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ThunderTiger Rare Bear

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Old 01-23-2007, 11:20 AM
  #1501
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear


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ORIGINAL: rare_bear

indeed...

but if he wanted a reno racer AND "flat out stupid speed"

there are 3 better choices that ARE faster (with ys110 or jett):

1. world models dago red
2. cermark alley cat
3. kyosho kelly F1

all three are reno racers and the kyosho may be in the 150mph class.

the rare bear looks great on the outside - great for sales - but not speed
Thanks, but that doesn't support or explain your earlier declarations.

TT RB and SF are going to "sef destruct" in mid air.


I am just trying to understand your claims here...it's a pretty bold statement to make. I thought I was clear on my question to you but I will reiterate.
1) Your stating that the TT Rare Bear and the TT September Fury are going to self destruct on me in mid air? Can you explain?



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Old 01-23-2007, 01:23 PM
  #1502
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

i've seen 4 of them come apart in mid air at our field. now i was being facetious - however, the probability is high.
i'd love to get one of these but i have been kept away because i know that i would have to tear it up from the inside and redo stuff to give it structural integrity while trying to keep the added weight penalty down.

as far as the "stupid speed" comment, well, if one wants a reno racer AND "STUPID speed" with capital letters, the smaller reno racers that i listed will give you an added 10-20mph advantage over the rare bear. a TT rare bear powered with a 120 will not get you there.
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Old 01-23-2007, 01:42 PM
  #1503
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

Quote:
ORIGINAL: rare_bear

i've seen 4 of them come apart in mid air at our field. now i was being facetious - however, the probability is high.
i'd love to get one of these but i have been kept away because i know that i would have to tear it up from the inside and redo stuff to give it structural integrity while trying to keep the added weight penalty down.

as far as the "stupid speed" comment, well, if one wants a reno racer AND "STUPID speed" with capital letters, the smaller reno racers that i listed will give you an added 10-20mph advantage over the rare bear. a TT rare bear powered with a 120 will not get you there.
babenson,

rare-bear is not far-off regarding the Rare Bear coming apart in-flight. The kit needs reinforcing of the main gear and tailfeathers to even be considerd air-worthy and some folks go far, far beyond that. Don't get me wrong, is is absolutely beautiful to see but if I could go back to 2004 and not buy it, I would. This is a good example of a good candiate for a model plane executed poorly. TT heard it from all sides, it's no secret and if you ever have the unfortunate chance to look inside the wing (gear) and stab (you may already have) you'll agree the construction is really the issue. As much as I like the way it looks, if you had a Bear that you were trying to fly @ 100+ MPH, I'd be the guy standing behind the flight-line, keeping one eye glued to the plance and one foot facing the other direction.

Not being mean, I own one, and I have taken apart the wings to re-build the gear mounts and the tailfeathers to reinforce the carbon tube and root rib, I beleive I have earned the right to criticize...

Jack
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Old 01-23-2007, 02:32 PM
  #1504
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

yep -


before this plane came out (but word was out that it was coming out), i was planning to buy one. i opted to wait and see how the first few turned out by watching peoples reports - and they were negative.

instead, i bought a 60 sized world models mustang as my first warbird. i ended up putting in a ys140 and it flew a good clip of around 125 (not "stupid speed" as we routinely see all the time at our field with 46 sized warbirds stuffed with ys110's)

i am now building a dymond bearcat and have a taste of what it is like to rebuild the plane from the inside, as the dymons model is like the rare bear in this way: looks great on the outside but crap on the inside.

in retrospect, since i am a supporter of the REAL reno racer, i wish that Lyle and Sharron had struck a deal with World Models or Hanger 9 to fabricate this bearcat - it would have been SO MUCH better in structural quality and i would have probably bought 2 of them.
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:31 PM
  #1505
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

Has anyone built the September Fury, or the F-8F Bearcat, made by Thunder Tiger? Are these better built that this one? I have done a search but none turn up for a forum?
Anyone?
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:39 PM
  #1506
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

i believe their navy blue f8f is the same as the rare bear.

they only needed to paint with blue and use blue covering. they also injection molded a larger canopy. other than that, the internal guts are the same crap.

so yeah, it was very cheap for the to design a navy version since it involved minimal design effort.

i don't know about the red september fury
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Old 01-23-2007, 10:32 PM
  #1507
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

I would give thumbs up to the WM Dago Red. I've seen those sporting YS110 running around without as much as a hiccup. Scary though. When they come around for the pass in front of the stands, I always tried to hide behind something. Never know when one of those screaming crazies loses control.
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Old 01-23-2007, 10:38 PM
  #1508
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

yep.

the buddy i fly with has a wm dago red.
i had an alley cat (before crashing into his wm yellow mustang that is)

anyway, we both flew at about the same speed between 135-140mph.

both models are excellent.

i believe the kyosho kelly F1 is probably even faster (stuffed with a ys110.)


hay, does anyone herein go the REAL reno races?
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Old 01-23-2007, 10:55 PM
  #1509
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

Great, thanks for the explanation. Any Rare_Bear, based on your info, I called TT today and asked them if the addressed all of the issues with the RB in the September Fury, and they told me absolutelly. The stab issues are no longer a problem, the vertical stab is all fiberglass not and the horizontal is like a rock....which it actually is.

Not to sound defensive at all, I appreciate any and all info I can get, but when I have this much darn money in a plane, the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air.

and to the last post by Kochj, I cannot find any info on the TT Sept Fury anywhere....

I have one final question, In talking with TT today, I asked him how much weight I am going to have to add to the nose. He said he has a TT .91 and added a "bunch of weight" but did not know how much exactly. He did say that a pound or so is not out of the question. Does this sound right to you guys?

You guys have been very helpful.
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Old 01-23-2007, 10:59 PM
  #1510
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

I'll go out on a limb here and say the TT F8F is Rare Bear in Navy colors.

Don
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Old 01-24-2007, 10:50 AM
  #1511
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

Quote:
Not to sound defensive at all, I appreciate any and all info I can get, but when I have this much darn money in a plane, the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air.
A lot of people end up "marrying" their plane. When someone comes along and shoots it down, they end up getting all defensive like when they say "the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air."

Approaching your plane objectively and not emotionally (I have this much money ties in it, the last thing i wanna hear...) is a better way to weigh in what others are saying in a logical fashion. If the plane has known problems, by all means, go and fix these problems before that pile of money ends up in the trash. Personally, I WANT to know about a planes intrinsic problems.

I am currently building a dymond model products f8f bearcat. I will be the first to admit that the kit is substandard. I had to do a lot of reinforcement along the way to make it (for what i believe to be) structurally sound. This is another one of these planes that looks good on the outside but is not so good on the inside.

Good luck.

for reference:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_21...tm.htm#5313432

Quote:
I called TT today and asked them if the addressed all of the issues with the RB in the September Fury, and they told me absolutelly. The stab issues are no longer a problem, the vertical stab is all fiberglass not and the horizontal is like a rock....
Well, in my opinion & experiences here of course, you really gotta check things out for yourself.Keep in mind that it is the best interest of Ace hobbies to say that their products are "absolutely rock solid." they are in business to make money. But I have heard many people complain in this forum that they call up Ace and get the run-around... so yeah, check everything out for yourself instead of taking the manufacturers word for it. - this applies to all products. I think that (after filtering) you get a tremendous amount of GOOD information in these forums from people who have actually built and tested this product.
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Old 01-24-2007, 03:08 PM
  #1512
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rare_bear

Quote:
Not to sound defensive at all, I appreciate any and all info I can get, but when I have this much darn money in a plane, the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air.
A lot of people end up "marrying" their plane. When someone comes along and shoots it down, they end up getting all defensive like when they say "the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air."

Approaching your plane objectively and not emotionally (I have this much money ties in it, the last thing i wanna hear...) is a better way to weigh in what others are saying in a logical fashion. If the plane has known problems, by all means, go and fix these problems before that pile of money ends up in the trash. Personally, I WANT to know about a planes intrinsic problems.
The last thing I want to hear is that my plane is "going to disintegrate in mid-air" is perfectly NON emotional response to a comment that was not backed up. It was given freely as opinion and was not until I pried it out of you that you explained yourself. To your point that you keep preaching, "check things out for yourself" is exactly what I am doing, and based on your initial reply, what you are preaching to me is in sharp contrast to what you are doing..... doncha think?

"Personally, I WANT to know about a planes intrinsic problems."
Exactly. That is why I went to this forum in the first place (to learn about a planes strengths and weaknesses) and with the exception of YOU, I got great feedback and continue to. But you’re irresponsible or "facetious" as you put it, comments were only the complete opposite of what your stating now. And you made them without an explanation. This is also in sharp contrast to the philosophy and rhetoric you are preaching here.
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Old 01-24-2007, 03:11 PM
  #1513
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

But I would still love to hear how much additional weight people are putting in the nose of their TT RB or TT Sept Furies.
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:53 PM
  #1514
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

Quote:
and with the exception of YOU... ...But you’re irresponsible or "facetious" as you put it, comments were only the complete opposite of what your stating now.
then with the exception of maybe the last and possibly first few pages, i guess ya didn't go back and real all 61 pages througout this forum, didja?
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Old 01-24-2007, 06:14 PM
  #1515
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

Quote:
ORIGINAL: babenson


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rare_bear

Quote:
Not to sound defensive at all, I appreciate any and all info I can get, but when I have this much darn money in a plane, the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air.
A lot of people end up "marrying" their plane. When someone comes along and shoots it down, they end up getting all defensive like when they say "the last thing I want to hear is that its going to disintegrate on me in mid air."

Approaching your plane objectively and not emotionally (I have this much money ties in it, the last thing i wanna hear...) is a better way to weigh in what others are saying in a logical fashion. If the plane has known problems, by all means, go and fix these problems before that pile of money ends up in the trash. Personally, I WANT to know about a planes intrinsic problems.
The last thing I want to hear is that my plane is "going to disintegrate in mid-air" is perfectly NON emotional response to a comment that was not backed up. It was given freely as opinion and was not until I pried it out of you that you explained yourself. To your point that you keep preaching, "check things out for yourself" is exactly what I am doing, and based on your initial reply, what you are preaching to me is in sharp contrast to what you are doing..... doncha think?

"Personally, I WANT to know about a planes intrinsic problems."
Exactly. That is why I went to this forum in the first place (to learn about a planes strengths and weaknesses) and with the exception of YOU, I got great feedback and continue to. But you’re irresponsible or "facetious" as you put it, comments were only the complete opposite of what your stating now. And you made them without an explanation. This is also in sharp contrast to the philosophy and rhetoric you are preaching here.
babenson,

I think you are on the defensive here when rarebear was really just joking (sort of, I happen to agree that there is a better than 20% chance the RB might end up in more peices than the number you came to the field with, maybe minor, maybe major). As an impartial observer to both sides of this conversation, I think you are being too harsh for what appears to be genuine constructive criticism with a little levity thrown in.

Just my opinion...

Jack
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Old 01-24-2007, 06:18 PM
  #1516
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear


Quote:
ORIGINAL: babenson

But I would still love to hear how much additional weight people are putting in the nose of their TT RB or TT Sept Furies.
babenson,

It's hard for you to equate my setup to yours as I converted mine to electric but, even with my 2 x Thunder Power 8000 (4S4P) packs shifted as far forward as possible (and I mean THROUGH the firewall), I still had to add almost 6 ounces.

Here is a shot of my RB during construction of the battery tray before I balanced it and added the weight...

Jack
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Old 01-24-2007, 08:12 PM
  #1517
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

Jack



Your probably right. It was just such a stupid comment to make in the first place, but I will concede that maybe I am a little frustrated with the comment.
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Old 01-24-2007, 08:14 PM
  #1518
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

No, I did not. Maybe you were just having a bad moment. Enough about it, lets get back to the forum....Constructivly.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rare_bear

Quote:
and with the exception of YOU... ...But you’re irresponsible or "facetious" as you put it, comments were only the complete opposite of what your stating now.
then with the exception of maybe the last and possibly first few pages, i guess ya didn't go back and real all 61 pages througout this forum, didja?
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Old 01-24-2007, 08:44 PM
  #1519
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

that's what i thought.... and it's well worth the effort.

(and no, i am not having a bad moment)


i wish you good luck with this airplane in achieving "stupid speed"

happy flying, k?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
btw, reflecting back:

quote - rare bear:

''If you want flat out stupid speed, try a world models 46 sized mustang with a ys110 in it. that will get you 135-140mph and they will not self destruct unless you have a mid-air:''

quote - babenson:

''HUH!!! so your saying that the TT Rare Bear and the TT September Fury are going to self destruct on me in mid air?''

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

i should have immediately corrected your interpretation which is not what i stated.

i stated ''If you want flat out stupid speed, try a world models 46 sized mustang with a ys110 in it. that (the ys powered WM 46 size mustang) will get you 135-140mph and they (ys powered WM 46 size mustangs) will not self destruct unless you have a mid-air (collision)



comprende?
i guess i simply figured people wouild figure out what ''they'' and ''that'' meant in the context of the sentence and that most people know that a ''mid-air'' usually refers to a mid-air collision - but i was wrong.
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:11 PM
  #1520
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: babenson

No, I did not. Maybe you were just having a bad moment. Enough about it, lets get back to the forum....Constructivly.
Ah yes, love is a beautiful thing :-p
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Old 01-25-2007, 06:40 PM
  #1521
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rare_bear

btw, reflecting back:

quote - rare bear:

''If you want flat out stupid speed, try a world models 46 sized mustang with a ys110 in it. that will get you 135-140mph and they will not self destruct unless you have a mid-air:''

quote - babenson:

''HUH!!! so your saying that the TT Rare Bear and the TT September Fury are going to self destruct on me in mid air?''
Who ar you kidding. Your inference was that the TT RB will self destruct and that the World Models would NOT unless you had a mid air (and yes, I understand what a mid air is). This was further supported when you went into your tangent about the failablilty of the TT RB and SF.

K!
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Old 01-25-2007, 06:41 PM
  #1522
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

isn't it roooooomantic!!!

Quote:
ORIGINAL: jfetter


Quote:
ORIGINAL: babenson

No, I did not. Maybe you were just having a bad moment. Enough about it, lets get back to the forum....Constructivly.
Ah yes, love is a beautiful thing :-p
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:28 PM
  #1523
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

Quote:
This was further supported when you went into your tangent about the failablilty of the TT RB and SF.
i found a post (dated 1/23/2007 6:39:17PM) where i said "i don't know about the red september fury" but sure in heck can't see nutting about claiming it's "failability."



thanks and hay, when is your (rare bear) maiden gonna be?
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Old 01-26-2007, 08:55 PM
  #1524
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: rare_bear

Quote:
This was further supported when you went into your tangent about the failablilty of the TT RB and SF.
i found a post (dated 1/23/2007 6:39:17PM) where i said "i don't know about the red september fury" but sure in heck can't see nutting about claiming it's "failability."



thanks and hay, when is your (rare bear) maiden gonna be?
OK truce...

I have the TT September Fury. I am hoping to get it in the air this weekend, but I still need to balance it out. At this point even with an OS 1.20 AX, I still need to ad at least a pound or more. I am hopeing that there is someone out there that has one and they can tell me how much weight they had to ad.

I am CG shy...crashed a few before I figured out what it was. Nothing like seeing your new airplane go nuts when you are on your maiden....


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Old 01-26-2007, 10:31 PM
  #1525
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Default RE: ThunderTiger Rare Bear

in case ya can't find anyone to offer some know-how on the s.f. center of gravity...

my 2 cents worth on c.g.

not all manuals are correct.

i look at where the recommended c.g. is relative to the wing spar (usually the thickest point of the wing). if it matches the wing spar in position, i may put it like a half-inch forward. what i usually do on all my warbirds to date if put some masking tape under the wing next to the fusalage ad mark where the spar is. then with my fingers on the spar location, i want to have a nose-heavy condition somewhere around aquarter to half inch.

my rationale here is to start out slightly nose heavy and make adjustements from there based on how it feels on landing and how it carves a highly banked turn. if it's really nose heavy, the nose will drop in highly banked turns. when the c.g. is moved back, the plane will track in the turn better and better as you hone in on the c.g. to where you like it.

in a nose heavy plane, there is more of a tendency to nose-in on landings. so when starting out, i usually don't put the cowl on right away either (rather scratch a valve cover than fiberglass) unless the engine protrudes far enough to eliminate the fiberg;lass from making contact

some guys at our field put shims on the rear gear block to make the wheels sit further forward and therefore, assist in preventing nose-ins. when the gear retract, the wheels have a slight tilt to them so that's the drawback i guess - but nobody sees that anyways.

just my 2-cents worth...

-yes, truce.
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