
TnT Landing Gear Products, Ltd.
====
Don