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New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

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Old 10-05-2012, 08:39 AM
  #2251
CB36
 
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

I was using my low rate which is 1". I just checked the CG on my GP balance machine and the nose droops down at the recommended 5 1/4" back from the LE. I would have thought it was a tad nose-heavy and should have been a good starting point.

Hmmmmm
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:41 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

CB,

I grew up around Albany, in the Chatham area. Hi to my home area.

Now, for the GSS:

Steve's right.

The GSS has HUGE elevators, and it doesn't take much throw to get a lot of response. Try reducing your low rates by 50%, and see what that does. I would recommend that you reduce the high rates by 25% as well. Often, when I get a plane that "porpoises," I go into my throw settings and select elevator throws before taking off. I then reduce my "Up" elevator as I fly, usually testing it for response, and on low rates I reduce it until I can pull a hard loop and not 'snap' out of the loop. High rates are user's choice, of course, and being able to do a snap-roll is great fun.

It's hard to just pin it on the CG with such limited information, anyway. Where is your balance point on the wing (how far back from the leading edge?)?

~ Jim ~[8D]
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:03 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

Hi all,

About the landing gear, does anyone feel this would be suitable?

http://www.hangar-9.com/Products/Def...ProdID=HAN4908

Let me know - thanks!

Best,

Chris
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:27 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

How wide is the gear on the T-Craft? Looks like some pretty nice gear, other than that. Braces and extras.

Jim
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:30 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

Hi Jim,
I'm actually from Clifton Park...small world! Flying season nearly over here!

It balances dead-nuts at 5".

I just turned on my Tx, (Futaba 7C), and discovered that my elevator Expo was set at +45%, not minus as I wanted for making less sensitive around the middle. I'm thinking that may have been my problem.

I reduced my elevator throws as well as correcting my dumb mistake on the expo.

Thanks for the input, I'll report back after the next go-round!

CB
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:38 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

CB,

Sounds like you've found a likely factor or two. We'll be waiting to hear whether you see any improvement. I think you will. Then you can take it down from there.

I had a Corby Starlet from Sportsman aviation, and I set the factory throws on it. That thing was TWITCHY. I had to dial the elevator throws down quite a bit, on low rates. What a beautiful plane to fly after that, though.

You'll love your GSS, once you get it dialed in.

By the way, you're turning the GSS upside-down to get your CG reading, right? Standard low-wing CG stuff.

Keep us advised!

Jim
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:50 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

I am a total beginner so take my advice with a grain of salt but I have seen more crashes or complaints about aircraft that has been due to faulty Expo settings then just about anything else. I know a few guys that spend the entire day messing around with Expo settings only to fly worse every time. Because of these guys I have been reluctant to even mess with it. I did switch to high rates this past weekend and noticed how sensitiveshe is now so I may start experimenting but on low rates there is no need for expo on this plane at least for test or maiden flights. I now have about 3-4 hours on the plane since I got my issues resolved and boy am I starting to like it. I hope to be able to try my hand at IMAC with it next year but I still have some work to go!!
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

Cb36 - the suggested CG is pretty conservative as it is. I would attempt to get to suggested if it's not too much trouble (biting lip to not say any more on the topic).

Muttdog - properly used, expo is your friend, especially on your elevator! Don't let others ignorance of how it's properly used put you off! Play with it by trying one flight with 0, the next with 25, and another at 45 - all done in the same flying session. Big jumps make it easier to see/feel what your change has done, allowing you to decide what's right for you very quickly. 45% is not excessive, is a pretty common setting.

LOTS of confusion regarding - and + expo. The radio manfs. didn't see fit to standardize this. Some use positive to soften,some use negative? Figuring which is which is easy by watching the elevator travel as it compares to stick travel when making big changes as previously mentioned. Also, FWIW, lots of guys using a TON of expo on high rates, like 60%? I find 25-40% on low really helps when flairing. That's me though....

One last thing and I'll shut up. Regarding elevator throw on low rate. Suggest you decide max travel by seeing how much your plane can use without snapping? If it's not dropping a wing/snapping now at full elevator throw (engine idling), add until it does, then back off slightly from there until it doesn't again. If it is snapping now, subtract throw until it doesn't. Your reward for messing with this will be a plane that will give you no surprises on low rates. Makes this plane a complete ***** cat to land. -Al
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:47 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

Al,

I don't have the specs here in front of me, so I couldn't compare his against the recommended CG. Sounds like, from what you said, that maybe his is too far back?


Naw. I just shuffled out to my shop and checked. He's not too bad at 5", though the recommended is 5-1/4"

At any rate, he shouldn't be having any big problems there.




Jim
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:51 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

When you guys are testing how it snaps are you using full aileron rudder and elevator or just Rudder and Elevator. There seems to be differing opinions about it.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:00 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

Every plane is different. Try both ways and see which is the 'snappiest' for you.

Al's right - exponential is great stuff. You should know what it is you're trying to do, and watch how the surface responds ON THE BENCH once you've dialed any exponential in.

For instance; I use it to soften the rudder response in the center, so I don't kick the plane left or right when moving the throttle stick. That's important when landing.

I don't like much expo on my elevator. I like to 'feel' what's going on with that. Adjusting your throws works better there. Everything I've just said, of course, goes straight out the window when you're doing 3D flying. They have an entirely different set of criteria.

Jim
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:26 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Muttdog

When you guys are testing how it snaps are you using full aileron rudder and elevator or just Rudder and Elevator. There seems to be differing opinions about it.
What I'm talking about is what happens, usually unexpectedly at low speeds, and usually when you have full or nearly full up elevator on it. It's also seen often when a military type plane is pulled off the ground without enough flying speed? For the purposes of what I was talking about, there is no aileron or rudder travel in play. In fact, forget I said "snap" and stay with "dropping a wing" which it will do pretty violently. Make sure you are playing at 3 mistakes high!
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahicks


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Muttdog

When you guys are testing how it snaps are you using full aileron rudder and elevator or just Rudder and Elevator. There seems to be differing opinions about it.
What I'm talking about is what happens, usually unexpectedly at low speeds, and usually when you have full or nearly full up elevator on it. It's also seen often when a military type plane is pulled off the ground without enough flying speed? For the purposes of what I was talking about, there is no aileron or rudder travel in play. In fact, forget I said "snap" and stay with "dropping a wing" which it will do pretty violently. Make sure you are playing at 3 mistakes high!
Isn't that a stall?
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:35 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

Guys,
With a +45 expo she will jump all over the place. Futaba curve uses negative direction to flatten the curve, positive 45 will be a scary experience! I don't think there is anything else wrong -

Paul
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:49 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

Yes, it's a stall, and some stalls cause a snap, or torque-roll. Essentially, because the engine is pulling the plane into the air, but the air speed is not yet sufficient, it 'snaps' or torque-rolls, caused by the propeller turning the plane. The speed at which this occurs depends upon the weight of the plane, wingspan, engine power, prop size, etc.

The important part is the lesson. Get some airspeed before you take off, and you'll be able to control your plane.

The GSS is NOT prone to this at all. Look at my youtube video: Flying my Giant Super Sportster

I was flying in high winds, with a 30CC gasser, and jumping the GSS right off the ground. Admittedly, it had some usable airspeed from the wind.

~ Jim ~
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:47 PM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

OK, that'll work. "Stall" it is! As long as we're on the same page regarding what we're trying to avoid? If you set your elevator so it can't/won't do/cause that on low rates, with full up elevator with the engine idling, you might like it. I started setting my planes up like that a long time ago (when radios with dual rates came out?), and have been doing the same since. For what time it takes to find that point, and the exercises you'll get with your plane and radio doing it, it's worth a try? Should be worth a grin even if you decide the setup doesn't suit you....

With your ability to lock in on the airspeed just above stall (using full up elevator), with the plane headed into any kind of wind, might have you descending nearly vertically, with very little forward ground speed. A couple hundred rpm increase will check that descent, possibly leaving you motionless? Getting comfortable playing with this at altitude can possibly lead to landings with 6' roll outs, predictable tail wheel first landings, etc. Fun! An exercise in control... and this plane is great at it.....
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

I had a problem with the new cowl. The trim on it did not match or line up with the trim on the new covering job. I tried to leave a little red flash in the middle of the black, but the color differnce was just too great. Removing the red turned out to be a real mess, tried that on the old cowl.

The final trim will cover that red spot in the middle of the black trim. Pictures to follow as soon as I can get them developed and back from the lab.
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:21 PM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

Just so, Al.

The GSS is a great plane, and it's so versatile.

Fun with big, beautiful wings.

Jim
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:18 PM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

I should have mentioned that the elevator, though it's travel is set so it's not capable of causing a stall at lower speeds, still has plenty of authority at higher speeds. -Al
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:16 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

I finaly got all the trim on my plane painted. No mater what anyone says, I did it all by my myself. Ops, what is Clyde doing in that picture, all dressed up in his spray paining gear with the spray gun in his hands? Okay, I painted the plane all by myself, what are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:29 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

Can you guys recommend a better tail wheel assembly for this plane? Mine seems to bend the control rod from the rudder quite easily
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:28 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

You can get a CF one from several sources or this one from Tower works well. I had one on a Patty Wagstaff and it was tough as nails.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCLK9&P=0

These work fine as well:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXYXH4&P=0
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXYXH5&P=0
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:05 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

The Sullivan is pretty popular, works good as well:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXFV48&P=ML
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:18 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Muttdog

Can you guys recommend a better tail wheel assembly for this plane? Mine seems to bend the control rod from the rudder quite easily
I went through three tailwheels on my plane, the Sulivan type did not last a long time. My gallery has a picture of the type I'm using now. It has several thousand landings on it and is doing well.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:20 AM
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Default RE: New Giant GP Super Sportster!!!!!

+1 on the Sullivan. Wont win a beauty contest but is virtually indestructible.
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