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Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

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Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

Old 11-21-2005, 09:00 PM
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desmobob
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Default Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

I just received my Ultimate .46 from Raidentech. This little bipe is too good to be true for $120. A look inside the fuselage shows all laser-cut wood parts with perfect fit, glued with CA not hot glue. Nice covering job, painted fiberglass cowl, etc.. This airplane looks very, very similar to The World Models Ultimate .46, but the dimensions are a bit different (span and length).

One glitch: the wing incidence template shown in the (photocopied) manual was not included with the airplane. I called Raidentech and the guys on the phone were very helpful and a pleasure to deal with, but after some asking around the shop, they told me the template doesn't come with any of the kits. They sounded sincere and I tend to believe them, but who knows....

This parts are a pair of laser cut plywood peices that slide over the ends of both wings to hold them in correct spacing and incidence while you drill the center and wing cabanes for the attachment screws. It is going to be a real trick to do this without the templates.

Has anyone assembled this ARF?
Did yours have the templates?
Could you carefully trace them for me? I'll send a SSAE to you....

Or... has anyone assembed The World Models Ultimate ARF?
Could you send me a copy of the templates from that kit? I think they might work.

Or... if anyone knows a trick or technique for setting up biplane wings, I'd sure like to hear about it. I do have an incidence meter.

Thanks for any help, and Happy Thanksgiving,
desmobob


Old 11-22-2005, 08:34 AM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

Actually, it might not be very difficult to slap together a pair of those templates if.......

I've discovered insulation foam and have been using it for EVERYTHING around the model shop (and the house too). I've gotten to the point with it that I think it just might be usable to fix anything. Like for example, the throw-out bearing on the wife's Honda is showing some looseness and

Anyway, I use my scroll saw on the foam and can whip out two identical templates like that in about 2-3 minutes.

Draw a paper template of one wing's airfoil view. (The tips are flat, right? So trace out the wing's airfoil using the wing) Position it on a piece of foam and draw it on the foam. Measure out where the top wing would be on the a/c in relationship to the lower wing and draw just the lower line of the top wing where it ought to be on your template. Stack two pieces of foam and run that through the scroll saw. Taa daa!!!

The foam is thicker than the templates I got in my WM Ultimate ARF box. So they're going to be easier to use than my thin plywood ones. So I've already cut out a couple of template doublers to thicken my templates so they won't want to tilt while I'm using them. Took me less than a minute because I already have a template to draw on the foam.

Since you're not going to have exact measurements for exactly where the top wing is to go, if I were you, I'd leave cutting the top wing saddle into the foam templates until you've got the lower wing on the fuselage and the fuselage to top-wing structure on the a/c. Then you can easily measure the distance from the top wing's leading and trailing edged to the lower wing's leading and trailing edge. Those two distances (which are probably going to be the same distance if there is no decalage) combined with a measurement from the lower wing perpendicular up to somewhere on the top wing's belly would give you a very good idea of where to position the top wing saddle on your foam templates. Obviously, using whatever measurements happen while assembling isn't what you want, so you are going to need help from someone who already has the model to give you the dimensions. hhmmmmmmmmm wonder if a WM Ultimate..... hhhmmmmmm

The templates really aren't a do-or-die requirement btw. But they're going to help bigtime to steady the two wings as you're connecting them. The interplane struts really ought to do a lot of the support work while you're aligning and drilling. Of course, they aren't going to provide you with very accurate alignment.

But having the foam templates ought to be worth the couple of minutes to make them.

BTW, while you've got the foam handly, whip out fuselage saddles to sit the fuse in while working on it. They take a couple of minutes to make and save a BUNCH of hanger rash and balancing the fuse in your lap etc etc. The foam cuts like butter on the scroll saw. Cut a couple of verticals, check out if they're tall enough, then glue a foam "foot" at the bottom of each vertical. Takes about 2-3 minutes for two. And you can sit the a/c into the structures to "clamp" them while the glue sets. A no-brainer job that takes less than a heartbeat and you got big-time valuable pieces that cost almost nothing.
Old 11-22-2005, 08:49 AM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

I don't know if this will help you because my .46 Ultimate is from World Models but.........

The plywood template that came in my ARF measures:
The stagger is about 32mm
The measurement from TE to TE is 198mm
The measurement from LE to LE is the same
The measurement "straight up and down from top wing centerline to bottom wind centerline is 195mm

Obviously, the two wings seem to have the same AOI.
Old 11-22-2005, 06:04 PM
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desmobob
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?


ORIGINAL: darock

I don't know if this will help you because my .46 Ultimate is from World Models but.........

The plywood template that came in my ARF measures:
The stagger is about 32mm
The measurement from TE to TE is 198mm
The measurement from LE to LE is the same
The measurement "straight up and down from top wing centerline to bottom wind centerline is 195mm

Obviously, the two wings seem to have the same AOI.

That's very helpful; thanks very much darock! Now I know I can make a jig and get the wings mounted properly. I just happen to have a couple of chunks of foam insulation in the garage.... [8D]

I was mostly concerned about incidence. My Dave Patrick 1.20 Ultimate has 0-0 wing incidences but I wasn't sure if that was just that particular model. I guess this little Ultimate does, too.

I'm starting to believe the model is the same as a World Models Ultimate, minus a couple of features. Though the box says "Ultimate-46" and has no indication of any manufacturer, the instructions are obviously copied directly from a World Models kit (even has "World Models" in a couple of pages). I think this is a World Models Utlimate, minus the usual World Models pilot figure, transparent second cowl, and spinner. (Oh.. and minus the wing alignment/incidence template!)

Thanks again for your help. I appreciate it.

Good flying,
desmobob

Old 11-22-2005, 06:13 PM
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desmobob
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

By the way darock, one more question, if I might ask:

What size engine did you put in your Ultimate? It looks so tiny and light, I may forego the TT .46 Pro I was planning to use and install an ST .40 and mini and micro servos. I also have an ST .34 Heli engine that weighs around 12 ounces and puts out about the same HP as a .40. Hmm.... that might be the ticket! That would make for a very light airplane (and longer flights from that little fuel tank).

Good flying,
desmobob

Old 11-22-2005, 06:46 PM
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Dewey2
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

What size four stroke does this plane take? Maybe a YS 53? And dang they got some deals freaking arf trainer for 30 something buxs[X(]
Old 11-22-2005, 06:58 PM
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

I have also purchased the Raidentech clone.
I am sending mine back becaues of no wing templates and I feel
that the quality is no where near the World models "original"

I think this Raidentech is a poor copy of the World models plane.
The instruction sheet is copied from the World models
with the company logo erased.

I guess the "Accept no Substitute"
is a good and true saying
especially in this case.

I will keep you all informed about the customer service.
Old 11-22-2005, 10:36 PM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

Yes, mine has 0-0 for the two wings.

As for the engine.... I'm putting a .46ax in the little sucker and am frankly scared to death by the prospect of that MONSTER on that little sucker. Why would I do that? I got a .46ax sitting in it's box waiting for me to finish the next a/c, and the Ultimate is "the next" one. I plan to put together a Siren after the Ultimate and figure the Ultimate would be more appropriate to get the .46ax! Truth is, I've got a 20 year old OS .40 on a little Hots and a 20 year old OS .45 on my knock-around plane and figure to retrofit one of them into the Ultimate if the .46ax is too much engine. I was going to use the .40 right off, but decided to use the new one just to break it in. All three engines are around the same weight.

BTW, I'm putting a 35oz/in mini servo in the aileron hole because it's gotta push 4 ailerons and all the connecting linkage. I figure there isn't really much force on those short chord ailerons but there's a lot of linkage and 4 of them. I also am putting 1 ounce servos in the tray just because it seems right to use something slightly less than standards. Not any better reasoning that I used about the engine, but what the heck....
Old 11-22-2005, 10:49 PM
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desmobob
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?


ORIGINAL: darock

Yes, mine has 0-0 for the two wings.

As for the engine.... I'm putting a .46ax in the little sucker

You should have plenty of power.

Have fun,
desmobob
Old 11-22-2005, 11:01 PM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

Hey, I just went to the RaidenTech website.

Their Ultimate has got to be a World Models without the few doodads mentioned. Heck, the color scheme is identical. And looking closely at the details of the a/c.... it's the same all over. Jeez, and it was what? $30 cheaper? Nah, it was $40 less! You got a deal.

BTW, I would guess that the interplane struts would serve as a helpful guide to laying out your biplane templates.

And another suggestion......... I just came up from the shop. Last thing I did was knock the 3 blind-nuts out that hold the gear on the Ultimate. I've been a huge fan of nylon hold-downs since nylon bolts first showed up in modeling. It's quick and easy and dead simple to make that retrofit and I proved just a few days ago how valuable the swap is. I landed long on the 6th or 7th flight of a new model. I was braindead at the time and the Sukhoi was hauling a-uh... uh... going really fast. The overrun area is just recently harvested soybeans and would have been death for the underside of the Sukhoi if the big old iron stove bolts that came in the box had been holding the gear on. As it was, the nylon bolts popped and only the cowl chin got scraped. Oh yeah, and my nicely painted wooden prop busted (wooden props do much the same service for you for the engines that nylon bolts do for you for the airframe).

Looks like the wind and cold is gonna be with me for a couple more days, so tomorrow the Ultimate is going to get a lot of attention. It's really hell to be retired....
Old 11-22-2005, 11:12 PM
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Dewey2
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

No its not the World Models, look close its different.
Old 11-22-2005, 11:15 PM
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?


ORIGINAL: darock

Hey, I just went to the RaidenTech website.

Their Ultimate has got to be a World Models without the few doodads mentioned. Heck, the color scheme is identical. And looking closely at the details of the a/c.... it's the same all over. Jeez, and it was what? $30 cheaper? Nah, it was $40 less! You got a deal.

BTW, I would guess that the interplane struts would serve as a helpful guide to laying out your biplane templates.

And another suggestion......... I just came up from the shop. Last thing I did was knock the 3 blind-nuts out that hold the gear on the Ultimate. I've been a huge fan of nylon hold-downs since nylon bolts first showed up in modeling. <SNIP>

Looks like the wind and cold is gonna be with me for a couple more days, so tomorrow the Ultimate is going to get a lot of attention. It's really hell to be retired....
The Raidentech stuff is really inexpensive! I think the little Ulty was a steal. The trainer was a screamin' deal too!

I also use nylon bolts to hold the gear on my "rough service" airplanes. I even like to use the GEAR that's made of plastic if possible (the Du-Bro is tough and cheap... no more bending back bent aluminum gear!) and then attach it with plastic bolts. Works great on my SPAD Dominator, which is used as an airplane, hammer, prybar, etc.

Wind and cold, you say? I'm in upstate NY where the wind was blowing the snow around this afternoon. Four more months and it will start warming up again....

Good flying, and enjoy your retirement --just 12 years to go for me [:@]
desmobob
Old 11-23-2005, 02:56 PM
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

I have ordered several ARF's from Raidentech. The ARF's in general are a great deal. The 120 GeeBee, 120 Hellcat, and the 60 mustangs are especially good ARF's for the modeller on a small budget.
Old 11-28-2005, 03:51 PM
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desmobob
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

I finished the little Ultimate today. With a Super Tigre .40, ProSpin 2 1/2" spinner, HiTec 225 mini-servo on the ailerons and Futaba 3004s on everything else, it came in at four pounds six ounces. Unfortunately, it was quite nose-heavy. I took off the nice polished aluminum ProSpin spinner (heavy) and put on a light plastic one (left-over from a World Models ARF). I moved the 600 mah battery to the rear of the radio compartment and added some self-adhesive lead to the tail under the stab.

The very similar World Models Ultimate ARF comes with the center cabane struts already mounted. My kit did not have them mounted. But after I carefully mounted them, I found there were tiny pilot holes burned in the laser-cut fuse side doublers! If I had only known, it would have saved me a lot of time! It wasn't mentioned in the instructions....

After completing this model, I'm wondering what the connection is between this no-brand kit and a World Models kit. Maybe they are "seconds" or something like that? Or kits taken off the line when new employees are training/working? As I mentioned earlier, the instruction manual had "World Models" in it in a few places. But the instructions were a very incomplete poor photo copy.

There is a chance I'll get to fly it sometime before Spring. It all depends on the weather and how it matches up with my days off.

Over all, I'd recommend this kit to a skilled modeler who can work without a proper instruction manual, set wing incidences, etc.. For $120, it appears to be a steal. For someone less interested in fiddling around, the World Models Ultimate is also a real deal at $150. I may pick one up in the future to see just how it compares to my generic Ultimate.

Good flying,
desmobob


Old 11-28-2005, 05:49 PM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

The very similar World Models Ultimate ARF comes with the center cabane struts already mounted.
I've got two of the World Model Ultimates and none of the sturts are already mounted.

Now, they did pre-insert the hinges btw. And you'd best inspect before gluing to insure that each one lines up. A number of them were stuck way into one side and very little in the other.
Old 11-28-2005, 06:08 PM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

Hey, a question about the Raidentech Ultimate.....

Did they supply shortened horns for the connections between ailerons? The ones that came in the World Models boxes looked like your everyday aileron/rudder/elevator medium horn with the tops cut off to leave the bottom 3 holes. And you screw one to the top aileron sticking down, and one to the bottom aileron sticking up. If they did, then they did the same thing to you that World Models did to their customers.

The connect points for the two ailerons ought to be where a line drawn from the aileron hinge to the connect point is perpendicular to the connecting rod. And that same holds true for both top and bottom wing connect points. If you use a "tall" horn on the lower wing pointing up, and a "tall" horn on the top wing pointing down, the two surfaces will not move equally. They can't. One is going to move more than the other and it won't be the same one when moved up as when moved down.

I don't know who makes them, but I saw some "biplane aileron connection horns" in one of the local hobby shops today. I think they were $5.85 or somesuch. Their design places the connect point directly out from the TE of each aileron. hmmmm... It seemed like a lot of money for them puppies, and I think what made me laugh out loud was that there were only two in a package. Since I'd made my own just last night (and out of $2.00 worth of everyday hardware for all 4 horns) maybe that was why I laughed out loud... don't remember now.....

Since getting back into the hobby after a long layoff, almost no day passes by that I've not run into one of these silly deals. It really looks to me like these ARF producing Asians don't actually field test their production products. My Sukhoi had a couple of really braindead deals and the Ultimate has at least this one... but then I've only got it about half done.

Oh well, they surely are pretty and seem to be bringing lots of people into the hobby that wouldn't have come otherwise.
Old 11-28-2005, 07:57 PM
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desmobob
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?


ORIGINAL: darock

The very similar World Models Ultimate ARF comes with the center cabane struts already mounted.
I've got two of the World Model Ultimates and none of the sturts are already mounted.

Oh... I was sure I had read that somewhere. Guess I was mistaken. Did your instruction manual make you aware of the marked holes in the fuse sides for the cabanes?

Now, they did pre-insert the hinges btw. And you'd best inspect before gluing to insure that each one lines up. A number of them were stuck way into one side and very little in the other.
The generic Ultimate hinges were inserted, but the hinge slots were off center on two of the ailerons. It only took a couple of minutes to cut new slots. The depth was good.

Good flying,
desmobob



Old 11-28-2005, 08:15 PM
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?


ORIGINAL: darock

Hey, a question about the Raidentech Ultimate.....

Did they supply shortened horns for the connections between ailerons?
No... and the large control horns they supplied had hollow centers so they couldn't really be cut down for use to connect the aileron pairs. I dug around the shop, thinking I had some sets of the connection horns (a got a big bunch of nylon stuff in an auction lot) but it seems I either don't have any or couldn't find them. I took short sets of nylon horns and cut them down to the bottom hole. Not the perfect set-up, but it'll do for now.



It really looks to me like these ARF producing Asians don't actually field test their production products. My Sukhoi had a couple of really braindead deals and the Ultimate has at least this one... but then I've only got it about half done.

Oh well, they surely are pretty and seem to be bringing lots of people into the hobby that wouldn't have come otherwise.
I think it's a double-edged sword. The fantastic bargains lure new hobbyists who may then become either frustrated by the poor engineering, incomplete instructions and sub-standard hardware, or diappointed with the flying qualities of a poorly-engineered, poorly assembled model using sub-standard hardware. I just assembled one of the $38 trainers that RaidenTech sells. It would have the average newbie cursing and throwing tools around the shop in no time. [:@] I don't know how if flies yet.

The bargain ARFs do offer great value for someone who likes to, or is willing to, tinker, customize, improvise, upgrade, etc.. But sometimes, the bargain ARFs don't need any extra work...

I just started assembling a Hobbico TwinStar ARF. It was the same price as RaidenTech's Ultimate: $120. The quality is remarkable. I would not buy the four colors of covering and apply the beautiful trim scheme on a kit for $120. And if I decided to, I could try my best and still not do as good a job. This model seems to be my "best buy" in ARFs so far.

Good flying,
desmobob
Old 11-29-2005, 08:04 AM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

Yeah, "two edged sword" is a good analogy. Some of the errors I've seen in just the last three ARFs I've stuck together would definitely cut somebody's throat. And while on the subject of those errors..........

I'm really interested now in the way the aileron connection system for these .46 size Ultimates is done. I've actually plotted out the connection on paper (because I didn't build it on the a/c) to see just what it'd do to the ailerons and I'm amazed by what that shows.

I really would be very appreciative if someone who has a digital camera and one of these Ultimates that they built with the supplied hardware as suggested would take some pictures of the sucker from behind with the ailerons full up and full down and post the pictures.

It looks to me like the supplied hardware and installation would really screw up the way the ailerons move relative to each other. It really seems that the deflections aren't going to be anywhere close to equal when full up or full down. And it looks like the differential will be one way for full up and the opposite way for full down. It's almost hard to believe they'd setup the a/c like that. I'm talking about a differential between the aileron on the top wing versus the aileron on the bottom wing, not the aileron differential everyone knows about and uses on single wing a/c that's left:right/up:down differential. This layout on this biplane is going to give a differential between the top and bottom on one side AND the other side is going to give something opposite. Amazing....

You know, silly as it sounds, the a/c might actually benefit from such a "bad" rigging design. Maybe the imbalance pumps the drag way up and actually helps the pilot by slowing the a/c or maybe yawing it into the turn or something. And it's got to be not only an imbalance on the yaw axis, but looks like it could also hit the pitch axis as well. But it certainly has to have been blind luck if it's true that the result is favorable to flight performance.... whatever it is that's true..... and photos from directly behind will help show what is actually happening.

Anybody with a stock setup and a digital camera???? willing to help out?

Take the pictures from straight behind the a/c. Take one shot with the ailerons in neutral. Take one shot with them full left. And another shot with them full right. The idea is to see if there is deflection differential and which way(s) it goes.

tia
Old 11-29-2005, 05:44 PM
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ORIGINAL: darock

I'm really interested now in the way the aileron connection system for these .46 size Ultimates is done. I've actually plotted out the connection on paper (because I didn't build it on the a/c) to see just what it'd do to the ailerons and I'm amazed by what that shows.
I'll snap a few shots of mine later on, although I didn't use the stock control horns. I have epoxy curing on a TwinStar wing on the bench right now. I did use conventional horns -shortened-, not the proper type for linking biplane ailerons.

I've read in another thread about a CG error on WM's part in their Ultimate's instructions. I read this AFTER I balanced my generic Ultimate (using the supplied copy of the WM instructions). It finished up nice and light (4 lbs. 6 oz.) but I had to add three ounces of lead to the tail to balance it per the instructions. I was fretting about how dreadfully heavy the tail felt when I was moving it around the bench, then I read the CG error thread. I ended up removing half the lead I stuck on....

Good flying,
desmobob
Old 11-29-2005, 07:56 PM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

I've read in another thread about a CG error on WM's part in their Ultimate's instructions. I read this AFTER I balanced my generic Ultimate (using the supplied copy of the WM instructions). It finished up nice and light (4 lbs. 6 oz.) but I had to add three ounces of lead to the tail to balance it per the instructions.
I think I've posted in that thread about that "error". Near as I can tell, the balance point suggested by the instructions is not in error. Where they suggest seems to be right about 30% of the EFFECTIVE MAC of the a/c. I did some measuring on my Ultimate and some figuring on paper (and in the post in that thread) and what WM's instructions say looks correct, not in error. I think the guy who said there was an error was saying that his figuring had the suggested CG at something close to 40% (like 38% or such) and that was why his crashed. Well, figuring out where the effective MAC is on a biplane isn't exactly simple, but it is easy for a straight taper wing biplane that has identical wings. And there's something else about a 30% CG on a biplane. They often have a bit of enhanced pitch stability from their stagger or somesuch. Don't remember what it is, but do remember that they've got "extra". and....

Nobody has figured out the actual tail volume of the WM Ultimate. CG estimation without considering tail volume isn't actually give you much to go on really. And another thing about the WM Ultimate's horizontal tail and it's contribution to pitch stability. If you notice, the elevators aren't aero balanced. There is a good chance that is going to contribute to pitch stability because the aero balanced elevators that seem to be so popular today actually are more prone to stalling around their tips, and this Ultimate isn't going to have that going on. whatever....
Old 11-29-2005, 08:09 PM
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

I did use conventional horns -shortened-, not the proper type for linking biplane ailerons.
BTW, I saw some "biplane aileron linking" horns in one of our LHSs the other day. They were something like $5 a PAIR. (... a PAIR ??? ) and after looking at them awhile it dawned on me. They didn't mention a very important detail about them on the package. They really should both go on the same side of the surface depending on the wing stagger. They both ought to be on the top of the aileron if the biplane stagger was top wing forward, and a Staggerwing oughta have them on the bottoms. And truth is, it's dead simple and cheap to make "horns" for these aileron connections. And they're better and stronger and lighter. And the components are probably lying in your scrap box "in disguise", so the cost actually would be moot.
Old 11-29-2005, 08:24 PM
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ORIGINAL: desmobob


ORIGINAL: darock

I'm really interested now in the way the aileron connection system for these .46 size Ultimates is done. I've actually plotted out the connection on paper (because I didn't build it on the a/c) to see just what it'd do to the ailerons and I'm amazed by what that shows.
I'll snap a few shots of mine later on, although I didn't use the stock control horns.
I just checked out the movement, and the differential isn't enough to see. I put a control surface travel gauge on the upper and lower ailerons and was able to measure some differential: the top (driven) aileron lost about 1/16" of up travel and gained 1/16" of down travel. This is using small nylon control horns cut down to the first (lowest) hole, mounted between the ailerons - on top of the bottom aileron and on the bottom of the top aileron.

The way I figure (guess) it, any differential would just equate to a little extra drag, right? Some bipe models only have ailerons on one wing....



ORIGINAL: desmobob
I've read in another thread about a CG error on WM's part in their Ultimate's instructions.
ORIGINAL: darock
I think I've posted in that thread about that "error". Near as I can tell, the balance point suggested by the instructions is not in error.
I thought the other guy checked it all out using your figures and decided the WM people forgot to allow for the wing sweep. Anyway, the thread made me nervous. I'd rather maiden mine nose-heavy and put lead in her aft afterwards, if necessary.[8D]

Good flying,
desmobob
Old 11-29-2005, 08:32 PM
  #24  
desmobob
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

ORIGINAL: darock

I did use conventional horns -shortened-, not the proper type for linking biplane ailerons.
<SNIP> ...truth is, it's dead simple and cheap to make "horns" for these aileron connections. And they're better and stronger and lighter. And the components are probably lying in your scrap box "in disguise", so the cost actually would be moot.
I was going to whip up a proper set but ended up not bothering. I want to see how this little bipe flies. If it shows promise, I'll buy another kit (probably the WM version) and really do a careful assembly with an eye towards construction details and durability. My last little bipe (SIG Ultimate Fun Fly) became my most-flown model because of its convenience and great flight performance. There's a chance one of these little Ultimate ARFs will take it's place.

I have a nice new Dave Patrick Ultimate with a Saito 1.50 very carefully assembled and ready to fly. That will be the benchmark of flight performance (but not convenience in transporting to the field!).


Good flying,
desmobob
Old 11-29-2005, 10:09 PM
  #25  
da Rock
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Default RE: Ultimate .46 from Raidentech -- help?

I just checked out the movement,
That would suggest that your "home made" aileron connector horns are made LOTS better than the ARF supplied ones. Anything you do to move the connect points closer to a better position than the ARF has given us, is going to be a good thing.

any differential would just equate to a little extra drag, right?
Actually, probably more than just a little extra drag. The ailerons on that a/c only have to move about 10mm to give good roll rate. A difference in lift side-to-side probably does as much as a difference in drag side-to-side to make the a/c unpredictable and hard to sort. And everyone knows pretty much to look for adverse yaw and how to fix it.

But you hit it spot on. Fly it and see what it does.

BTW, the guy who posted his idea that the CG was screwed was triggered by his Ultimate having crashed on it's first flight. And my guess of why it did leans pretty heavy on what surface throws he had on the bird. I'd say that the aileron connection screw up would make any biplane a lot more prone to snap when it wants to, not when you want.

I thought the other guy checked it all out using your figures and decided the WM people forgot to allow for the wing sweep
Actually, I don't think he's seen my reasoning and figures yet. And from what he said, I think he was the one who forget about the sweep. I'm guessing he didn't figure on either the sweep or the stagger. For him to figure the proper CG was forward of the WM location, he had to have been figuring his location without one or the other or both.

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