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Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Old 01-12-2006, 11:27 PM
  #2976  
Jack211
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

TimC,

I'm the "buddy" of whom Downtrodden speaks. We only sometimes fly at the SAME time. One buddy is necessary for watching for cars on the road, kids, and dogs off leashes--saftety first! So I have to WAIT for the SOB to STOP flying his O.S. 61 Twist. He's having fun; I'm... watching. Then I get MY 10 minutes with the Twist/Saito. I've gone over 10 minutes a couple of times. The day I went over 11 mins, having such fun, I decided to take her off just one more time, another practice landing--how much fuel can THAT take, hm? Clock read 11:20. (I'm excellent at dead stick landings, lotsa practice. Ask Downtrodden.) I got 10 feet in the air, flamed out, and crashed trying to get back to the field, down wind. Stupid. But I resurrected the Twist (#4) and now have a Super Tigre .45 on it. I'm gonna get MORE than 21 minutes on that 11 oz tank, way more--and make Downtrodden MORE so, waiting.

I've truly enjoyed the Saito 82 on the Twist, love the sound and power--and it has done yeoman service--except for the fact that after 500 mins of flight time the bearings blew. No reason for it. I use premium fuel, 15% nitro, broke it in properly, balanced prop (13 x 8), etc. I sent it back; Horizon Hobbies rebuilt it, free. In the air again--after three weeks WITHOUT flying my beloved Twist--the bearings blew, again! The prop moved about .003 when I grabbed it, preflight check. I've just sent it back, AGAIN--and complained, believe me. I'll come back here and tell you they have or have NOT stood in good stead of their warranty ( I bought the .82 in August, '05), but I believe I got a lemon. Everybody ELSE swears by Saito. I'm swearing AT them--unless they send me a BRAND NEW ENGINE--which will go on ANYTHING but the Twist--not because that combo doesn't work, but because I'm putting an O.S. 61 on the new Twist, my #5--to match my buddy's TIME IN THE AIR, making Downtrodden WAIT while I fly. Meanwhile, I'll keep swearing at Saito.

[Doc is also trying to figure why his Saito is flaming out. It CAN'T be as simple as a the BRAND of glo plug. My Saito, original, glo plug lasted... almost 300 minutes, I reckon. And I've had flameouts with the OS-F plug. The trick is tuning, I'm sure, Doc, but, having seen that video of yours, I suspect you may have scared the s--t out of that bird, making it hiccup and die. :-)]

The Saito 82 is waaaay too greedy with fuel. There's nothing it can't do on the Twist, but ohhhhh, the price we pay. The Super Tigre .45 (infinite vertical though slower than the O.S. 61) is what? 69 bucks? The Saito 82 is 279--and eats gas like no other. I've seen Downtrodden fly his O.S. .61 on the Twist (that 21 minutes)--and I've seen him with a ST .51, too, (on his #1, 2, and 3 Twists). There's little he CAN'T do with that bird. Elevators don't seem to work, but I'm suddenly thinking that with that .61 it's nose heavy. Elevators, I'm thinking, might require a very tail heavy bird, hm? You tell me.

Don't brag to me of Saitos. I have two of them, the .82 and a 1.0, which when IT flamed out (and I use a tachometer) cost me, in one instance, a P-51D (needs lots of air over the wings to fly) and, another instance of flameout, a U-Can-Do .60 ( had to put her down hard, floating forever, before it hit a fence. I SHOULD have hit the fence).

Ultimately, the money has NOTHING to do with it. It's all about BEING--in the AIR! If an engine doesn't work, is hard to tune, blows bearings in less than 10 hours of flight, uses too much nitro, whatever... the price you pay is beyond dollars--it's... sitting on the ground, watching OTHERS fly. Hm, like watching someone else uh... kiss ( I can't say the other thing) your wife. Sorry, I don't do that very well.

So try the O.S. .61 on your Twist. (Note, RCUniverse: Can I get paid by O.S. to say that here?)

Jack

P.S. BEING in the air is the only way to feed the passion.


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Old 01-13-2006, 12:47 AM
  #2977  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

I know one other guy who had the bearings go out in a Saito for no good reason. Maybe something is out of balance internally! Maybe the crank.
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Old 01-13-2006, 08:10 AM
  #2978  
TimC
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Jack 211, my Saito .82 is in my Pizazz and I'm not sure what size tank it has, but I'm getting over 10 min. flying time ( I don't roar around at full throttle). I'm using a .63 YS in my Twist with no problems once I got the needles sorted out. I'm not a fanatic for any brand engine, but the three Saitos I have in service have been dependable and pretty much trouble free. I agree, that is pretty short bearing life. I recently had some O.S. bearings corrode after very few hours. I happen to have an O.S. .61 sitting idle. When I start getting the itch to try something new, I might poke it in the Twist and see what happens.

Propspinner, I'm thinking that due to way a four stroke oils the bottom end (blow-by), and the acids produced by burning nitro ( from what I've read), early bearning failure might be due to corrosion, not rust. I use Corrosion X in my four strokes to fog the bottom end through the vent tube. I've not had a bearing fail in a four stroke yet. The early failure I recently experienced was in a two stroke. The pitting on the races and balls was all at the bottom of the bearing where a pool of after-run oil would normally cover. I've started using Corrosion X on the 2 strokes also.
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Old 01-13-2006, 06:48 PM
  #2979  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Nose heavy? I don't think so. I've always had my 3D craft a little tail heavy, if anything. Doc, I like your video idea.....you start it off. (You don't wait for nice weather to fly, do you?) Winter flying is where its at.
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Old 01-13-2006, 07:03 PM
  #2980  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

TimC,

Is this what your talking about? If so which product that they sell are you using? Can it be bought at WalMart or is this not something easily found?
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Old 01-14-2006, 08:00 PM
  #2981  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

PropSpinner, sorry about the delay in the reply. For some reason I don't get a notification on the Twist thread. Corrosion X was developed for the salt water boat crowd I believe. It might be available at a local marine supply there in Ohio. I see it in the hobby shops here in Texas where I'm visiting. Not so in California. You might find a local boat shop and see what they have available in an aerosol anti-corrosion spray.
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Old 01-17-2006, 01:43 AM
  #2982  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Well boys if all goes right, by spring I will be the proud owner of a 2.5 acre runway...or as my wife prefers "Acreage". Although I will be busy gettin the place in shape to live in, the flying time is gonna sore after the works done. Also has a wide open hay field right beside my acreage so The videos will be soon to follow. (may or June I hope) I also Hope someone else will be brave and Post the first " Try to Beat me video" Then everyone can vote and pick a winner at the end of the month. Have different catagories Like : First plane or Pro what ever is needed to get everyone showin off there TWISTS.

Come on!!! What's the matter? YA YELLA?

I can't do much so how about someone that can hover and really set the pace, Start the Flyin

Come on Clean ....You be first everyone knows you da man.
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Old 01-17-2006, 08:24 AM
  #2983  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

The last day of Competition should be the first day of spring ?????? Well you guys are gonna have a whole lot of practice before I can enter, We don't start until we can get to our field, so after the Ice and snow melts and the ground hardens I will surely like to be involved, I just bought a house with an Acre that has a nice long grass runway over looking 100's of acres of corn field so I too will now be able to fly everynight from home, So as soon as the workshop is in place I will be able to fix the Twist and hopefully get a video in. I just am not ready to get out in the snow covered backyard yet, But I can definitely get out there before our normal field is ready, we just got back from Mexico man its cold in NY [&o]

I still like the OS Surpass II .70 4-stroke as a winning motor. But that just me
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Old 01-17-2006, 02:34 PM
  #2984  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

ORIGINAL: RCDOC

21 mins is some nice fly time. I have my Saito .82 and have not put a full tank through it yet but I would bet that it wouldn't beat that. Anyone time there saito .82's with the stock 11 oz tank (same kinda flight that downtrodden was doing with his .61 OS) that can give us a fly time?
My radio timer says I have about 9 hrs of flying time on the the Twist now. 9 hours of pure joy, played out at ten minute intervals :-)

=Lothar
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Old 01-17-2006, 07:02 PM
  #2985  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

I'm jealous of you guys with your own personal flying fields! I plan to do the same thing someday. It's just not possible in the near future. Enjoy!
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Old 01-18-2006, 07:48 AM
  #2986  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Don't be too jealous, It only took me 37 years to get my own personal flying field and its still not as big as I would like it to be, but it will work, now I have to be able to buy more acres from the farmer next to us, so I can put in a nicely paved runway. [8D] my goal is to have a site bigger than AMA's, then we can fly 50 or more twists at the same time without fear of smashing into each other, its a nice dream I tell you...
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Old 01-19-2006, 05:50 PM
  #2987  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Re my Saito 82a, which I cursed in these pages because this is the SECOND time I've had to return it. Horizon Hobby Services returned the engine with new bearings, no cost to me. The tech said the bearings had corroded, my fault, and that I should ALWAYS put in after-run oil after every day's flying. Point is, Saito folks were as good as their word--better, actually. They didn't charge me for something that was my fault.

And I don't understand that. I fly that 82a almost every day. I had one stretch of maybe five days we couldn't fly. Every time I've checked the tappets or whatever, there's castor oil everywhere inside. I use Wildcat Premium (15% nitro; 18% castor/synthetics). So WHY should those bearings corrode? I understand nitromethane residuals are "corrosive," but from one day to the next? And how does one get after-run oil into the BOTTOM of the engine without taking off the muffler after each flying session? I can't believe you put it in the HEAD, by suction through the carb, and enough oil will seep past the cylinder to get the job done. You tell me.

When I KNOW I'm not going to fly an engine for a while, I DO use oil, 4 bucks a quart, as after run oil. Or is there something "by definition" that is "special" about "after-run" oils?

Sorry, Saito, if I've abused you.

Jack
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Old 01-19-2006, 07:30 PM
  #2988  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Jack, you're not the only one to relate bearing problems with Saito engines here at RCU. One theory I read opined that in an effort to shave every gram possible off the engine, they made the case too thin and left off gussets that should have been there. This results in the case flexing under load, which puts the bearings in an un-natural bind, resulting in early failure. In a fourstroke, I shoot an aerosol after-run oil in through the crankcase breather tube, and lots of it. I recently started using it in my 2 strokes also after early bearing failure using my normal air tool oil. After my latest engine swap, I now have four Saitos in service with no bearing problems yet. I don't run my engines very hard; I tend to overpower the model and fly around at partial throttle. Also I have a few different planes, so any one particular engine doesn't get that many hours in a years time.
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Old 01-19-2006, 11:54 PM
  #2989  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Jack,
I have a Saito 80 and it runs very good. No problems at all.

For an after-run oil I use a 50/50 mix of Marvel Mystery Oil and Transmission Fluid. According to Clarenece Lee, where I got this mix from, the transmission fluid does not allow the oil to dry out when it is sitting in the engine for any length of time.

When I am done flying for the day. I will start my engine and let it run at a good idle, then I will pull the fuel line off and it will run until it runs out of fuel in the carb. Then when it shuts off I take my glow driver off, open up the carb to full throttle and then pour in the 50/50 mix. I pour in alot. Then I close the carb off and then hit it with my starter until I see the after run come out the exhaust. Then she is done until the next time. The only thing is the next flying session when you start the engine for the first time, since it is loaded up with the after-run oil, I have to leave my glow driver on an extra minute or two to make sure the oil is gone. If I don't the engine will stall.

This after-run mix of 50/50 is good for all engines, 2 or 4 stroke, except of any YS engines. The petroleum products will destroy the diaphrams in the pumps.
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Old 01-20-2006, 07:33 PM
  #2990  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D


[quote]ORIGINAL: Waldopepperaxel

The last day of Competition should be the first day of spring ?????? {quote}

Ok I agree, the first day of spring is the first official video day and the first day of summer will be the last day to enter your best Twist video so get them warmed up. Whos gonna be first. Don't be scared. nothing offical, just purr fun!!! Whos in?
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Old 01-21-2006, 08:40 PM
  #2991  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Today was fantastic! The sun shined here and there an eleviated my SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder). I can't say enough about the O.S..61FX and the Hanger 9 Twist! 25 minutes on 11oz. of 15% Wildcat fuel!!!! Can you believe it? I hope my compadre will chime in and support my claim, but even if he doesn't you'd be well informed to at least try it for yourselves! I almost forgot to mention the prop, MAS 13x5. This combination will please everyone, without a doubt! Enjoy! Peace and blue skies.
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Old 01-21-2006, 08:57 PM
  #2992  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Hi All:

Yes XSDevotee that was some flight you had today!!!! To bad I missed it,but at least I saw the Katana fly good.I'm almost sure that some of the snowmobilers were enthralled.

Wyld Weasel
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Old 01-22-2006, 04:31 PM
  #2993  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Weasel, I don't know if I explained my theory on "winter fishing" to you, but here goes. I an attempt to improve my flying, I have devised a process in which I can gauge the appeal of any given maneuver by "fishing" for snowmobilers. Since our winter flying site is located off the main trail between Hancock, MI. and Copper Harbor, MI. we have hundreds of sledders zipping by daily. I "fish" for these sledders (fish) by using different lures (manuevers) and if they slow down (by hearing them) I consider them "hooked" and if they stop I can add their number to my "stringer", but if they just slow down and then leave I consider them as having put up a good fight even though they have thrown the hook. The description I use for the sledders that don't even slow down is "bullheads" (the lowest of the low!) To date the rock steady hover is by far the most productive lure as it looks so out of place just sitting there in the sky when they're speeding by at 75mph! Last year had me reeling in 30 at one time (a record that still stands today!) We were also visited by the man that painted Matt Chapman's Cap (the one with the spurts of color all over it.) Its surprising, but the number one comment is "Check it out, it has skiis! Five more hours today and fuel availability is becoming an issue. It seems we can't get enough flyers interested in a bulk order as $$$ is in short supply. I can't imagine not being able to fly! Well, blue skies. Peace.
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:38 AM
  #2994  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

I have a magnum 70 in my twist and can hover at a little over 1/2 throttle. I've seen videos of the 82 and it doesn't pull out of a hover like that, but it does very good for $100 cheaper. I can turn a 14x4w apc at just under 10k so it works pretty good. I have pretty heavy servos in the tail so I didn't add weight, my rudder servo is a HS635 on a 6v pack so it's pretty fast.

One thing I am having problems with is the knife edge. It seems like it wants to pitch when I'm using the rudder. Anyone mix that out? What did you do? Add up elevator with the rudder? How much?
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Old 01-24-2006, 10:04 AM
  #2995  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Hey Akschu,


I too had a little trouble with the Knife edge,[:@] but I am balanced at about 4.75 all it took was going into many snap rolls and practicing using the ailerons a little with the rudder and I can Knife edge pretty good now, it took a little time with the Twist for me, I thought it would have been pretty easy with this plane. it took me quite a few flights of practice to help me find that sweet spot with out mixing anything, and now its just 2nd nature to roll right into it from any manuever. It worked that way for me anyway, maybe someone else has a better method of getting you there with this plane, but I just snap rolled to a side and tried to hold it there and then would try snapping the other way until I found the easiest way to hold it, now I can do either side. I eventually want to put wheels on the wing tips to see If I can land it knife edging, but I have a feeling It will be the greatest cartwheel of all times. you just gotta love the site of exploding balsa or your in the wrong Hobby..
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Old 02-05-2006, 06:31 PM
  #2996  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

I just finished my 1st twist. I used the evolution power system with macs tuned pipe. It balances upside down at 4 - 13/16 from leading edge. Idles at 1900 -2000 rpm low needle is about 1.3 turns open, and WOT is at 13500 high needle is 3 turns open. The throttle transition is smooth and responsive from idle to wide open. I decided to use the APC 12 X 3.75 prop. I live at an elevation of 4500 feet. If the weather is good next weekend, I'll give you the maiden flight report. Here is a picture.

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Old 02-05-2006, 07:52 PM
  #2997  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Looks great! Like the pipe. I'm sure everyone will want to know how the test flight goes as soon as they get through watching the Super Bowl. You'll have a blast!
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Old 02-05-2006, 08:31 PM
  #2998  
Ron Kinsey
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

I will say...This is the WORST plane to knife edge.
It can be done but you really have to work at it.

Your Plane Looks Great Dyoung1
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Old 02-05-2006, 08:36 PM
  #2999  
TimC
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Nice work dyoung1. I think that is the first Twist I've seen with a pipe.
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Old 02-05-2006, 09:44 PM
  #3000  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 Twist 3D

Try knife edging a Harrier 46 its near impossible even with mixing. I do agree though the twist is tough to hold in a KE.

I dont fly my Twist much any more cuz I'm learning IMAC, but I do have a blast when I fly my twist it has a tower 75 and floats. Power is crazy and it rolls crazy with the big geebee floats. Its will still hover but is a challenge with the belly weight of the floats. Thought I had a pic but cant find it.
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