BilleFly

If your NOT going to hang a DLE-20 on the nose; then the way NRad2000 did it
will probably sufice.
I get a bit carried away at times.

If you do glass then 3 or 4oz will sufice.

Also really only need to box in the sides since the top adds nearly zip
so just rin the glass 2 inches down the sides and across the front and forget about
the top & bottom.

One other suggestion would to place these on the tips, (( just for the innitial flights)) , till
things get worked out.
I use them perminatly to slow down the reaction time needed when
exiting a tumble.

Bille

Wrangler1

OK, thanks for the suggestion, i'll do that. At this moment i figuring how i'm going to install the wing tips plastic protectors to the wings, since they don't have a strong part to attach it.

Rgds. [&:]

nrad2000

I just saw the youtube video. From what I saw you need more speed. And it looked very tail heavy. Also, when you slow the plane down - if its like my plane - the tail drops. I come twice as high from normal on final and I use slight down elevator to keep the nose pointing down. What I do is right at Eye level I level off the plane and try to hold it there - eventually it will slow and glide down. Hold the plane couple inches off the ground until it stalls. No bouncing. Or crab it in - thats fun too.

BilleFly

Just use strapping tape.
Here is a bigger shot ..

Thise things make the alerons More effective at the tips; also they kinn the tip
vortex but at the expense of a bit of drag. That drag makes it REAL stable when
you Kill the power !!!

After you dile in your plane take them off, or like me just keep them,they can't
be seen from a galupping pony !

Bille

min$2crash

Ameyam, to directly answer your question about the 75AX:
Maynardrupp flew his with a 75AX, if you want to look back ~15-20 months in this thread. As I recall his descriptions, it will definitely fly perfectly well with the 75, but climbing out of hover will probably be marginal. My Phoenix has a 91 Saito 4 stroke and, at less than 7lbs dry, climbs out of hover, but not aggressively.
A 90 2 stroke will typically POP out of hover from some of the videos I've seen. If you were starting from scratch, I'd vote for the 90 2 stroke as the optimal 3D glow setup for hover climbout.
A 120 is fine, but I think its more than you need, and the added weight will make the plane heavier than the lightly built airframe wants to handle on hard landings, etc.
So you may want to use the 75 that you already have and ajust you target to enjoy it as more of a smooth "Sunday flier" than a 3D machine. Maynardrupp was able to do loops, etc just fine but found the vertical performance to be limited. He said that he flew the IMAC routines pretty well with his 75AX.

As for suggested changes, this plane does tend to drop its tail as it slows down to land when setup up with the CG per instructions. This is the first kit/ARF I ever built that flew decently inverted using the CG in the manual. Usually, I find myself having to move the CG back quite a bit to get neutral inverted performance. Cmoulder suggests a change in wing incidence which many have tried successfully. I found that a simple addition of spoilerons (both ailerons up 10mm from neutral) on a switch helps to speed up the landing and keep the nose down without any incidence changes to the wing.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10115080

If you want to fly nice, and its not too windy where you fly, keep it light.... here are a bunch of cheap lightweighting tricks for this plane.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_47...38/key_/tm.htm
Post #943

I ended up at 6 pounds 11 oz and wouldn't add a single ounce i fyou paid me to!

nolefan1961

to Wrangler1

After watching your video it reminded of the time when i had the ailerons sightly reflexed up. This caused the nose to pitch up when the plane slowed. It also made it very difficult to land. It did not take much.. only one full turn up from neutral. Everyone, who is having nose pitching up at low speeds, pay attention to this. I found that the problem was that the ailerons, the area next to the fuselodge especially, if the ailerons have a warp in them and appear neutral at the outter edge, then check them next to the fusealodge. if they reflex upward ever slightly, this area is in the prop wash and will act like up elevator when throttled back. Check for aileron linearity all the way down. Once this is determined to be good, then make sure that the ailerons are not even slightly reflexed up. Just to detirmine if this is the case, you might try adjusting the aileron clevis 1/2 turn down, increments, test fly it and see if it made a difference. This plane does ballance at 120mm. make certain of your measurement. it should put you between the wing tube and the front of the servo tray.. Another thing is that the manufacture should have a peice of wood infront of the fuel tank to prevent it from going all of the way to the fuselodge. It should be @ 2inches back from the firwall. I fly it with a GMS .76 and it flys just as good as my Supertigre .90 which I have run on it. both can swing the same size prop. I get longer runs with the super tigre though. The GMS .76 is good power for it. It swings a 14x5 and climbs vertically a long ways. Again, I cannot imphasize the aileron thing enough. If it acts tai.l heavy when balanced correctly, then I am certain that the ailerons are reflexed up near the fuselodge. Most likely a warp or bow in the aileron. This plane will fly very nicely, glide very nicely when everything is correct.

ameyam

I am setting up a Phoenix Extra 330 60-90 with a 120ax engine. Based on issues a collegue has with his Phoenix Yak 60" which is essentailly the same model, I was concerned regarding vibrations at idle. I was planning to use a Dubro anti-vibe beam mount instead on the stock. I have two of these- the 75-1.08 for 2c and the 80-90 for 4c. I am attaching a picture of the three here with.

Now the problem is that the original stock mount weighs 72g where as the 75-1.08 weighs 195g and the 80-90 4c weighs 215g. Thus both the replacements I was considering weigh significantly more. Keeping in mind that this is setup for 3D and I am already putting in a oversize and therefore heavier engine, which of these two should I use? Or should I stick with the original and bear with everything shaking (trust me, its not that bad, he only had problems with keeping the cowl screws in, rest is ok) at idle?

Ameyam

Wrangler1

Hi People.

I just finished all the jobs to my Extra, i repaired the main landing gear, that separate itself from the fuse. I used a 3layer hard plywood to reinforce the base, glued everything with 30 minutes expoxy and reinforce the base on the inside with some triangle glued to the base and fuselage. Since i have a CG problem on this plane, i removed the weights i put on the tail and moved forward the Rx battery until it was balanced. Also i cut some pieces of plywood to reinforced the area were the wings screw attach, since i saw some mark that these nylon bolts left on the fuselage balsa wood.

I balanced the plane at 120mm from the wings LE, it's a critical balance, since it will stay on each extreme position (tail Heavy or Nose Heavy) but if you level the plane, it will stay level.

Photos of everything explained attached.

nolefan1961

Wrangler

The repairs look good. I too broke the landing gear and 30 min epoxy was the ticket.. it never broke again even with some hard licks. The balance sounds good. My plane is balanced the same , level. My battery is in the same place as yours. As per my last post, make certain their is no warp in the ailerons. Mine were, and I had to use my heat gun to get it out.. make extra certain that the ailerons are neutral at both ends of the wings. Else, if they are neutral at tba tips but reflexes slightly up next to the fuse then the plane will act tail heavy on landings. Nice video and pictures. Post your next video so I can see how it flies.

Cpt Crash

My Feedback: (12)

I had major problems with stuff falling off my bird, so I got the Du-Bro anti-vibe mount. I like it; had to move the batt back to compensate, but the plane flies great. I haven't dropped a canopy or cowl screw so far with this setup. This past weekend had it out at Maloof and for the first time, I really just flew it out: loops, rolls, immelmans, split S's, Cuban 8's, it didn't sweat, performed beautifully, and when I rolled back in, everything was still attached. Nice.

Wrangler1

Hi i tried too to put that engine mount, but the one i had was small for the ASP .91 4 stroke engine installed, so i used the original mount, and so far no problems.
The one thing that is really giving me a hard time is the muffler deflector, this engine throws it away besides the slots that i made in the muffler so the deflector have something to grab. Is there another option that i can hook to the muffler that avoid the fuse to get the exhaust so direct?

skip1320

Anybody flying with just back two wing bolts?

Wrangler1

I'm not !!

nolefan1961

Cptcrash

Looks like you too are running a GMS 76. I am running the same. I had vibration problems as well, mufflers coming loose ect. The best solution for that engine was to run 10% nitro with a long glow plug with idle bar. Mine now runs super smooth with a standard mount. The vibration was from predetination.. increasing nitro increases the timing of the engine. A colder plug is needed, colder plugs do not idle as well, hence the added idle bar. A. OS #8 does not go far enough into the chamber placing it farther away from the fuel, thereby, delaying detination a bit. so, it will slow destination down, (retard timing) That is the same as running a colder plug than a #8, it also runs the risk of stripping the head where the glow plug scews in. GMS parts are impossible to find. Anyway, this will make the engine run smoothly with minimal vibration. And I have not spit a muffler since.

Cpt Crash

My Feedback: (12)

nolefan, I had a Fox glow plug with idle bar, and the engine ran fine, but it runs even better with the OS #8. It's silky smooth, with beautiful transition, better fuel economy, and a very slow, steady idle. I'll take how it's running now over how it used to. Spins an APC 14X5 effortlessly...

Also, when I reassembled the muffler, I flipped the plane on its back so I could put thread locker into the muffler bolt holes on the engine. Worked it in, attached the muffler, then put the plane back on its wheels and let it cure 24 hours. That seemed to work; it's on there tight and hasn't loosened up.

nolefan1961

Captcrash

Glad your engine runs fine. Mine also turns an APC 14x5 very well. I have used OS #8 and it worked fine until it stripped out the hole. After removing the head I could see that the plug did not go all of the way in. finding a head is impossible, so becareful. RTV also works well on the muffler bolts. I rebuilt the engine, piston, ring, bearings, and finally a head. I could not get the exact head so I bought a head for a Tower 61. I am using it with a lot of shims as it raised the compression. The owners manual recommends a long plug . So I am back to a long plug with idle bar.(Tower hobbies plug), it still swings a 14x5 well using 10% nitro. I had a lot of dead sticks before. Now, I and others who are familiar with my engine are amazed at how much smoother it runs. No dead sticks so far. I just thought I would share my experience with that engine. I love how it pulls. It pulls like my Super Tiger 90, which swings a 14x6.

As for the plane, both engines pull vertical very well. I love how the plane flies with this engine. Some have wondered if a 75 will pull this plane well, yes it does. I do not fly 3d so I don't know if these engine are strong.g enough for 3d but for sport aerobics they are both very good choices.

Mike

ameyam

Actually, I am already committed to the OS 120AX. Its over sized and that is why I worry about the vibration. The original stock mount is desighed for a 90 size engine and is also a bit fragile I am told. My collegue had not balanced his prop on the Yak, he was using with the stock stuff so may be the problem is there. We will balance his prop for tomorrow and see the results

Ameyam

cmoulder

It could be done but probably not a good idea. This is not because of the bolts potentially backing out - highly unlikely - but because the extra bolts help spread out the stress on the sides of the fuselage. As you can see, this is not a stoutly built model.

nolefan1961

Hey guys

I just wanted to share my canopy mod with you all. A cabinet latch with rollers and metal tang. Glue a square hard stock across the rear of the canopy opening.leaving room for the canopy tabs. Then screw the roller part of the latch to this. Then likewise, glue a square piece of hard wood across the canopy, screw the metal tang to this. When the two parts are aligned well it requires a lot of pull to release it. The latch cost .89 at Lowes. The canopy now clicks into place and stays there until you want to remove it. The other picture is of the first fuse broken during crash. the next picture is of fuse #2 taken today. Notice on the new fuse I did not cut out the holes for the canopy screws as I am using this latch.

skip1320

Well my wings stayed on with just two back bolts no problem,did you fly with hatch mod? looks good!

nolefan1961

Yes I have, no problem.

min$2crash

Once the wing is loaded, the bolts aren't doing much more than a pin would.... so one per wing is better than mediocre- i.e. I see your point.
BUUUUUUTTTT......
Twice now, I have actually had a wing bolt back out- where I was very certain I had snugged them up, but one rattled loose enough to fall out in flight.
That may be because I just barely snug them to avoid crushing the balsa locally. Regardless of why one backed out, on those two out of what must be 150-200 flights now, I sure was glad that I had TWO per side! That's just a heads up.... these bolts work-in significantly as they lose their flash lines, etc after 100-200 assembly events. Then they just about rattle into the nut! Not a problem if you really crank them in- but that crushes the fuse side and weakens it.

I now lockwire the bolts in... the factory bolt's tabs can be drilled at each corner to accept the wire.
I leave the lockwire attached to one bolt permanently and thread it to the other after wing assy.
For a long day's flying, I lockwire bolt to bolt on each side.
For a post-work quickie flight or two, I just lock the back bolts to the closest cross member roughly.

Don't cost much, can't hurt! Just my two bucks (inflated 2 cents!).
Wheels Down,
Dave.

nolefan1961

Can you post some photos of the lock wire?

ameyam

For those who have replaced the stock mount: I see many have use the Dubro anti-vibe beam mounts. I have two of these- a 55-75 2c size and a 90-1.08 4c size. My engine is a 120ax. The 90-1.08 though a lot closer to my engine requirement ,is a lot heavier (original is 82g where the dubro is 215g) . Should I use it regardless?

Ameyam

Cpt Crash

My Feedback: (12)

Ameyam,

It just depends on how you plan to fly your plane, and how long you want to have it around. If you really want max performance regardless of what happens to the airframe, then use the factory mount and have another airframe standing by. The 1.20 is a big engine for this very light airframe, and it won't be hard to bump up against the limits of what it can take. Adding an anti-vibe mount to an already heavy setup won't make anything better. I'd keep it as light as possible, reinforce the firewall and just go for it. Manage that throttle carefully, have the trash bag of depression standing by, and don't get too attached to the plane...