Big ARF Quality?
12-09-2001, 03:01 PM
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Big ARF Quality?
Does anybody see a trend here these days as to the quality of the larger scale arfs ? There have been problems with the Cermark Pitts ( 2 demolitions in my area) , the Sig Sukhoi and the Hanger 9 120 size cap in my opinion was poorly built. It makes you wonder how these newer large arfs from hangar 9 and great planes r going to fare . Who wants to be the guinea pig ?
Tim
Tim
12-10-2001, 09:03 PM
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Big ARF Quality?
Perhaps you meant the Hangar 9 Edge 540? While I hear that the H9Cap 232 did have some problems with a weak firewall, that was nothing compared to the Edge 540 breaking wings left and right (no pun intended!<G>)
Or do you know something about the H9 CAP 232 that I should??? I just ordered one...
Steve
Or do you know something about the H9 CAP 232 that I should??? I just ordered one...
Steve
12-15-2001, 04:55 PM
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Big ARF Quality?
Ihave "built" (exaggeration) the Sig Cap - the Sig Sukhoi the H9 232 73"& 1/3 size, the H9 330 and the H9 540 and a lot of the early PILOT ARFS-the first generation Lanier and even back to the Testor's series of control line prefabricated wood models (Freshman- Senior) -So I have developed a bit of a feel for good /bad quality.I do this to keep up on what is happening with the prefabs--
The new H9232 CAP is as good a flyer and as lightweight as any custom made model in the 1/3 size catagory - and flys as well or better than them also.
I have heard others poo poo em - but they are whistling in the dark! Done right - these are as good as it gets.
Having done TOC contest custom made stuff - (a number of times). I think I understand what is required for a good model and the ARFS are closing in fast.
The lowly 120 size Cap for $200 bucks at the moment is an incredible bargain!
If you have any building skills -you can easily strip covering and redo assemblies as desired - re cover and still be at a very low cost -for a great flyer! Stuff a light 40 Gasser on it and go.
12-15-2001, 06:56 PM
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Big ARF Quality?
Hi Dick of DH Models!
The new H9232 CAP is as good a flyer and as lightweight as any custom made model in the 1/3 size catagory - and flys as well or better than them also.
Sure seemed that way to me from the maiden on... I love this plane... and alot of the latest round of ARFs. I think I fly it a bit less nervy than the guy who just took six months to build a kit, too. :-)
I plan on sticking with ARFs until I'm through learning to fly.
So, what's your current/next project DH?
The new H9232 CAP is as good a flyer and as lightweight as any custom made model in the 1/3 size catagory - and flys as well or better than them also.
Sure seemed that way to me from the maiden on... I love this plane... and alot of the latest round of ARFs. I think I fly it a bit less nervy than the guy who just took six months to build a kit, too. :-)
I plan on sticking with ARFs until I'm through learning to fly.
So, what's your current/next project DH?
12-17-2001, 01:01 PM
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Big ARF Quality?
Dick Hanson,
Some clarification, please. Are you saying that the H9 CAP NEEDS the covering stripped off and certain areas beefed-up/modified?
In what way is it "poorly built"?
Steve
Some clarification, please. Are you saying that the H9 CAP NEEDS the covering stripped off and certain areas beefed-up/modified?
In what way is it "poorly built"?
Steve
12-17-2001, 03:47 PM
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New ARF's
Hey guys,
I have several new ARF's, you can't build them at these low prices. I like building and I am pretty tough on planes when they are in the air. I have a H9 Cap 232 and I have twisted, tumbled, blendered it and it has done a great job. I understand that there are some failure's out there and my heart goes out to those folks. I think sometimes we (hobbists) are too quick to blame the manufacture and not our poor building skills, and bad flying habbits. I am guilty as well, I dumb thumbed a plane and blamed it on the radio failing, just because of my own pride. All ARF's require some building knowledge, and a understanding of what stresses a plane undergoes during flight. If you are not an accomplished builder/flyer than I don't think ARF's are for you. All modelers must climb the ladder in their hobby life, just as we did. Some shortcuts will bite you later. Just my 2 cents worth.
Ric
I have several new ARF's, you can't build them at these low prices. I like building and I am pretty tough on planes when they are in the air. I have a H9 Cap 232 and I have twisted, tumbled, blendered it and it has done a great job. I understand that there are some failure's out there and my heart goes out to those folks. I think sometimes we (hobbists) are too quick to blame the manufacture and not our poor building skills, and bad flying habbits. I am guilty as well, I dumb thumbed a plane and blamed it on the radio failing, just because of my own pride. All ARF's require some building knowledge, and a understanding of what stresses a plane undergoes during flight. If you are not an accomplished builder/flyer than I don't think ARF's are for you. All modelers must climb the ladder in their hobby life, just as we did. Some shortcuts will bite you later. Just my 2 cents worth.
Ric
12-18-2001, 12:53 PM
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Big ARF Quality?
>
Disagree strongly, Ric; UNLESS you are talking about BIG ARFs. The .40-.60 size models have gotten lots of folks started who otherwise would never have, since they didn't want to take the time to build a model at first. The ARF hooked 'em.
I have been building and flying these things since 1987; well over thirty different airplanes, about half ARFs and half I built from kits. But nothing larger than a Goldberg Ultimate; this is why I was asking about possible problems with the CAP. Weak construction, etc., that wouldn't make a difference on a smaller airplane could be catastrophic on one this size. I had heard that the H9 CAP had a weak firewall and gear mounting set up. Yesterday, when I picked the kit up, the hobby shop guy said that early versions suffered major wing failures. First I'd heard of that.
I know some of the tricks like pinning the firewall, tri-stock, 1/64" ply inlays under the control horns, etc. And I will closely inspect the parts to see for myself. I just thought there might be something endemic to this model that I might miss.
As for the need to strip the covering off, etc., if I have to go to that much trouble I'll just build a kit. The whole idea behind an ARF is to minimize building time; and the fact that there is no way I could build a comparable model for $225.
Steve
Disagree strongly, Ric; UNLESS you are talking about BIG ARFs. The .40-.60 size models have gotten lots of folks started who otherwise would never have, since they didn't want to take the time to build a model at first. The ARF hooked 'em.
I have been building and flying these things since 1987; well over thirty different airplanes, about half ARFs and half I built from kits. But nothing larger than a Goldberg Ultimate; this is why I was asking about possible problems with the CAP. Weak construction, etc., that wouldn't make a difference on a smaller airplane could be catastrophic on one this size. I had heard that the H9 CAP had a weak firewall and gear mounting set up. Yesterday, when I picked the kit up, the hobby shop guy said that early versions suffered major wing failures. First I'd heard of that.
I know some of the tricks like pinning the firewall, tri-stock, 1/64" ply inlays under the control horns, etc. And I will closely inspect the parts to see for myself. I just thought there might be something endemic to this model that I might miss.
As for the need to strip the covering off, etc., if I have to go to that much trouble I'll just build a kit. The whole idea behind an ARF is to minimize building time; and the fact that there is no way I could build a comparable model for $225.
Steve
12-18-2001, 01:45 PM
#12
Big ARF Quality?
Steve - I understand your feelings that the ARF should not need covering stripped etc..
My comments were intended to encourage even new comers, to make changes they feel desired.
At these prices -you cannot buy a kit and build and cover- so -why not develop simple building and covering skills with em.
Look at the advantages of using this approach:
1. You already know what it should look like.
2. You can see how they assembled it and if you want to change it, the materials used can be copied .or improved
I scratch build -a lot --including 40+% size stuff -some used at TOC--and these new ARFs are , in my opinion a boon to even experienced builders, who want a particular model -and don't mind a few changes to improve performance.
Typically , a different tail group is of help on models with slab construction.
better landing gear - from aircraft quality aluminum etc..
One of my favorite models is the H9 232 in 33%.
This is completely competitive -at any class level -with only the inclusion of a light powerful engine and some careful equipment selection.
I also rebuilt my aileros -why - just because I wanted them a little lighter and stiffer
My comments were intended to encourage even new comers, to make changes they feel desired.
At these prices -you cannot buy a kit and build and cover- so -why not develop simple building and covering skills with em.
Look at the advantages of using this approach:
1. You already know what it should look like.
2. You can see how they assembled it and if you want to change it, the materials used can be copied .or improved
I scratch build -a lot --including 40+% size stuff -some used at TOC--and these new ARFs are , in my opinion a boon to even experienced builders, who want a particular model -and don't mind a few changes to improve performance.
Typically , a different tail group is of help on models with slab construction.
better landing gear - from aircraft quality aluminum etc..
One of my favorite models is the H9 232 in 33%.
This is completely competitive -at any class level -with only the inclusion of a light powerful engine and some careful equipment selection.
I also rebuilt my aileros -why - just because I wanted them a little lighter and stiffer
12-19-2001, 08:25 AM
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Big ARF Quality?
Hi Dick!
as soon as I finish ne 40% Caps- --a ZDZ40 RE in a FAI pattern setup
Is "ne" an acronym? For "next" Caps... plural? Whoa... how many 40% Caps we talking here?
BTW, I'm thinking of yankin' the DA off the H9-CAP and throwing on a ZDZ-80 single. Then picking up a AW 33% ARF for the DA. Sound like a good idea?
as soon as I finish ne 40% Caps- --a ZDZ40 RE in a FAI pattern setup
Is "ne" an acronym? For "next" Caps... plural? Whoa... how many 40% Caps we talking here?
BTW, I'm thinking of yankin' the DA off the H9-CAP and throwing on a ZDZ-80 single. Then picking up a AW 33% ARF for the DA. Sound like a good idea?
12-21-2001, 02:52 AM
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CERMARK PITTS
The Cermark Pitts is a great flying aircraft. There have been a few stories going around that they have been loosing their upper wing due to upper wing aileron flutter. When over powered, I am inclined to believe that, as I am seeing many that are GROSSLY over powered. The upper ailerons are not directly powered by servos, but by inter-connecting push rods from the lower ailerons. The additional linkage between the lower and upper ailerons tends to develope extra slop, and it's the sloppy linkage that allows the flutter. Be sure to use the outter holes in the extra long control horns that Cermark gives you, and insure that everything is snug.
The upper wing is attatched by two blind nuts that are mounted at the cabane junction. These should be strengthened. I wrapped these junctions that enclose the blind nuts with 60 lb kevlar, and then epoxy coated the wraps. These multiple wraps of kevlar are stronger then steel.
Above all, don't overpower it. I'm using a Thunder Tiger 1.20 two stroke engine that makes for a nice combination. It's probably the nicest Landing airplane that I own,
The upper wing is attatched by two blind nuts that are mounted at the cabane junction. These should be strengthened. I wrapped these junctions that enclose the blind nuts with 60 lb kevlar, and then epoxy coated the wraps. These multiple wraps of kevlar are stronger then steel.
Above all, don't overpower it. I'm using a Thunder Tiger 1.20 two stroke engine that makes for a nice combination. It's probably the nicest Landing airplane that I own,
12-21-2001, 03:19 AM
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Big ARF Quality?
Hi Jim:
Thank you so much for the info. I have been wanting one of these but could never find the other side of the story. I like the plane, and will put a 120 in it.
David R
Thank you so much for the info. I have been wanting one of these but could never find the other side of the story. I like the plane, and will put a 120 in it.
David R
