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AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

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AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

Old 07-06-2004, 03:17 PM
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ckangaroo70
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Default AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see alot of threads on here asking folks about their favorites. Whats your favorite Trainer? Or what is the best Sport Plane? Or which is best put together? etc. etc. What I really want to know is what Planes do you want to stay away from at all cost? In other words, what is the worst Plane you have ever flown, or which one was so bad that you just put it back in the box, and took it back to try and get your money back because it was crap! I know this may stir up a stink, but I would really like to know so I can stay clear of the lemons.
Old 07-06-2004, 03:34 PM
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SunShyne
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lemons roam in ALL manufacturers if you ask me. You get what you pay for and in my opinion I feel many modelers expect WAY to much in terms of what they are paying for. I have a a few planes and each one is a bit different. All require the setup to be played with and some slight reinforcement but I have never opened a box and then re-packaged it becuase I didnt like it.

Most manufactures have a few planes that come up with problems and there are a few companies that have their share of problems with QC. Not to beat a dead horse but you get what you pay for and ALL require some sort of work to get them to fly to spec.

just a rant, good luck

matt
Old 07-06-2004, 05:19 PM
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AJF--2
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know that what I am about to say will get a lot of folks hot but I will not buy another Aeroworks ARF. I have bought 2 of them and been unhappy both times with the finished product. Now these are great flyers--- but as stated above I think I was expecting more. After buying my Great planes Wagstaff and Pitts ARF at $400 and then paying $600 for a product that included absolutely no hardware and did not go together as well--- well I will just say that I will not buy another Aeroworks ARF. Too many other "better deals" out there at the present time. I'll leave it at that.
Old 07-06-2004, 06:31 PM
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Cyclic Hardover
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you will find that a fair amount of these lousy arfs are actually very good flyers, just construction junk which will lead into disaster. I even took a couple of them some time back and immediately stripped it down to the wood, did some gluing here and there and recovered.

Thunder Tiger is notorious for bad covering material and hotglue in the important areas.

Modeltech P 47 is a great flyer but the covering is crap. I'd pay and extra $25 to have it show up in Ultracoat or similar.
Old 07-06-2004, 06:59 PM
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ckangaroo70
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now this is the stuff that good buying descisions are made on! I didn't start this thread just to offer a place to bash manufactures. I posted it because I really think Flyers will benifit from other Flyers bad experiences with certain Manufactures. As said previous, there are alot of good flying poorly built Planes. Most people though would prefer to have a well built, good looking, and GOOD flying Plane. Asking the question, "what is your best flying plane?" does not really tell anyone about its quallity, or how it went together. Asking the question, "what is worst?", really opens up all aspects of Model Airplanes. Was the Model built straight? or Was the covering poor quallity and poorly applied? or did it have horrible flight characteristics? or was the Model advertised as being a heck of a lot better than it actually was? These are good questions that a potential buyer can really base a good informed buying descision on. I know that no manufacturer puts out a perfect product all the time, but if you see the same Manufacturer named over and over in this post you can pretty much bet that the Manufacturer named over and over has some real quallity Control issues, and it would be wise to stay clear until those issues have been taken care of by the Manufacturer. I would have told you in the past to maybe stay clear of VMAR Brand Planes, but after purchasing one of their New Aero Subaru 40's it seems that they are making an attempt to bring their quallity up from the some of the previous models they have put out in the past that were inferior to other Brands. So just because a Manufacturer makes the bad list today don't mean that they won't redeem themselves in the future. Thanks for the reply's to this post.
Old 07-06-2004, 07:06 PM
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pablocruz
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

Never Ever Ever buy a Flair Peashooter P26.... they suck, bad langing gear , heavy, slow, bad wing design, just a useless kit..... mine is for sale though... if anyone is interested..... I hate it..... It's a flying danger....[:'(]
Old 07-06-2004, 07:08 PM
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CHEETAH AIRCRAFT
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think you'll get many takers on your Peashooter now !!!!!!!!!!!
Old 07-06-2004, 07:10 PM
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ckangaroo70
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

Appreciate the honesty Pablo.
Old 07-06-2004, 07:17 PM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

The worst arf I've owned was the Model Tech .40 sized Me-109. Not sure if its still around, but it flew like crap. I ended up giving it away because I disliked it so much.
Old 07-06-2004, 07:53 PM
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jrf
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gosh nobody has mentioned Giant Scale Planes yet. Must be because they don't sell very many.

Actually, it all depends on your experience. If you only fly high wing aircraft, how would you know that some CAPs are snappy and some aren't? If you only build really cheap ARFs you may not know that great quality is available for just a little more.

As far as individual manufacturers go, the big guys (Horizon/Hanger9 and Great Planes/Top Flight/Hobbico/Tower) have some cheap junk and some very high quality stuff.

And to top it all off, the quality of the average ARF is increasing so rapidly that what is great today will probably be cheap junk next year.

For now I'd stay away from anything that doesn't have a real iron-on covering and anything from China Models/CM Pro/Giant Scale Planes/Flair/Jamara

Jim
Old 07-06-2004, 09:04 PM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

You also have to keep in mind that individual manufacturers have "bad days". As an example, I put together a GreatPlanes .40 size AT-6 Texan about a year ago. Fit and finish were absolutley fabulous. I mean everything fit just like it was suppose to, everything lined up, it balanced perfect and it looked great. I lost that plane in a mid-air and built another immediately because I liked it so much. The second one was absoutely terrible. The wood quality was questionable, the covering didn't match, nothing fit ... and I mean NOTHING ... I had to make 1/16 filler shims to make the wing pockets/joiners fit correctly. I mean this thing was a pice of junk. I am sure that I could've sent it back and got another with no questions ask but I was in a hurry to get an AT-6 back in the air so I "fixed it" heck even the hinge slots for the CA hinges were cut at an angle (used small robarts in their place ). Bottom line, The first one was a great airplane but the one I have now flies 100 times better than the first. I am sure it is because of the time I put into it making sure things were "right".

I have built ARFs from a variety of manufacturers and I have to say that each one has their "good ones" and thier "bad ones". It's the ones that have a higher percentage of good ones that make it.
Old 07-06-2004, 09:10 PM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, I'm going to hang my neck out on this one... Why they have such a big following in these groups is beyond me but my worst plane to date is a SPAD. The SPA3D to be exact. When I considered building one everyone seemed to like them but all I got was a 3D plane that was way too heavy for any serious 3D maneuvers. I built mine exactly to the plans and the biggest problem with the design (besides the weight) is the aluminum rail fuselage is so flexible that the tail would always be a half turn behind the main wing while doing a roll. Handling was lousy at best. Yes they are cheap and that is exactly how they fly. At least I didn't waste a lot of money on it.

There is also a version of this plane that uses a square aluminum tube for the fuselage that probably eliminates the the fuselage flex problem but it would make an already heavy plane even heavier!

All I can say is I was highly disappointed. Maybe other SPADS are better but definitely stay away from the SPA3D!
Old 07-06-2004, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have never understood the Spad following. To be fair, maybe it is because I have not owned one. I just find it hard to believe that a large following of people make over these as much as they do. As I said I have never owned one, but they just strike me as being way over rated even with their current price tags. Please correct me someone, and let me in on the secret of what makes these Planes so awsome. It sounds like the fellow down the road from me in the post above has found at least one bad spad.
Old 07-06-2004, 10:06 PM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've only built one spad, and in fact most of the building was done by a local Spad advocate. The plane looked alright, but really does'nt fly all that well. Especially with the engine the Gnat was designed for (O.S. LA .15). After switching to a Cox .15 Conquest it is better, but still does not fly all that well.

All things considering though, for the price of the plane, its not all that bad. I'd rather spend 20 hours more, and have something enjoyable to fly.
Old 07-06-2004, 10:08 PM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARFs that I had purchased in the past I thought were bad and said nothing about ended up discontinued anyway..(I wonder what that really means)
Old 07-06-2004, 10:41 PM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

2 of the older Global ARFs:
P47 .60 w/retracts. Absolutely the worst flying thing I have ever had. Very squirrely. Was a chore just to fly in a smooth circle. Cranking the throttle up would make it roll violently in the opposite direction. The covering was horrible. Probably why they quit making it. After about 3 flights, stripped and roundfiled that sucker.
D-VII .40 biplane. Worst instructions ever! Measurements given for the engine mount placement on the firewall werent even close. I have built kits that were easier and faster to put together. Also no longer made, probably why.
Wattage Impress. Barely flew as it came stock.
ORIGINAL: ckangaroo70

I see alot of threads on here asking folks about their favorites. Whats your favorite Trainer? Or what is the best Sport Plane? Or which is best put together? etc. etc. What I really want to know is what Planes do you want to stay away from at all cost? In other words, what is the worst Plane you have ever flown, or which one was so bad that you just put it back in the box, and took it back to try and get your money back because it was crap! I know this may stir up a stink, but I would really like to know so I can stay clear of the lemons.
Old 07-07-2004, 12:48 AM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

At the 2003 WRAM show 4 of my club members (myself included)picked up a Kange or SuperCraft T-34 for a great price and now think we all paid way too much 3 out of the 4 flew and all 3 of them had the landing gear let go on easy landings, When repairing the gear the landing gear blocks had almost no glue so I pulled the other side apart and it was just as bad and I ctually pulled on one of the blocks and it pulled right off and there where pieces of wood that where punched out of the ribs floating around in the wing. I ended up giving the piece of crap away and got much the same stories from the other two who actually flew there planes. Some love there Kange planes but I steer clear from them.

Dauntae
Old 07-07-2004, 01:29 AM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

How much?
ORIGINAL: pablocruz

Never Ever Ever buy a Flair Peashooter P26.... they suck, bad langing gear , heavy, slow, bad wing design, just a useless kit..... mine is for sale though... if anyone is interested..... I hate it..... It's a flying danger....[:'(]
Old 07-07-2004, 04:43 AM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh No , I still have the old Global P47 sitting in the box . This is the first I heard that it is a bad plane . Iknow it was supposed to be tail heavy if you stay with the smaller engines .I heard it flys great with a bigger power package up front !
Old 07-07-2004, 07:50 AM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have built well over 50 ARFs and kits and about the worst yet is that "money-sponge" Kyosho Gee Bee Z. Kinda squirrley in the air, Yes, I know its a Gee Bee but sheeshters, The slightest blemish on the runway and it flips over [ taking out the cowl and wheel pants]. Cost to replace, $50 for the cowl, $80 for the pants. Two flights and its sitting in the LHS waiting for some "sucker" to buy it. NO MORE KYOSHO's !
Old 07-07-2004, 07:50 AM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are interested in an ARF, do a search of it here. I have yet to be suprised after doing my homework in RCU. If there is anything wrong with it, you will find out in this forum. If it's new let a few people buy them first. If they suck don't buy it.
Old 07-07-2004, 08:35 AM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

Firstly ... poor PABLO! Hahahaaa ... you need to modify the landing gear so that its a little more flexible, hence it will not punch through the wing! Also, please note that the nose is super short and hence it will be tail heavy!

As far as ARFs go I have to say that the hobbyist needs to know about quality. For me I am now (finally) experienced enough now to be able to look at an ARF and know if it will fly decently and has decent quality. Newbies need to talk more to club members to find out more, can't always trust the LHS only.

As for talk about a plane being able to fly or not, I find its usually too much talk. I got the Global Raven and the Black Horse SU31, I was told by everyone its NOT flyable. Both the Raven and BH SU31 flies great, I do not have to struggle on take off and landings. Its about set up to a large extent. Some cheap ARFs from Vietnam have their GC stated wrongly, eg. they will say its between 100-120 mm, if you try 120 mm you will kill your plane, usually keep it to 105 mm.

A cheap plane I have really enjoyed is the Phoenix Scanner - great cheap low wing trainer. Flies darn well and comes in so easy on dead stick. I am into no. 3 now.
Old 07-07-2004, 09:46 AM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe that no one has mentioned the VMAR ARFs from Richmond RC. Cheap, gummy wood bad joints horrible coverings (the new stuff is no better) and soft plastic fittings. Nice to look at when new and OK if you have nothing to compare them to, but stay away!

quint
Old 07-07-2004, 10:10 AM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

The worst quality ARF that I've owned was a Thunder Tiger Tiger Sport 40L.....it's a shame too, because the plane flew fantastic.....but the build quality was awful....and the plastic turtle deck was junk. It lasted a season of normal flying and then had to be retired. I would love to see Thunder Tiger redesign this plane with all wood and Ultracote covering.

I agree with you guys about the lemons, and manufacturers having bad days or bad production runs. My Modeltech Magic Extra was a perfect example, I had all kinds of issues to deal with during assembly, as did others that I've read about , but many other people didn't have those same problems.

My VQ Spacewalker seemed very iffy when I first got it......alot of the sheeting is very soft, hardware was junk, I had to re-work the landing gear mounting area, and the stock tank position was too low.....I really thought the plane wouldn't last long, but it's been around for almost 2 years now, and it's an excellent flying plane. But at a price of $159, vs. Seagull's Spacewalker II at $119, I don't feel it was a very good deal.....if the Seagull SW was out when I bought the VQ, I would have went with the Seagull.
Old 07-07-2004, 10:35 AM
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Default RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree about the TT Sport ... some friends got them and they don't last long, flies nice but starts to drop to bits! Hahaaa ... the Magic Extra is bad in the sense that the stripes will come off and if you land her hard the fuse will break, that needs to be reinforced still it flies well.

I have been lucky, all my planes we nice, even the cheap Vietnam ones. Only plane I did not like was the WM SkyRaider II ... the plane is just too light for my liking. A personal preferrence ...

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