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New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

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New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

Old 09-02-2005, 12:17 PM
  #101  
fairplay
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

I noticed on the inside that there is a pre-cut place to mount the charger lead for the receiver. It is directly opposite from the on/off switch. My concern is that the exhaust might find a way to oil it up since that does put it on the exhaust side.
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Old 09-02-2005, 12:52 PM
  #102  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**


ORIGINAL: fairplay

I noticed on the inside that there is a pre-cut place to mount the charger lead for the receiver. It is directly opposite from the on/off switch. My concern is that the exhaust might find a way to oil it up since that does put it on the exhaust side.
Interesting... cause i didn't think the wing mount was the sturdiest setup. Taking it on and off for every charge i'm sure to damage either the delicate belly scoop or those plast screws. Maybe mount the charger switch and put half an air scoop in front of it to block exhaust. I think they sell premade scale airscoops somewhere

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Old 09-02-2005, 03:40 PM
  #103  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

As mine has not arrived yet, I cannot give any advice here. Can the factory supplied on-off switch be replaced with one having a charge jack incorporated such as the Electrodynamics HD, JR HD, MPI or similar? Does anyone have any input to offer on the questions I posted previously[]?
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Old 09-02-2005, 03:41 PM
  #104  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

so will this be released as an arf with no radio anytime soon? i might get one to fly just to have something new....
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Old 09-03-2005, 05:56 PM
  #105  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

Hello all,

I flew my new p51 PTS this past weekend. I am a newbie on this forum, but not a newbie to R/C. I fly lots of electrics and had gotten out of gas planes. I decide to add this plane to my electric hanger so that I could make some noise with the rest of the club members and also train my 6 year old son with over the next year. Here are my thoughts.

1. I took off the air brakes on the landing gear immediately after looking at the 3 bladed prop. It is nearly flat out at the ends. I figured this would act like enough of a speed brake when you chopped the power. It did.

2. I put a servo in the wing for the flaps as flying around with flaps down seemed all wrong to me and I wanted to try both ways at the flick of a switch.

3. I sanded the leading edge dowel slightly to get it to insert completely. I did not shorten it just sanded around it to make it beveled at the end. Don't make it to small, thus too loose.

4. I left the leading edge slats in place for first flights to see what they did for the plane.

1st flight:

For take off I left the flaps in neutral position for the first try. Take off roll was very polite into a slight cross wind off the end of the runway. I held up elevator but gave no rudder input. Tracked straight and the tail came up as I eased off the elevator. I advanced the throttle to full and she lifted off very scale like. This is not a rocket take off, just a steady climb out. Power felt way soft but offered a stead climb. I got to altitude in a climbing turn and proceeded to push elevator trim to the stops to limit climb under power. On the ground the elevator was trimmed level so she does have the trainer climb under power !QUOT!feature!QUOT!.

I could not loop from level as there just was not enough power generated by the engine and prop combo. Did not try to roll as I still had the leading edge slats in place.

I shot a first trial approach to see how she slowed down. As I turned final, I heard some of the fellows in the club saying I was too high and too fast since they thought I was going to land. I pulled back the power to 1/4 and approached the end of the field. Before I go to the end of the field I was already down to landing height and getting slow, so I blipped in some throttle a few times to carry the end of the runway and decided to show the boys how she could land from a too high and to fast final.

As I crossed the runway she was nice and flat with a touch of elevator, touchdown was greased in for a 3 point landing and some applause from the fellows. Upon taxi back I had a crowd who wanted to see her some more. Everyone was impressed seeing a Warbird slow down so much and land so soft.

Final thoughts:

This was the first flight on the engine and we did not touch anything as she started and ran nice. Power should come up more as it runs a few more times, but as a trainer will do what they say.

I decide to pull the leading edge slats off (NACA Droops) for the next flight to see what would change. The droops are only held on with clear tape, so its a 30 second transition. Ground handling was immediately different as on start of take off run, a slight crosswind gust spun her around to the right in a circle. Ok, that was a difference, more like a typical tail dragger now. I bought her around and this time used some rudder and applied power more carefully. This time the take off was normal and while not tons of climb-out power, she did feel lighter climbing without the droops.

Turns without the droops felt better when adding coordinated rudder and I could get her to loop now but just barely from level flight. The top of the loop was not pretty, needless to say. Landing approaches still slowed down with the 3 blade prop requiring some throttle management to carry the field, but did not feel the need to come in hot and flat like most warbirds, no wing rock or stall sensation at fairly slow approach speeds even without the droops.

I ran out of time to fly, but everyone if the club said the same thing. Throw a 10 x 6 prop on that baby and she will start to shine in her transition from a trainer to a fun P51 for the more advanced flyer.

I hope this gives some a feel for this plane.

-Blee

Naperville IL Propmasters
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Old 09-03-2005, 06:04 PM
  #106  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

bleemer,
Very nice flight report and before I finished reading your post was thinking O.K., so what APC 2 blade prop will be best to try first. Any other issues that you have encountered? I can't seem to get anyone to answer the earlier questions that I posted. I am also wondering if my NIB OS 46FX might slip right in. Thanks...
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Old 09-03-2005, 08:43 PM
  #107  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

Bleemer,

Thanks for the excellent flight report. I experienced nearly identical flights today when I was asked to perform the maiden flights for two P-51 PTS aircraft. The exception was that I was able to loop (trainer-like) and roll (elevator required thru inverted) both aircraft. For clarity I will refer to them as PTS #1 and PTS #2. Both pilots have quite some time since solo, one is still advancing his skills on an Alpha (PTS #2), the other has moved thru several other planes (PTS #1)--currently flying an Ultra Stik. Before I get more specific I want to mention that our field is grass, about 2- 2 1/2 inches high, the ground is a bit uneven and rough at this time of year but not bad. We had a mild breeze (6-10 mph) varying from down the runway to a full 90-degree crosswind.

1. Both aircraft had had the airbrake devices turned to be more like gear doors. PTS #1 had working flaps while PTS #2 had them fixed in the full down position.

2. First flight was with PTS #1. I decided to perform the take off and initial part of the trim flight with the flaps up. As I would with any 'warbird', I brought throttle up slowly. The plane tracked well, the tail lifted as it accelerated. I allowed it to decide when it was going airborne and after about 250 feet she flew off. Trim was off on elevator, aileron and rudder., but easily controlable. My very first impression was that she was 'way too slow.' However, as I was to learn quickly, that was simply a pre-conception that 'mustangs' should be fast. Under full power the plane had a steady, somewhat shallow, climb. After reaching altitude, throttle to about 1/2, I trimmed her for straight and level, hands off. Other than feeling the roll was a bit sluggish (like a trainer) and that throttle changes did not seem to have much effect (between 1/2 and full), the plane was steady, consistant, maneuvering much like an Alpha trainer. Of course the exception is that I had to 'fly' out of a bank back to wings level, as I would expect. Also, with throttle at idle the plane definitely descended, although the descent angle could easily be reduced because the plane was controllable at quite low airspeed. Achieving comfortability with the plane, I reduced power to about 1/3, let the plane slow while holding level and hit the flap switch. NO pitch changes were observed although the plane began gaining altitude. A couple of clicks less throttle and she leveled out. Two patterns, each a little lower, demonstrated great controlability. Flaps still down, I flew the landing pattern, keeping about three clicks of throttle on base to final to touch down. It did a slight bounce and settled the tail. Taxi back was un eventful. The owner decided to remove the leading extensions for the next flight, which he would fly.

3. The maiden flight of PTS #2 (fixed flaps down) was much the same, with only two notable differences. The take off was shorter by about 30% with the fixed flaps, and the there was much less tendency for the nose to drop when pulling power to idle. After trimming for neutral, transmitter was given to the owner. Since all his limited experience is with an Alpha trainer, he had to concentrate on 'rolling out' of the banks. Otherwise, he was delighted with plane. By the time he set up for landing the wind was gusting, 90-degree crosswind. Although he would had landed his Alpha, he elected to have me land. With minor rudder inputs the final and landing were uneventful, although it did 'hop' twice. My opinion is that the gear is a bit springy. Definitely so comapred to my Funtana 40, which I greased in four times this morning!. The owner was ecstatic. He intends to make this his primary plane.

Unfortunately, this report can not end on this happy note. PTS #1 did not survive its second flight. After he removed the wing extensions, the owner took the plane up. The plane still 'looked' slow and some slight re-trimming was required. However, it flew well. After about five minutes he offered me the transmitter for my opinion on its current performance. The roll rate was increased nearly double. Other than the faster roll rate I didn't notice and changes in the performance of rolls and loops. I returned the transmitter to him. Some few moments later he had a thumb glitch (fight versus left), and in recovering put the plane into a climbing left turn. It fell off into a very nose down spiral at about 150-175 feet altitude. He was unable to recover, believing that he had had no control response from an instant before it banked over. Possibly he had a battery/switch problem as when I looked the transmitter, shortly after the 'thud', the throttle stick was full forward yet we had never heard the engine speed up.

The fuselage was pretty much destroyed from the firewall to behind the wing tailing edge. Wing had minor damage where it would mate with the left, forward fuselage. Engine, tank and servos appeared undamaged. All hinges were secure, all control horns and keepers were secure and in place, and all control surfaces were free and not binding. He was going to post-crash investigation of the radio fucntion, but I was already late for an appointment and had to leave.

Overall, I thought the performance of both planes was acceptable. However, my opinion is that they do not live up to the hype. Although I am sure some will sucessfully learn to fly with one, I would not recommend the P-51 PTS as a first plane. I think Hangar 9's Alpha, even the Arrow, are a better choice. I also think it falls short of performance as a 'sport scale' P-51. Hangar 9 has ARFs that do this much, much better.

I must say, however, that if one accepts the compromises the PTS would be one cool looking 'second plane.'
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Old 09-04-2005, 09:36 AM
  #108  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

We have one, a demo from the local Hobby Town.It was a dog in out of the box form.We removed the air brakes and leading edge slats.Then we removed the restrictor disc in the muffler.Last but not least we put a APC 11X7 prop on her.Now she is a nice flying sport plane with good omph.We are at 5000 ft elevation here and we need all the power we can get.With these mods at sea level she should perform relly well.
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Old 09-04-2005, 12:18 PM
  #109  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

A followup to my previous post --

Following a discussion with three other observers and no apparent radio component malfunction, I believe that the loss of control and resulting crash of PTS #1 was pilot error.

I also oberved a third PTS fly today, and it behaved as a sport scale should. The airbrakes were removed, the flaps were fixed in the up position, and the aileron control links were in the next to outside hole--not the outside as it came out of the box. The flight I observed was the sixth or seventh flight of this particular aircraft.
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Old 09-04-2005, 03:19 PM
  #110  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

Thanks guys for the flight reports and updates.
If I am reading into this correctly then can the airbrakes, exchange the three blade prop for a two blade 10 or 11X7 APC and increase the control throws on the ailerons? What is the diameter of the supplied spinner?
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Old 09-04-2005, 04:23 PM
  #111  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

So do you guys think for a first time flight & flyer don't put the flaps in the down position?

Also, aren't we all forgetting something here... the aim of this plane is to be a trainer with some sport abilities later on... immediately taking it to it's max sport config and expecting big things I don't think represents what hangar-9 was trying to accomplish here... dont' get me wrong, fly the wings off it but just let's remember not to expect too much from this craft.
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Old 09-04-2005, 11:05 PM
  #112  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**


ORIGINAL: olstoney

As mine has not arrived yet, I cannot give any advice here. Can the factory supplied on-off switch be replaced with one having a charge jack incorporated such as the Electrodynamics HD, JR HD, MPI or similar? Does anyone have any input to offer on the questions I posted previously[]?

Sure you can replace the switch with a dual function switch and charge jack. I have an MPI switch/charge jack unit with an LED voltage indicator that I am going to put in mine.

There is also a precut opening on the right side of the fuse to mount the charge jack, just cut the covering and buy a charge jack mount kit. This side is in the exhaust stream though as others have mentioned.

-Blee

Naperville IL Propmasters club
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Old 09-04-2005, 11:33 PM
  #113  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

One thing I forgot in my p51 PTS Review.

When I mounted the tail feathers, I added a larger washer on the bottom of the bolts thinking this would help prevent crushing the balsa bottom when tightening. It did help, but even when tight the elevator can still be wiggled left to right a small amount. Since I don't plan to remove the tail feathers for transport, I am going to take this back apart and epoxy the tail feathers in place as I don't like the wiggle.

Since this plane will be in the hands of some new flyers here is a hint for doing this fix.
When you do this you need to remove the covering to expose the bare wood. Mark the elevator at the fuselage sides while trial fit in place and then take back apart to remove the covering inside your lines. Some people do this carefully with an exacto knife, but you risk cutting into and weakening the wood. I prefer to use a soldering iron to simply melt the covering away from the wood. Works fast too.

-Blee

Naperville IL Propmasters club
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Old 09-05-2005, 02:53 AM
  #114  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

Blee,
Thanks, don't forget to double check the elevator for squareness with the wing before applying the epoxy. Just finished a Midwest Aerobat that was modified for use as a fun fly. These have a bolt on elevator assembly too. I converted the plane from rubber band wing hold down to bolt down and made it into a taildragger. I had to elongate the holes in the elevator sideways about 1/8" to get eveything square to the wing. Just a thought to share.
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Old 09-05-2005, 10:49 AM
  #115  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

Tony,
I observed the third pts' maiden flight a few days before your report. Initially, the owner took to the air with airbrakes, down flaps, droops,etc. The idea was for him to fly and allow Doug (instructor) land the aircraft, since the owner stated he had never landed before.
It flew well, appeared to be easy to control, but at full throttle was incredibly slow. After 3 or 4 minutes it appeared to run out of fuel.
I don't know if it was fully fueled or if the airbrakes forced the use of constant full throttle and thus, greater fuel consumption.
The result was a deadstick situation for a student who was unable to hand the transmitter to his instructor due to insufficient altitude.
Luckily, the crash occured in the weeds and damage was limited to the tail section which was "whipped" and nearly broken off. It was expertly repaired within a day or two.
Before the flight we had noticed slackness of the coating on one side of the tail section. It actually looked like concealed damage to the underlying structure, possibly from handling during shipping. A club member offered to take the plane for a quick heat treatment, which seemed to set it right. I wondered if the tail section had been weakened during shipping.
I also witnessed the successful flights of this plane mentioned in Tony's earlier post. I can't wait to get my pts in the air----with the help of Doug or Tony, of course.
Steve
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:15 PM
  #116  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

Steve,

I also witnessed the maiden flight of PTS #3. Decided not to mention it as I didn't want probable operator errors to be misconstrued as possible problems with the ARF. After the mishap, it was detemined the plane still had fuel, so most probable cause the engine out was that it had been set too lean prior to take off. One thing to be noted here is that the descent rate of an airbrake equipped PTS is quite steep. It definitely surprised all of the observers, and more importantly the pilot, at how quickly the plane lost altitude, espicially compare to how it would float along at very slow speed with power on!

As an aside, Steve, I don't think you will have difficulty once you get used to the technique changes between tail dragger and tricycle landing gear!

Tony
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Old 09-06-2005, 12:56 PM
  #117  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

So what is the consensus... flaps down or neutral for maiden flight by new pilots
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Old 09-06-2005, 01:50 PM
  #118  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

I test flew this new offering from H9 for a newbie on the holiday Monday. The fellow that bought this has no RC plane experience at all but has driven RC buggies.

The owner put the plane together as per the DVD that comes with it and had all the go slow in place with flaps at the recommended starting position for a begginer. I asked about the motor being broke in and was told it comes ready broke in! Hmm, never heard of that before but the motor started right up and had a great idle. Very nice ARF as is custom from H9.

Line up and start the take off, dropped a wing tip and a horrid scraping sound (we fly off pavement) as one of the wheels came rolling off and continued on for 80 feet or so

OK, checked all the wheel collars now, all were loose....suggest using blue loctite to other owners and filing a small flat spot on the axles.

Throttle up and off we go, held a little up elevator then relaxed it so the tail comes up nicely (the wheels are so far forward I think you would have a hard time getting it to nose over), more power and the P51 gently lifts up.

It deffinately flys slowly which is wwhat you want for first time pilots. Turns I thought were better when some rudder was added but make sure you use up elevator in the turns or it will drop pretty quick. I was able to loop from level flight although it was pretty oval shaped! Once up high I throttled right back and kept feeding in up elevator to see how it would stall. Its nose dropped and the plane bobbed like a dolphin till power was added.

Landing was simple, keep the nose down a little and flare for an easy three pointer. I think beginners will tend to flare too soon casuing the plane to pitch up if not too careful.

Is it for a beginner? That's a good question. It sure looks much better than the traditional boxy trainer and once all the go slow stuff has been removed and you have working flaps it would make a great sprt plane that you can grow into. IMO you could learn to fly if just starting off but you will need help from an instructor. I would leave all the go slow stuff on it till you are comfortable with basic flight, take off, landings etc. H9 I think have a winner here and one which you will start to see at clubs all over. Once all the training aids have been removed, prop the plane different and I think you have a very nice sport and looking P51. The invasion stripes and yellow tail really stand out in the sky which helps in orientation.

The owner of this particular P51 did very well on the buddy box and I only took over if he started to fly too low! After the first and second flights he was all smiles which is what owners will be doing a lot of!

Mike
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Old 09-07-2005, 09:01 PM
  #119  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

Yes, Tony, I later learned lean mixture was the cause of the conk-out. Seems like the first culprit blamed is always something that could not be prevented.....at least that's my approach...lol.
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Old 09-08-2005, 12:52 PM
  #120  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

You more experienced guys probably know this but don't leave this plane sitting on it's wheels for too long during storage. The foam tailwheel will not come back to round and will have a flat spot no-matter how long you give it.

The guys at horizon hobby recommend replacing it with their DUB75TW, which is a 3/4" diameter (19mm) tail wheel ($2)

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Old 09-08-2005, 03:28 PM
  #121  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

Mine came today and other than it not being on the channel I requested (I was given a choice of four) and the best efforts of UPS to destroy the box (2 holes in it), the plane is not damaged.

If anyone is intersted in the 5 channel JR computer radio and receiver on CH 25, or knows someone who may be, please send me a PM. I'm performing surgery tomorrow to install a Hitec receiver and a HD charge switch.
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Old 09-08-2005, 03:38 PM
  #122  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

i got a feeling that there are going to be a lot of JR 5Ch radios on ebay with this deal.
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Old 09-08-2005, 11:37 PM
  #123  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

mine came in today and i hope to put it together this weekend.man it looks sweeeeet.hopefully i can transition to it from my nexstar without any problems.i plan on practicing on the computer first...cant wait to see it in the air.
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Old 09-09-2005, 01:09 AM
  #124  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

if theylld ditch the radio and engine they would sell alot more
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Old 09-09-2005, 06:56 AM
  #125  
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Default RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?**

i agree. Some people already have their own radio equipment, and don't need the JR radio.
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