Aero-Works Edgo 540 .60/.90
01-07-2002, 01:54 AM
#51
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Engine?
Has anyone else flown theirs yet? AAAA how is yours doing. I want to hover this thing with a safe pullout power and keep mine under 8lbs. What motor would you use? ys.91, webra 1.20, or mds1.48(i dont know the weight)? I love my plane and i plan on using the hitec 225MG in the tail. would standards on the ailerons work? PLEASE HELP!!!!
01-07-2002, 05:38 AM
#52
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Which engine?
Derek,
Of the three you referred to I would lean towards the YS 91.
YS 91 = 26.6 OZ including muff (I think)
Webra 120 = 26 OZ without muff. Muff probably 4 - 5 OZ depending on which one you choose.
MDS 148 = about 30 - 32 OZ without muff.
If you hang to much weight on the front you will need to add additional weight to rear, there by increasing the overall weight of the bird.
"If you put a big enough engine on it even a brick will fly!" But, It will never 3D....
Of the three you referred to I would lean towards the YS 91.
YS 91 = 26.6 OZ including muff (I think)
Webra 120 = 26 OZ without muff. Muff probably 4 - 5 OZ depending on which one you choose.
MDS 148 = about 30 - 32 OZ without muff.
If you hang to much weight on the front you will need to add additional weight to rear, there by increasing the overall weight of the bird.
"If you put a big enough engine on it even a brick will fly!" But, It will never 3D....
01-08-2002, 02:19 AM
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hey
THanks AAAA for all your help. I am putting a Webra 1.20 on the nose with a Jett muffler so i can get 4HP!!!!!! it will hover verynice and with muffler weighs 29oz. I am putting two hitec 225mgs in the tail and a digital on the rudder. I like the plane but i think i will modify where the wings screw onto. Any suggestions? anymore flying? Nice thread.....lets keep it up.
01-08-2002, 02:21 AM
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Aero-Works Edgo 540 .60/.90
Also AAAA has informed me that his plane crashed due to elvator snapping in half in flight. He and I think (aeroworks too) that putting kevlar or such flying wires would be very money saving. Hope this helps yall.
01-08-2002, 02:25 AM
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Aero-Works Edgo 540 .60/.90
Oh NO! Here we go again with the aerobatic ARF failures.
Do we need to add this one to the list of.
H9 Edge
H9 Extra 330-L
Sig Sukhoi
Do we need to add this one to the list of.
H9 Edge
H9 Extra 330-L
Sig Sukhoi
01-08-2002, 04:27 AM
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Aero-Works Edgo 540 .60/.90
Okay... let's try to stay with the facts, here... before we all get too nervous to maiden our planes (mine should be here this week).
Quadruple A?... what can you tell us?
1) We must be talking about the horizontal stab here, not the elevator, right?
2) How was the stab handled throughout the build process? Any chance it was bumped around? Did the shipping box show any signs of abuse? Did you test the stab at all with a slight twist and/or up and down pressure? Did you do this with your wings and vertical stab and all control surfaces, as well?
3) Did the stab break in flight? How many flights of what duration did you get before the break? How many, and how easy, landings?
4) Where exactly did it break? What does the break look like? Can you post any pictures of the break?
5) What, exactly, did AW say? And, what support have they provided you with in this regard?
Thanks for any and all info.
Quadruple A?... what can you tell us?
1) We must be talking about the horizontal stab here, not the elevator, right?
2) How was the stab handled throughout the build process? Any chance it was bumped around? Did the shipping box show any signs of abuse? Did you test the stab at all with a slight twist and/or up and down pressure? Did you do this with your wings and vertical stab and all control surfaces, as well?
3) Did the stab break in flight? How many flights of what duration did you get before the break? How many, and how easy, landings?
4) Where exactly did it break? What does the break look like? Can you post any pictures of the break?
5) What, exactly, did AW say? And, what support have they provided you with in this regard?
Thanks for any and all info.
01-08-2002, 04:27 AM
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Okay - Need more info than that.......
AAAA,
We need more info than that......have any pictures? Please tells us more about this failure.......I just glued my stab in tonight, and was impressed with the construction under the covering.
Tell us more please.....number of flights? Any bad landings, or other abuse to the airframe (if any), etc......
Thanks.
Pug
We need more info than that......have any pictures? Please tells us more about this failure.......I just glued my stab in tonight, and was impressed with the construction under the covering.
Tell us more please.....number of flights? Any bad landings, or other abuse to the airframe (if any), etc......
Thanks.
Pug
01-08-2002, 04:33 AM
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AAAA
Also, how well did the airframe do ? (Post crash???)
Sorry to hear this by the way.....so far I am really impressed with the bird. I will be greatly disappointed if this turns into another "H9 Edge 540 POS or H9 1/3 300 POS"......
Pug
Sorry to hear this by the way.....so far I am really impressed with the bird. I will be greatly disappointed if this turns into another "H9 Edge 540 POS or H9 1/3 300 POS"......
Pug
01-08-2002, 06:13 AM
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Aero-Works Edgo 540 .60/.90
Okay... looking through the thread it appears AAAA had over 25 flights on the plane. And, had given a bold warning about the need for guide/flying wires.
What made you give that warning, AAAA? Did you install wires at that point?... heading your own advice? Did the elevator flutter?... breaking the stab? I don't mean to sound like I'm giving you the third degree... just that this information will help us all if you feel like providing it.
I'm starting to get into this plane, now... as mine should be here this week. AW told me today that they're coming out at 8 lbs 4 oz with a 91 engine. A Saito 100 is just right on a 5 lb plane for 3D... so I was thinking Saito 1.50 or 1.80. They're only 6 oz heavier than the YS 91s. I figure to come in at 9 lbs... so these motors should be perfert for 3D. I'm leaning towards the 1.50 for the better fuel economy and less vibration... but to the 1.80 for the "why not?" factor. ;-)
Just gotta figure out if the stab (and any other areas) really needs some reinforcing or not. I guess I'll know more when mine arrives. Generally I'm hack'n stuff out... not reinforcing... we'll see.
What made you give that warning, AAAA? Did you install wires at that point?... heading your own advice? Did the elevator flutter?... breaking the stab? I don't mean to sound like I'm giving you the third degree... just that this information will help us all if you feel like providing it.
I'm starting to get into this plane, now... as mine should be here this week. AW told me today that they're coming out at 8 lbs 4 oz with a 91 engine. A Saito 100 is just right on a 5 lb plane for 3D... so I was thinking Saito 1.50 or 1.80. They're only 6 oz heavier than the YS 91s. I figure to come in at 9 lbs... so these motors should be perfert for 3D. I'm leaning towards the 1.50 for the better fuel economy and less vibration... but to the 1.80 for the "why not?" factor. ;-)
Just gotta figure out if the stab (and any other areas) really needs some reinforcing or not. I guess I'll know more when mine arrives. Generally I'm hack'n stuff out... not reinforcing... we'll see.
01-08-2002, 06:39 AM
#64
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IT'S HERE, IT'S HERE!!!!!!!
Hooray, mine got here today. I must say I am very pleased, impressed and somewhat disappointed all at the same time. Pleased and impressed - This is the best looking ARF I have ever seen. The finish and covering is excellent, and the construction is very state of the art. Everything fits like a piston and cylinder in an INDY car. 
Disappointed - Aeroworks advertises a flying weight of 7 - 8 Lbs. The Manual which came with the 540 says flying weight of 6.5 - 7.5 Lbs. I put all the pieces and hardware on a digital scale. It came to 6 lbs even. 
This is just the aircraft and what came in the box without engine, radio gear, and battery. This bird needs to go on a DIET! 
Now I see why all the concern about what engine to use. Unless I do some lightening stuff the very least I am going to end up with is 8 Lbs, 6 OZ. Not what I had in mind.
Biggest culprits :
1. Landing gear = 8.6 oz. Get real! You could use this gear on a 30 Lb 1/4 scale.
2. Wing tube = 5 oz. You won't bend this one...
3. Engine mounting block and firewall - You could mount a DA-150 on that structure.
4. Metal hinges - Nice, but 2 oz + epoxy.
Don't get me wrong. I am still very excited over this plane and very hopeful it will preform as advertised. I just think there is some creative engineering to be done to get it to where it ought to be for a 60/90 size plane.
By the way, does anyone have any knowledge of the Jett Engineering 120 ? They advertise a ready to fly weight of 27 oz including muffler, and grantee it to turn an APC 16 x 8 at 9,500rpm. jettengineering.com/
Keep the discussions going
.
Disappointed - Aeroworks advertises a flying weight of 7 - 8 Lbs. The Manual which came with the 540 says flying weight of 6.5 - 7.5 Lbs. I put all the pieces and hardware on a digital scale. It came to 6 lbs even. This is just the aircraft and what came in the box without engine, radio gear, and battery. This bird needs to go on a DIET! Now I see why all the concern about what engine to use. Unless I do some lightening stuff the very least I am going to end up with is 8 Lbs, 6 OZ. Not what I had in mind. Biggest culprits :
1. Landing gear = 8.6 oz. Get real! You could use this gear on a 30 Lb 1/4 scale.
2. Wing tube = 5 oz. You won't bend this one...
3. Engine mounting block and firewall - You could mount a DA-150 on that structure.
4. Metal hinges - Nice, but 2 oz + epoxy.
Don't get me wrong. I am still very excited over this plane and very hopeful it will preform as advertised. I just think there is some creative engineering to be done to get it to where it ought to be for a 60/90 size plane.
By the way, does anyone have any knowledge of the Jett Engineering 120 ? They advertise a ready to fly weight of 27 oz including muffler, and grantee it to turn an APC 16 x 8 at 9,500rpm. jettengineering.com/
Keep the discussions going
.
01-08-2002, 07:12 AM
#65
Horizontal Stab Failure
This has happened to two airplanes including mine (the other had a Saito 100) in the exact same manner (according to AW):
The aircraft was straight and level, full throttle (setting up for a slow roll down the runway) at about 20' when the left horizontal stab came off the plane sending it instantly to the ground. Upon crash inspection both stabs were broken off at the root (couldn't tell if the right stab came off pre or post crash).
The plane was set up for 3D with approx 60deg of throw on the elevator via a well braced and greased pushrod (see pics) and had no play or flex. It was driven with a DS8231. No flutter was noticed at any time during flight. The metal hinges were used and were intact. The gaps were sealed (both sides) with ultracote.
The stabs were not damaged during shipping, travel or landing. The plane was flow aggressively through panics, waterfalls, torquerolls and high power tumbles (all the stuff it was made for).
Now I can see inside the stab. It is only 1/4"x3/4" balsa for the LE and TE of stab to support some demanding loads for this size/type of airplane.
The warning I gave regarding flying wires was after my crash. I immediately told AW. Rocco told me Friday that although he had no problems with the prototype he was going to retrofit his with flying wires and post this on the internet. I was waiting for him a to do this first.
Thinking back I may have had a warning sign. Partway through the last flight (#30), the elevator trim was hunting a bit, but I attributed this to an aft cg. I know now that the stab had probably cracked during some 3D maneuvers.
The fuse was totaled, but the wings appear nearly unscathed (pretty incredible considering the 50mph+ impact into dirt).
The plane is an incredible flyer. I can't wait to get another one going!
The aircraft was straight and level, full throttle (setting up for a slow roll down the runway) at about 20' when the left horizontal stab came off the plane sending it instantly to the ground. Upon crash inspection both stabs were broken off at the root (couldn't tell if the right stab came off pre or post crash).
The plane was set up for 3D with approx 60deg of throw on the elevator via a well braced and greased pushrod (see pics) and had no play or flex. It was driven with a DS8231. No flutter was noticed at any time during flight. The metal hinges were used and were intact. The gaps were sealed (both sides) with ultracote.
The stabs were not damaged during shipping, travel or landing. The plane was flow aggressively through panics, waterfalls, torquerolls and high power tumbles (all the stuff it was made for).
Now I can see inside the stab. It is only 1/4"x3/4" balsa for the LE and TE of stab to support some demanding loads for this size/type of airplane.
The warning I gave regarding flying wires was after my crash. I immediately told AW. Rocco told me Friday that although he had no problems with the prototype he was going to retrofit his with flying wires and post this on the internet. I was waiting for him a to do this first.
Thinking back I may have had a warning sign. Partway through the last flight (#30), the elevator trim was hunting a bit, but I attributed this to an aft cg. I know now that the stab had probably cracked during some 3D maneuvers.
The fuse was totaled, but the wings appear nearly unscathed (pretty incredible considering the 50mph+ impact into dirt).
The plane is an incredible flyer. I can't wait to get another one going!
01-08-2002, 07:30 AM
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Damn.....
Couple questions.....
I know this may seem silly but, no chance you scored the balsa while removing the covering for glueing purposes?
What are the black rods poking out of the stab? Is that the push rod?
Where is Rocco posting this information?
What was AW's response as far as a replacement?
Is AW suggesting flying wires like a DP Ultimate? I was always amazed how well the Ultimate tailfeathers (built very light) held together with the flying wires/string.
Scratch build another fuse for those wings!
Thanks.
Pug
I know this may seem silly but, no chance you scored the balsa while removing the covering for glueing purposes?
What are the black rods poking out of the stab? Is that the push rod?
Where is Rocco posting this information?
What was AW's response as far as a replacement?
Is AW suggesting flying wires like a DP Ultimate? I was always amazed how well the Ultimate tailfeathers (built very light) held together with the flying wires/string.
Scratch build another fuse for those wings!
Thanks.
Pug
01-08-2002, 07:43 AM
#69
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Aero-Works Edgo 540 .60/.90
You're reading my mind, Pug.
Scoring doesn't look likely as it broke outside the root. I would be interested in the answers to the rest of your questions, though.
I may have to rebuild the stab... if I made it a couple of ounces heavier that wouldn't be too bad... it would probably just help balance my engine choice. I'm speculating that I will need to put the rudder servo under the fuse in the tail, as well.
I'll have to wait and see... but I really don't want to put wing wires on it.
<sigh> Other than the H9 33% Cap and WM Rambler-45?... it's never as easy as I had hoped.
Scoring doesn't look likely as it broke outside the root. I would be interested in the answers to the rest of your questions, though.
I may have to rebuild the stab... if I made it a couple of ounces heavier that wouldn't be too bad... it would probably just help balance my engine choice. I'm speculating that I will need to put the rudder servo under the fuse in the tail, as well.
I'll have to wait and see... but I really don't want to put wing wires on it.
<sigh> Other than the H9 33% Cap and WM Rambler-45?... it's never as easy as I had hoped.
01-08-2002, 07:53 AM
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A thought.....
As I said, I just glued my stab in tonight. I noticed that the wood above the stab is lite ply (AAAA can you verify this?). Anyway, it seemed pretty sharp edged. I wonder if this contributed to the failure. Maybe some tri stock in this area to help spread out the vibrations?
I really don't want to have to worry about this plane coming apart. Not real sure what I can do with mine now that it is in. If I still had the stab out I would lay in some carbon fiber to this area......
This is one fine ARF Rocco, let's get this fixed......
Pug
I really don't want to have to worry about this plane coming apart. Not real sure what I can do with mine now that it is in. If I still had the stab out I would lay in some carbon fiber to this area......
This is one fine ARF Rocco, let's get this fixed......
Pug
01-08-2002, 08:20 AM
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Derek and Webra 1.20
I am putting a Webra 1.20 on the nose with a Jett muffler so i can get 4HP!!!!!! it will hover verynice and with muffler weighs 29oz.
I have looked at the Webra 1.20 myself. I had a Webra speed .61 that ran like a banshee
.I don't mean to dispute your numbers but I am confused. The Webra site list the 1.20 at 25 oz, and Horizon list it at 26 oz. The Jett site list the Jett Stream muffler at 7oz, and the Jett Turbo at 5.6 oz. How did you come up with 29 oz ? If I can't get the Edge below 8 lbs ready to fly I am seriously considering the Webra 1.20.
Thanks, Robert.
01-08-2002, 07:49 PM
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Thanks for all the info, Quadruple A!
If you're up to answering one more question... what are those black rods poking through the stab?
If you're up to answering one more question... what are those black rods poking through the stab?
01-08-2002, 08:57 PM
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Aero-Works Edgo 540 .60/.90
Hey Pug!
You said you were impressed by the stab constuction? I won't have my hands on mine until Friday to check for myself. But, I'm thinking we're way okay here... especially after talking to AW.
All of these planes have limitations. I'm sure we all know that. I could blow up any of my 3D planes in a heart beat. Those huge throws are not meant for controlling the plane while the wings are flying... but rather for getting the most out of the prop blast while hovering.
You said you were impressed by the stab constuction? I won't have my hands on mine until Friday to check for myself. But, I'm thinking we're way okay here... especially after talking to AW.
All of these planes have limitations. I'm sure we all know that. I could blow up any of my 3D planes in a heart beat. Those huge throws are not meant for controlling the plane while the wings are flying... but rather for getting the most out of the prop blast while hovering.
