ameyam

I rave re-covered models before but not a lot of experience there. My issue is that I dont have the monolote of the same blue colour. Putting in bright yellow at the wing root will be yuck and I am not sure that I will be able to do as good a job. Also, it will put my airplane out of service for atleasts couple of weeks which is bad in that I already havent flown sufficiently this season (ours starts in October).

In a month or so (thats just a couple of weekends away, by the way) I will be migrating to a better ARF. Its almost decided bar taking the card out to pay, I just need to decide between the locally available Goldwing Sbach 300 / Edge or my Funtana 125 or getting a Aeroworks Extra300 30cc. The main problem is with getting one that can take a 20cc engine. Once I migrate, I and strip this airplane down and re-cover it from the beginning.

Ameyam

tande

My Feedback: (48)

Are you POSITIVE the wing tube is not to long!!!.....therefore not allowing the wings to pull/up tight against the fuze?....I ask, because I had one of these with a wing/tube that WAS to long, causing these same issues.....FWIW.....

ameyam

Will check the wingtube. Done anyone have any suggestion on which my next airplane should be

Ameyam

rmsingh

If you're comfortable with the Extra.... Try this phoenixmodel.com/Default.aspx
The Sbach 342 from Phoenix Models. Looks fantastic.

ameyam

Problem is with getting it to India. Other models I have listed are available

Ameya

eldad007

is there someone here that have a video of this airplane with supertigre g75 in action?

ameyam

Hi,

I am posting a video of the play I have in the wings. I dont think its too much. Still, I am going to run some epoxy with filler inside the wing around the wing tube. Please suggest if I still need to open the wing. Note that vibrating sound is from the servo extensions that I didnt bother to tie down while making the video

May be the jinking was due to the wind

http://youtu.be/gMmYhccVa3s

Ameyam

BilleFly

DUDE !! ??

The ammount of energy you expelled so-far ; into NOT ripping off the
covering, and Fixing it properly -
YOU "COULD - HAVE" had it FINISHED by now !!!

So Quit procrastinating & just go DO the Job, then fly it because :
THIS is getting OLD , it's like you'd Rather get a new airplane than just
fix the one you have ...

Please Don't get Pissed ; because i rather Like My Extra, and as legnthy as this
thread has become, it would appear that , so do a Lot of other people !!

Bille

min$2crash

Ameya, it appears from the video, that you have the original version of the kit, where the removeable canopy ends at the front of the wing. On many of those, the aluminum wing tube is a little too long, and needs about 6-10 mm removed from the tube's length so that the wings can be right against the fuselage with no extra force required. It is better that the tube be too short than too long. If you do not put the wing bolts in, can you push both wings against the fuselage with light force or is there a gap? I know that my original version needed the wing tube shorter by ~8mm in order to seat the wing without bending the fuselage sides when tightening the wing bolts. My wing tube is now 485mm long.
You may want to check that.
Second idea: if you put the aluminum wing tube into just one wing and support the wing between your knees while seated (knees against the spar to avoid damage to ribs), can you feel the wing tube looseness at all? The tube should be snug, not rattle or move freely. The heavy engine and epoxy reinforcements that you are using + 10g manouvers may have loosened the attachment of the matching tube inside the wing or worn the fit between the aluminum and matching cardboard tube in the wing. This is the most likely source of any jinking that you feel. The wing can be held on with just one bolt and still shouldn't jink if the tubes in the wing are firmly mounted and the clearance between wing socket and aluminum tube is nice and tight.
There were some posts back in 2009 on this thread showing that the shear webs above and below the wing tube socket(visible thru wing root access holes) had their grain going the wrong way. The shear webs between spars normally have vertical grain orientation for best effectiveness. That being said, I think that these pieces are fine as is- since they are only 6mm thick between the wing tube and spar. Wing tubes interrupt the shear web, and become part of the shear webbing in these tube-and-socket designs. Its too bad that Phoenix didn't use a proper phenolic wing socket here- because phenolic is much stiffer and would function better as part of the wing's shear webbing.

I am flying ~150 flights at 3.1 kg and have not seen severe jinking yet on my Phoenix Extra. If I put one wing held flat on the floor, top side down, and install the wing tube, I get 1mm vertical free play at the free end of the tube when it is fully engaged in the (crappy cardboard) wing socket. Certainly looser than when I first got the plane, but acceptable IMHO. That 1mm at 458mm is only 0.1 degrees of angle.

If you decide to dig into the wing at all, by removing the covering, you may want to buy new wing tubes. There are some very nice and light ones available as a set that probably use thinner & stronger aluminum or even carbon fiber elements. This tube from Phoenix weighs 2.6 oz or 70g. At TNT landing gear (www.tntlandinggear.com) you can get a Carbon Fiber wing tube that is twice as long and weighs less! In other words, their 30" 1.7 oz tube (WTC-750) would weigh just 1.08 oz (32.5g) at 485mm long- a 40g "bolt on" weight savings. They also sell the matching phenolic socket tube SOP-750-C. This would add up to $53. Or, for $20 you could get their aluminum & phenolic socket Ø3/4" x 24" long set: http://www.tntlandinggear.com/store/shop/wing_tubes.htm 24" WT-274 / WT-275
My tube measures 0.750" (exactly 3/4") on the OD. Actually it measures 0.748-0.752" as you rotate it, as it is slightly out of round due to some post crash straigtening!

Now you have ME "thinking of jinking", Ameya. That's a new word for me but I understand your description. I am going to try a layer of thin metallic aluminum tape (for furnace ducting, the good stuff not "Duck tape") to tighten my wing tube to socket clearance a bit. Just a strip at the inboard and outboard bearing points in the wing should do it. If I do too much here, I may get the tube stuck- it does need a tiny bit of clearance for assembly.

RICKSTUBBZ

min2,

I am surprised to see you still posting here. I dropped in out of the blue to see how this thread was doing. Much to my surprise there is another nearly 40 pages since my last bookmark.[X(]

You know, I bought another one of these (Pheonix Extras) about a year or so ago. Tower had them on sale and with a discount and free shipping I think I picked it up for a 100 bucks while buying some other stuff. It still sits in the box. I have no idea when I'll dig it out and throw the thing together. I don't like the newer short cowls. I'll use the cowl off my 1st one when I do put it together.

My Son still flies his. We built a landing gear for his out of some 6061 aluminim flat bar. Same stuff you can pick up at the home improvement stores. A hack saw, file and vise is all you need to make one. Well, a drill bit would kind of help to get a few strategically located holes put in it.

ameyam

Ok, BilleFly, I get your point. But I am putting a lot more energy in finding a replacement and am coming to the conclusion that its quite difficult to get a 20cc airplane. Most of the good ones are 30cc and too long (I cant transport more than 60").

After I posted the video, I noticed that the inside of the wing between the wingtube and wood had a little bit of gap. Like I said, I ran 5min epoxy into this. Also I noticed that one wing had the wingtube sit loose. I was just a little bit so I ran god old duct tape over the wingtube lengthwise and it fits more snugly now.

I will check the length of the wingtube also.

I was to fly the airplane today but problems at the field (its a horse rase track, there were races today) meant I couldnt. I will check it next week. Hopefully by then I will also have a proper succession plan for this airplane

BilleFly, note one thing. This was a testbed for the gas setup- cheap and expendable. I picked it up old stock as well and at a discounted rate. I dont want to expend too much effort on repairing it. Good monokote just isint available locally. I have stuff I ordered from Tower and its too expensive and yellow in colour. I just want to ensure that the airplane is sturdy enough to last till I manage to get a successor which is quickly beginning to look like the Reactor Bipe

Ameyam

min$2crash

Rickstubbz....you're back! Glad to hear you got another. Just slap this one together and fly the snot out of er!
I have been stopping back in periodically like you just did... I had one of the first of these at the 100+ member club and get a lot of questions so I like to keep current. Besides, when a thread gets this long, a lot of old issues resurface so I can point them to stuff that you, maynardrupp, cmoulder etc. shared back in 2009. Good to hear from you. And I am glad to hear that your son is still flying his.
No doubt that is why you got the itch to buy another one! Cheers and wheels down, buddy. I hope that some of the beatiful art that you did back in 2009 is transferrable to the new plane, like maybe the tailfeathers made it OK? I remember the checkered patterns that you had like the old Uproar scheme looke awesome. I only wish I had such covering skills. If you are going to mod this next one, consider the TNT carbon tube I just referred Ameyam to above. It would cost $43 and save 1.5 oz. I am not certain that it would slide in, but you could check that out with TNT. The aluminum tube on my kit/plane is dead on .750", ±0.002" due to out of roundness per my micrometer.

Ameyam, glad to hear you found some low hanging fruit on your wing jinking. Too bad about the stupid horse racing....!

min$2crash

Ameyam, another idea for you.
I just had one of the nuts in the wing fall out and had to drill a hole per rickstubbz instructions in 2009.
attached picture will show what I did. I made the hole 5/8" diameter because that was just enough to get my finger in there to push the plastic T-nut back into place.
You can feel the plastic T-nut better on the rear wing mounting hole to understand its size and shape. The T-nut is 25 x 12mm on the back, so you can drill a hole whose edge is as close as 13mm from the bolt hole centerline without hitting the T-nut. If you drill a large enough hole, you should be able to coat the OUTSIDE of the cardboard tube with thin CA a few times and harden it up.
Of course, this is easier on the back side of the tube, where there is already a large hole that lets the wing servo wire run out. I would suggest that you do both front and rear of the tube with thin CA to strengthen it for that heavier engine that you are using.... and keep your landings gentle!

I am attaching a photo of my two wing roots so that you can see the hole that I added. My hole was smaller and further forward that you would want for access to the forward side of the tube.
My goal was to get far enough away from the wing tube that my finger would fit for manipulating the T-nut back into place. The material there is two layers totalling 5mm, one 2.5mm layer of the harder plywood that we see on the outside, then another 2.5mm layer of balsa on the inside, so don't push too hard on the drill or knife after the first 2mm.

And don't forget to check that your wing tube isn't too long. Mine was. Both wings should slide right up tight to the fuselage at the same time without the bolts. If they don't, you are stressing both the wing and the fuselage sides for no reason or gain.

EDIT: here is a link to the Post #956 that Rickstubbz did back in '09 with a much bigger hole 7/8" = 22mm:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_47...39/key_/tm.htm

If you move that hole so that its closest edge is 15mm from the T-nut/wing bolt mounting centerline, you should be fine up to ~Ø25mm and have plenty of access to see the front of the tube for CA hardening the tube, and maybe even add a little epoxy where the tube meets the spars. If you have 30 Minute epoxy, maybe just use that for everything, coating the tube and attaching it to the wing spars. 30 minute epoxy is thinner, and slower drying, so it will soak into the cardboard better than 5 or 15 minute versions.

BilleFly

A Biplane is a GOOD way to go ; LOTS of wing aria for the span !!!
At $339.99 why is the Reactor SO expensive ?

This one may work also ; it's 59.4 inches long, so ya got 0.6" to spair !
It's for an Engine Size of : .91–1.25 2- or 4-stroke
http://www.atlantahobby.com/Store/pc...s-30p11822.htm

Bille

ameyam

min$2crash

I will have a look at that. One thing I could do is attach the wings temporarily to the fuse without the wing tube. If they are flush, then I know the wing tube is longer. Note that I mixes the epoxy with alcohol when I applied from behind the wing tube sleeve in the wing. When I added the alcohol to the 5 min epoxy mix with microballoon filler, I added too much and the mix had the consistency of cooking oil. I knew it would thicken within a few minutes so I applied two coats. I applied on one wing then kept it aside and applied on the second. By the time that was done, the first was dry and I applied a second coat. I am sure a lot of epoxy flowed around the wing tube sleeve and that must have hardened it quite a bit

BilleFly

The Reactor Bipe is expensive- But there is a catch. I usually buy these from the Scratch&dent section. I have two Bipes, both missing canopy magnets or something small. And I bought them before the price rise. Call that foresight or planning or just luck at being at the right place at the right time. The older of the two was bought just about an year ago. I have it double sealed (with duct tape both on the box and on the outer carboard carton) so that moisture doesnt get in (much) and damage the airplane. You could say I am in the ideal position to 'progress' to the bipe. The only decision is whether or not to put the DLE20 on it or go with the originally intended FS91SII or the FS110A (which was also bought scratch&dent, by the way)

Ameyam

tande

My Feedback: (48)

Simply slide both wings ALL THE WAY onto the wing/tube, minus the fuze, measure the distance between both wing roots, (at the wing/tube) call this Dimension "A"....... Now slide a tape measure through the fuze wing/tube/socket & measure the fuze width at this point, call this Dimension "B"...... Dimension "B" should be greater than Dimension "A"........

Wrangler1

Hi people, since mylast post i ordered a few landing gears to decide wich one will be better. I'll go with the Carbon Fibre, also since the plane made a belly landing i found a few ribs broken, so i decided to reinfored the fuselage and also the firewall, just to be on the safe side.

Attached photos of the on going repair.

jstanton

My Feedback: (14)

Let us know how the Carbon Fiber gear works out. I know the Dubro gear works very well on mine. i two reinforced the landing gear area. I did have to trim the dubro gear some to get it to fit but it has never failed me again

ameyam

I am not too sure regarding the Dubro gear. In fact, if the gear deforms on landing its a good thing- it absorbed some of the shock of the landing. However, if it keeps deforming, even after a good landing, thats a nuisance.

I think CF will be worse off in that it will shatter after a less than perfect landing, so I am told. I had obtained these but didnt use them for this reason

Ameyam

ameyam

I am not too sure regarding the Dubro gear. In fact, if the gear deforms on landing its a good thing- it absorbed some of the shock of the landing. However, if it keeps deforming, even after a good landing, thats a nuisance.

I think CF will be worse off in that it will shatter after a less than perfect landing, so I am told. I had obtained these but didnt use them for this reason

Ameyam

dmoody19

My Feedback: (24)

Have to agree with Ameyam on the landing gear. IF you strengthen it to the point that there is no give left you will destroy the airframe. I am wondering how hard you guys are landing to get the gear messed up? Are these occasional hard landings or do you just have issues all the time> I ask because after 100 plus flights and no hard impacts my original gear is just like new minus grass stains etc. It has never warped or twisted. On the other hand other planes I have with dubro gear have occasional harder landings and the airframe suffers stress cracks because of it I believe.


__________________________________________________ _________________

BilleFly

ME Too !!
Is it a consentration thing , or something else ?
This may help :
I run 80% expo on the elevator, 50% on the alerons, and 30% on the rudder
ALL the time.

On Low rates i cut the Travel adjust on everything, down from 125% to 75%

Hope this helps !

Bille

woodycubamo

I agree with Moody and Billie. Have had no issues with the landing gear. As I have said before, mine is pretty well box stock, weighs in at 7 lbs. I fly mine with a shallow decent with a little power on landing and have no problem. It just kisses the ground. I had one dead stick and I kept the speed up and landed with no problem. I personally think if you fly your final approach too steep with power off with this airplane you will be wishing you hadn't because steep approaches will mean hard landings and bent gear. It's kind of funny, a lot of guys never learn how to fly. They get a few planes, start into 3D but every landing is a controlled crash. Every time I go to the field I take my tower trainer and shoot a bunch of touch and goes, then get out my aerobatic model and shoot touch and goes. Makes for wonderful flying skills. I consider myself an intermediate flyer and am not in to 3D. Just like to do classic aerobatics.
Woody

BilleFly

Me too on the classic Acro !
Me too on the warm-up with another machine first ; only mine is a T-rex heli and i find
that after hovering just (1) battery, i'm almost, "Relieved" to get on my Extra 330s !!!
(( i kinda stink at flying a heli))

One Very important point i left-out on my set-up for landing :
After i hit Low-rate
I then hit the Landing switch, & the ailerons go down 10-12deg and the Rudder
get's cuppled to the ailerons. Unless you dile in differencial with the ailerons down
the plane will fly Really weard , cuppeling in the Ruder will take-care if that.
That set-up, really helps Me !

Bille

Wrangler1

Hello People, i just finish the covering of the plane and also the installation of the new landing gear.
Uffff, What a Job !!!!. To be my first airplane covering i think it is fine, but looking from another angle, i think i transformed an Extra 330S in to a sukhoy (because of the color combination ) jejejeje.

I want opinions and suggestions.

Best Rgds.