Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > ARF or RTF
Reload this Page >

pacific models gee bee-Y arf

Notices
ARF or RTF Discuss ARF (Almost Ready to Fly) radio control airplanes here.

pacific models gee bee-Y arf

Old 07-30-2002, 05:32 PM
  #51  
Stargazer
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Pleasant View , UT
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default pacific models gee bee-Y arf

I knew it was not an ARF - BTW it is your review of this kit (and the honesty of the R/C Report reviews in general so I have heard) that has prompted me to subscribe to your magazine, any idea what issue your review will be in? I am looking forward to it!
Old 07-30-2002, 05:39 PM
  #52  
pettit
My Feedback: (23)
 
pettit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 2,769
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Gee Bee

I just write them. Gordon does the scheduling, but it'll be later this year.

Lots of modelers have been asking the same question.

I suppose you saw the photos of me and the plane on the NW hobby site.
Old 07-30-2002, 05:45 PM
  #53  
Stargazer
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Pleasant View , UT
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default pacific models gee bee-Y arf

Yes I did, beautiful aircraft - I'm just kind of leery of the technique used - I have built lots of built up kits but never foam - and have never seen the contact cement technique before. I have almost ordered this kit a couple of times ..... just unsure.
Old 07-30-2002, 07:15 PM
  #54  
Ed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bemis, NM
Posts: 2,889
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default pacific models gee bee-Y arf

Careful guys: This thread started by addressing the Pacific Models Gee Bee model Y, and then drifted into constructing the Northwest Hobbytech model Y. Construction and ruggedness drastically different. The comments made on one cannot be applied directly to the other, especially engine size. Be sure to separate the two to avoid confusion.

Apples & oranges ya know.
Old 07-30-2002, 09:13 PM
  #55  
deadstickdan
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RCS engine mounting

Okay, here comes the question you knew was going to come but I had to ask anyway. I have never had one of this company's engines, I have only seen photos but am wondering how the installations have went. I beleive the carbs are on the backside and would like to know how much modifying to the firewall of the P.A.M. Gee Bee, if any, is required?

I've read that quite a few people use these engines in various applications and as far as gas engines go they seem to be affordable.

Dan
Old 07-30-2002, 10:12 PM
  #56  
AndySteere
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
AndySteere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Columbia, MO
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default pacific models gee bee-Y arf

Dan,

I have some RCS 140 engine mounting pictures in the GBY section of my website below, along with other general assembly and "as it came from the box" pictures.

I was able to use the included mount, which appears to be the same as Hanger-9's "Ultra Engine Mount", and did not need to really modify the firewall at all. Drilled two new holes for the blind-nuts, which you have to do anyway, and made a pair of 1/2" standoffs out of 1/4" birch-ply. There is a lot of leeway in engine and ignition system placement.

Should be ready to fly by this weekend sometime (assuming all the parts I'm waiting for get here). Keep checking the website, I'll update it with additional pictures as I go.
Old 07-30-2002, 11:23 PM
  #57  
deadstickdan
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default great pics

Andy,

Thanks for the info. Very, very good photos. That is exactly what I was looking for. I hope you do get to fly it soon. I see that PAM is now backordered on this plane until Septmeber. Other than using different hardware were you satisfied with the way it went together?Looks very good from the photos!!

Dan
Old 07-31-2002, 04:12 AM
  #58  
AndySteere
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
AndySteere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Columbia, MO
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default pacific models gee bee-Y arf

Dan, thanks for the nice comments!

Overall quality and owner satisfaction? So far, in a word:

AWESOME!!

I've looked at quite a few ARF's, but they all pale in comparison. Wood quality is at least as good as any KIT I've seen, and better than most. Extremely well thought out and well engineered (not always the same thing), superbly constructed (built in China!?!?), and expertly covered. In my mind, it has redefined what I considered to be top-quality ARF design and construction. I wish they were all this good.

I think I'd agree with 95% complete and 15 hours actual assembly time is possibly obtainable without being superman (if you install a glow engine and follow the instructions to the letter). There are just so many things that are already done for you. Hinges are installed, but not glued (and the biggest best CA hinges I've ever seen). Fin is a keyed affair that makes alignment a snap, and most of the covering is already cut in the places it needs to be. The tank is already plumbed for glow. There is a ton of space inside the fuse (but somewhat limited access to it). All the servo rails are installed and just need to be drilled for your size servos. Most every other hole you usually have to drill is pre-drilled for you. For instance, there was a pre-drilled 3mm hole at the correct positions on every control surface... just like it was made for the hardware I picked. These are but a few examples.

The GBY is not "perfect". There are some minor issues. I mentioned some of them in my earlier posts. I will amend that the cowl is gel-coated in a very close matching red, but still a bit thin. A person could have even used the included hardware. None of the control pushrods are longer than 5" and they are quite stiff at that length.

There are a few things they could have been done to make it better (and/or more scale). Scale wheelpant-fairings may have solved most of the wheelpant installation and possible durability problems (they aren't supposed to connect directly to the wing at all, and the back halves are open). If the front of the fuse, just behind the cowl, was rounded to facilitate cooling like the full-scale... a radial engine could have been used. The elevators aren't a scale shape.

As a side note, I personally like the white color way better than the cream. At least one rebuilt full-scale was painted white and red (with dark-blue pinstripe on the color-breaks). A link to them is below. I'm also glad PAM didn't do the fullscale's tailwheel with its funky little wheelpant (though I think it needs a bigger tailwheel than 1").

Did anybody notice the extra hard-points in the fin and stab? Looks like they intended to have flying wires back there! Not in the scale location, but it would look cool anyway. I may do that later.

My main concern so far is that my RCS140 may not be enough motor for the way I like flying (a very tall stall-turn/hammerhead is my favorite maneuver). We'll have to see about that. I won't be too mad if it's not enough power. This specific engine will be going back into my P-47 if it proves to be reliable... and I'll get something else (gas) for the GBY. If not another RCS140, maybe an RCS180, MVVS2.15, or Brison2.4. If even more power is needed... then maybe a BME44, ZDZ40, or Taurus42. Hate to chew the cowl up too much, but a spark-plug cap hanging out of the bottom wouldn't be too bad. Anyway... way too soon to think about that!

Here are links to a couple 3-views, an image of a fullscale, and site about the rebuild of a fullscale... if anyone is interested:

http://astro.umsystem.edu/andy/rc/gby/3view_top.gif
http://astro.umsystem.edu/andy/rc/gb..._frontside.gif
http://astro.umsystem.edu/andy/rc/gby/fullscale1.jpg
http://www.goldenaviation.com/
Old 07-31-2002, 01:07 PM
  #59  
rev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: altoona, PA
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default GEE BEE Y

I got to fly my Gee Bee today with a 20x8 prop . I had better pefromance with more prop outsite the cowl. Top speed was about 60 to 65 mph. @ 6900 rpm with the homelite 33cc motor Rolls are very scale and loops are prefect. Landings are easy, the plane slows down quick. I am glad that I waited for this plane.Besides some of the hardware that I changed, I would have put hard wood stringers in place of the balsa stringers. :spinnyeye :spinnyeye
Old 07-31-2002, 05:00 PM
  #60  
AndySteere
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
AndySteere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Columbia, MO
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default balsa stringers???

I'm curious about this. No way the stringers in mine are balsa. I got to poking around on some of the stringers at lunch with the threaded-end of one of those otherwise unused 2mm pushrods. I also poked on a bunch of balsa and basswood sticks I have. The stringers in mine are way harder than any balsa I have, and about the same as the softest third of the basswood sticks.

Ok everybody... start poking and report back! Better yet, maybe a rep from Pacific Aeromodels is lurking and can fill us in. If mine are balsa, I want to buy some of that balsa!

I'm also curious if everybody's GBY has the number 0060 stamped on the inside of the fuse, next to the wing-dowl opening... or if this is a serial number? There is also a small 22 in a circle stamped next to it.
Old 08-01-2002, 03:59 AM
  #61  
jrf
My Feedback: (551)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Default Wheel pants, colors and prop

Andy:

When NR718Y was modified for the 1933 National Air Races, adding the big engine, bumped cowl and swept windshield, all of the openings in the wheel pants were faired over. Photos taken before the fatal race show this quite clearly.

Jim:

According to "The Gee Bee Racers" by Mendenhall, both of the "Y"s were red and white with a black pinstripe. This book may be wrong, but it was the primary source of PAMs scale info during the design of the ARF.

Jimmy:

Try a 16x6 Master Airscrew Classic on that G23. Ours works very well in the Gee Bee now that it is fully broken in.

Jim
Old 08-01-2002, 07:24 AM
  #62  
AndySteere
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
AndySteere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Columbia, MO
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default pacific models gee bee-Y arf

jrf,

thank you for the info! That explains it! The photo I linked to in my earlier message was Ken Flager's replica, which has no extra fairings (and a more reasonable sized engine). I don't know about you, but I'd rather think of my GBY as the replica, or at least as it was before Florence got hold of it! To think otherwise goes crossgrain to the website's warning about NOT being a racer (according to one source, GBY's won more races and made more money than the purpose-built Gee Bee racers). A person might be tempted to put a ZDZ80 in it to fully duplicate her efforts to win that race... probably with the exact same results! :stupid:

The online resources are contradictory about the GBY's color. All the sources agree there were only two of these airplanes built originally, NR11049 and NR718Y, both started life as twin-seaters. One of the sources, Golden Aviation, swears both were red and white with blue pinstripe. But the Aerofiles site says NR718Y was red and cream. Who knows... I like the white better and it looks very nice with either black or blue pinstripe.

Do you have any prop recommendations for an RCS140? Should be a bit stronger than a stock G23. Mine was last tached turning an APC16x8 at >8600rpm (only half way through the first gallon of fuel). After break-in, RCS recommends propping it down to ~8000 with a 17x8 or 16x10. If it can turn a Mejzlik 18x6 close to 8000rpm, do you think that would be a good choice?

Congrats on a great ARF, and thanks for bringing it to us!
Old 08-01-2002, 08:30 AM
  #63  
Jimmy Bananas
My Feedback: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Urbandale, IA
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Gee Bee Y

JRF:

Am going to try a Menz 16-8 as soon as it gets here...Probably next week..using a Zinger 16-8 now..it flys it ok,but with the Menz,I'll have a little more "Uff".....Now if the damn wheels don't lock up on landing.......................................if they do,then a pair of Sullivan 5" go on it..I know they won't lock up....BTW, I do have a new set of wheel pants on the way..should be here by next week......
Old 08-01-2002, 03:44 PM
  #64  
jrf
My Feedback: (551)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Default Racer?

Andy:

I read the same info about the "Y" winning more races and more money than the "R"s, but remember, the "Y" did not race with the big boys. It was a class winner, not overall.

The "Y"s top speed was about 170 mph. (At 1/4 scale that's 42.5 mph!) When Florence Klingensmith tried to make NR718Y go 200 mph, it came apart in midair.

Perhaps it's fortunate that the "Florence Klingensmith"s of R/C who insist on trying to make the Gee Bee ARF go 100 mph aren't sitting in it at the time.

I don't have any experience with the RCS engines, but Dick Pettit will be using one soon. Given your rpm figures though, I'd go with the 17x8. Should give better thrust than the 16x10 because of the big cowl and you should still get 70 mph top end.

Jim
Old 08-01-2002, 07:00 PM
  #65  
AndySteere
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
AndySteere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Columbia, MO
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default pacific models gee bee-Y arf

JRF:

Thanks for the prop suggestion! I'll give it a whirl... so to speak.

I know the Y didn't race with the big boys... the point was that you modeled a RACER but say its not a racer in the ads. That's ok though... the senior sportster may have had a less tragic history if it had been used as just a sporty flyer. Just to be square with history, maybe we shouldn't blame Florence for the modifications... here's what one source has to say:

NR718Y was built for E.L Cord Corporation as a test bed for it's Lycoming division for 215 HP, Lycoming R-680 engines. It was later purchased by Art Knapp who hired designer Bob Hall to engineer installation of a Wright Whirlwind, a new windshield and landing gear fairings. The aircraft was raced in 1933 Chicago International Air Races. Florence Klingensmith flew the aircraft in the feature race, but unfortunately a large piece of fabric came off of the inboard section of the right wing, she flew off of the course for a distance, and apparently stalled the aircraft and tragically died.

There have been lots of discussions here about what is "scale speed"... and I don't want to start another. But, what is likely "scale speed" on this model has been described as "a potato with wings". 60-70mph will probably LOOK more scale than 42.5mph and seems like a good target range.

BTW, I think I see what you guys are talking about with stronger stringers. Got to move it around, now that it is much heavier than it was out of the box. I can see that you must be very careful where you pick it up. At the formers and sheeted areas are best. But, this is true for every open-stringer model I'm aware of.
Old 08-01-2002, 10:50 PM
  #66  
jrf
My Feedback: (551)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Default Right you are!

Andy:

You're right of course. Poor Florence can't be blamed for anything worse than a lack of caution.

I agree. The perfect speed for the ARF is 60 - 70mph. With a light engine though, it will fly quite nicely at 40mph. We fly the Saito powered ones at about that speed for photo passes.

Jim
Old 08-03-2002, 07:42 AM
  #67  
Jimmy Bananas
My Feedback: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Urbandale, IA
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Gee Bee Y

Props:

Got a Menz 16-6-10 that I'll try today..my 16-8 isn't here yet,so we'll see what happens with this prop on a G-23........
Old 08-04-2002, 08:37 AM
  #68  
Jimmy Bananas
My Feedback: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Urbandale, IA
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Gee Bee Y props

Used a Menz Ultra 16-10 that my friend BAS gave me to try and that seems to fit the bill for the G-23...The plane could use a little more power....believe a RCS 180 might fit the bill....like the mounting arrangement for this engine..plane flys great now and I'm happy with it...got alot of nice comments on it..of course you have to dive it a little to make a loop.....am very satisfied with the kit and performance.....Am a happy camper...................
Old 08-13-2002, 05:59 AM
  #69  
AndySteere
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
AndySteere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Columbia, MO
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default pacific models gee bee-Y arf

I'm back from a week out of town, my ordered parts are here, and I have it about ready to fly. I was only one ounce off of guessing the finished weight in my earlier post (it came in at 15lbs 2.0oz)... at least before I have to add 4-5 ounces of lead in the nose to balance. That is better than 9-10 ounces I was going to need... before I moved the batteries as far forward as I dare and cut 1/2" of excess length from the steel wing mounting bolts. Updated pics on the website.

Ordered an APC 17x8 today. Already have a 16x10, and we'll probably try both at some point to see what I like the best. I agree with Jimmy that an RCS180 may be a better match for this plane than either a G23 or RCS140... especially at >15lbs. I think I'd want to look at beam mounting it instead of the radial mount though.

I wonder... a ZDZ40 puts out pretty much the same usable power as a Saito 180 (~25 lbs of thrust and 60-70mph), which is a recommended engine, and isn't significantly heavier than a G23 or RCS180. At 15-16 pounds and almost 1200 squares of wing, an aerobat like an Edge would be looking at a 50-60cc gas engine... as a 40cc'er wouldn't be considered enough. So, why is the ZDZ40 way too much engine for the GBY?
Old 08-13-2002, 09:52 AM
  #70  
Jimmy Bananas
My Feedback: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Urbandale, IA
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Gee Bee Y

Well here is an update on mine....Ended up with a APC 17-6 on mine and it performs better..a little more speed and now it loops..Put 5 oz's of lead the nose...had a little accident coming in for a landing..stalled and hit the ground from about 2 ft..damage to main gear only.....broken landing blocks,wheel pants and wire landing gear broken and beyond repair..upon inspection of landing gear blocks,they are barely glued in..NO epoxy,it's that damn hot glue again..well a set of new landing blocks were made by a friend of mine ( Oak) they are glued in with EPOXY...repair is under way..should be completed as soon as my new landing gear wire gets here..have a new set of wheel pants...was going to install the sullivan 5 " wheels,but are too heavy..they weight 15.2 ozs..the wheels on the model now only weight 5.2 ozs...still toying with the idea....still think a 1.8 is the ticket for this bird....BTW, Andy forgot to mention..I poured about 1 1/2 ozs. of epoxy down inside on the firewall, and with a brush I spread it all over the firewall..it's solid now...no damage there during the crash...... well back to the work bench...cheers
Old 08-13-2002, 03:11 PM
  #71  
jrf
My Feedback: (551)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Default No hot glue.

Sorry to hear about the mishap! At least the damage was minor.

The Gee Bee is tacked together with CA and then all joints are filleted with aliphatic resin glue. (Yellow woodworking glue.)

There is no hot glue used.

Jim
Old 08-13-2002, 03:31 PM
  #72  
Stargazer
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Pleasant View , UT
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default pacific models gee bee-Y arf

Andy - thats what I have been wondering also - I dont have one of these (yet!) but from the pics on your web site (exellent site BTW) this bird looks pretty beefy from the firewall to the Spruce?? stringers - healthy tail feathers etc. I have a ZDZ40 lookin for a home - I have heard of these engines going in H9 Edge's and Taylorcrafts. Wonder what the Manufactuer thinks??
Old 08-13-2002, 05:59 PM
  #73  
fgpierce
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
fgpierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Etiwanda, CA
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default pacific models gee bee-Y arf

JimmyB

Sorry to hear the ground jumped on you! Happens to me once in awhile to.

Keep up alittle throttle untill just, JUST, off the runway. This bird will slow down really quick because of the frontal area of the cowl and maybe even the pants. Lots of drag

try nailin' that damn runway down : next time!

Fred
Old 08-13-2002, 07:18 PM
  #74  
Jimmy Bananas
My Feedback: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Urbandale, IA
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Gee Bee Y

Thanx Fred:

Was pilot error,so next time I'll know better..**** happens...need a little power for landing....does fly nice now....will get repair and fly it again in a couple of weeks...

Sorry,I couldn't nail the runway down...ran out of nails
Old 08-14-2002, 12:44 AM
  #75  
GIJon
My Feedback: (118)
 
GIJon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Pulaski, TN
Posts: 327
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Gee Bee "Y"

Hey guys, I have been keeping up with the posts here as I am preparing to assemble mine. Great info and I especially liked your photos Andy. You must be a proud papa! I have a 3W-24 to put in the front of mine. It is in the same class as the G-23 or RCS 140 (I have one of these also), but it is supposed to have a little more power. The guy I bought it from sent the prop he ran on it and it is a Menz Ultra 18X10. We shall see... Keep up the great reviews and I will keep you posted on my progress. Right now, I am re-shrinking the covering and adding 1/16" silver Ultrastripe as an accent. The wheel pants look good so far.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.